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Is it right for daughters - 12/17/2009 9:10:47 AM   
beowulf1234


Posts: 13
Joined: 10/16/2009
Status: offline 		My former Mistress of whom I served on a 24\7 basis was also going to be my wife. She has 2 daughters one 20 years of age and the other 15 years old. She tries instill in them about Female led relationships. She tells them men need to be harnessed and used for their advancement and happiness in life. This was reinforced by my service and submission. They were never exposed to kink. But they did see me kneel, remove her shoes and kiss her feet when she came home.They viewed me eating out of my slave dish. I did all the cleaning, cooking, the wash and any and all domestics for the entire family. They hear her discipline me but also see how it is for the male to make life easier for a Woman. All chores are non existant to them. When we're all together watching tv, I always sit at her feet. She explained that I would be taking her lastname instead of the opposite. I never posed an opinion of this but I always wondered if it were wrong. I would appreciate some feedback
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RE: Is it right for daughters - 12/17/2009 9:46:02 AM   
Miyani


Posts: 248
Joined: 12/4/2007
Status: offline 		I would never expose My children to kink, and yes, her children were exposed to kink. You kissing her feet is not a typical vanilla interaction, I assure you. As is you eating out of your "slave dish," which I imagine is a bowl on the floor?

As for raising her daughters to believe in female supremacy, I think she's setting them up for some very tough realizations, later on down the line. And probably a great deal of unhappiness. I see nothing wrong with teaching young'uns that multiple relationship styles exist - should I spawn, they'll be learning about ethical non-monogamy, in addition to more typical relationship structures. They will also, when they are old enough, be learning about power exchange, and what it means to some people. BUT, teaching young women that all men are there to serve, and they'll never have to lift a finger? I imagine they'll be very lonely, and nigh unemployable. Heaven help them when they first have a male boss.

(in reply to beowulf1234)
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RE: Is it right for daughters - 12/17/2009 9:48:26 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		I don't see anything wrong with teaching the offspring of different types of relationships.  That includes female led, poly, homosexual, or any other such thing.  The bit about them having no responsibility in the house or being able to overhear the kinkier parts of play doesn't sit well with Me.  It really is possible to find a healthier middle ground.

Mine were raised around some of the activities that you describe.  It wasn't unusual for them to see My boy kneel when I came home, remove My shoes, or to sit at My feet.  I don't see that as any different than vanilla people who will kiss each other hello in the kitchen or offer to rub their spouse's feet after a long day at work.  They are still signs of the D/s that are reinforcing a positive expression.  Little things like My plate being made up at the dinner table first are no different than it used to be when the male's plate was made first in a 1950's household.

There is a difference between what is proper in front of the offspring and what isn't.  In My opinion, I wouldn't have gone as far as your prior Dominant.


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RE: Is it right for daughters - 12/17/2009 10:01:30 AM   
Tinkerer


Posts: 136
Joined: 7/18/2008
Status: offline 		There is nothing wrong with a female lead relationship, nor teaching your sons or daughters about it. I think that both partners need to support each other in life, especially in the role of husband/wife. "Using" is unhealthy, and leads to the decay of a relationship rather than the strengthening of it. One party should never be considered less in value than the other. "Submissive" is something completely different, as one can be submissive to the other but still valued. Just ask any dominant that loves their sub.

Should men be harnessed and used for advancement? Absolutely! But for the advancement of the marriage, with both partners harnessed together. I enjoy making my lady's life easier. I love pleasing her and making her happy, but if she wasn't willing to give back to the relationship in her own ways I would never consider her for a life partner. She returns my submission and effort in pleasing her with her leadership, caring, and discipline in keeping me on the right path.

< Message edited by Tinkerer -- 12/17/2009 10:03:48 AM >

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RE: Is it right for daughters - 12/17/2009 10:23:57 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: beowulf1234
They hear her discipline me but also see how it is for the male to make life easier for a Woman.


I'm with Miyani on this.  This is exposing kink to others who are no part of it - at least one of whom is a minor, too.  In general I shudder at the thought of it and would steer clear of it - except, just possibly, where those onlookers involved are mature enough to know that your view isn't the 'truth' for more than a small minority of people. 

You may think you were teaching them about female-led relationships; but, actually, they may well have been drawing all kinds of lessons about relationships about which you knew nothing and over which you can have had no control. 

< Message edited by PeonForHer -- 12/17/2009 10:25:21 AM >

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RE: Is it right for daughters - 12/17/2009 10:30:30 AM   
tsatske


Posts: 2037
Joined: 3/9/2007
From: Louisville, KY
Status: offline 		This question asks if it is okay for a 15 year old to be exposed to all manner of clothed kink, and the sounds of the remainder of kink interaction. this is clearly a question about interactions with a minor. I certainly hope that this is a doomed thread

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RE: Is it right for daughters - 12/17/2009 1:00:18 PM   
Ladynslave


Posts: 376
Joined: 7/30/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: beowulf1234

My former Mistress of whom I served on a 24\7 basis was also going to be my wife. She has 2 daughters one 20 years of age and the other 15 years old. She tries instill in them about Female led relationships. She tells them men need to be harnessed and used for their advancement and happiness in life. This was reinforced by my service and submission. They were never exposed to kink. But they did see me kneel, remove her shoes and kiss her feet when she came home.They viewed me eating out of my slave dish. I did all the cleaning, cooking, the wash and any and all domestics for the entire family. They hear her discipline me but also see how it is for the male to make life easier for a Woman. All chores are non existant to them. When we're all together watching tv, I always sit at her feet. She explained that I would be taking her lastname instead of the opposite. I never posed an opinion of this but I always wondered if it were wrong. I would appreciate some feedback


I would say it was very wrong for her to expose a minor child to such things.  And yes, allowing her child to witness you kneeling, kissing her feet, eating out of a slave dish, and hearing the sounds of discipline WAS exposing them to kink.  While my son does see that my slave does things to make my life easier (dishes, laundry, general cleaning, getting me a drink), he never sees anything beyond vanilla nor does he hear it.  Children learn by the example set and if my son can have a healthy vanilla relationship where he helps his wife more than the typical man, that would be the ideal.  On the other hand, if he becomes a happy submissive, more power to him, if he's happy, I'm happy.  But I would NEVER have my slave eat out of a slave dish or kneel at my feet in front of him.  The very idea is repulsive and, in my mind at least, borderline child abuse.

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RE: Is it right for daughters - 12/17/2009 1:16:30 PM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		When my daughter was very young, I directed a shelter and when taking it over from the prior director and to clean everything up, I moved us all in. My daughter saw me dressed up, with about fifty keys on a ring and with a clip board a lot of the time. She also saw how I had to be in control, directing people and projects and in her eyes... THE BOSS!

That child watched it all, but didn't have the maturity to fully understand what she was seeing. She got herself some keys, a clip board and went about trying to boss her friends. It took over a year to break her of that. She simply didn't have the means to understand what I did and to do it properly, and therefore, learned some very bad social skills and not how to be happy just being who she was.

Now she is a very dominant young woman. We discuss things now... but before now... no way! She could have been submissive like her one brother or switch like her other brother. What I taught was, find who you are and then find someone you wish to share who you are with. My way is my way.

I learned early on... a child/teen learns from example and my example had to be tempered so that they could find their own way and I tried to show them or point out different types of relationships and communication styles.

So... I would say my opinion of the op's situation... it was a bit extreem and may be setting the kids up for some real life lessons/pain they might not have needed.

< Message edited by Lockit -- 12/17/2009 1:39:48 PM >

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RE: Is it right for daughters - 12/17/2009 1:31:18 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I don't see anything wrong with teaching the offspring of different types of relationships.  That includes female led, poly, homosexual, or any other such thing.  The bit about them having no responsibility in the house or being able to overhear the kinkier parts of play doesn't sit well with Me.  It really is possible to find a healthier middle ground.

Mine were raised around some of the activities that you describe.  It wasn't unusual for them to see My boy kneel when I came home, remove My shoes, or to sit at My feet.  I don't see that as any different than vanilla people who will kiss each other hello in the kitchen or offer to rub their spouse's feet after a long day at work.  They are still signs of the D/s that are reinforcing a positive expression.  Little things like My plate being made up at the dinner table first are no different than it used to be when the male's plate was made first in a 1950's household.

There is a difference between what is proper in front of the offspring and what isn't.  In My opinion, I wouldn't have gone as far as your prior Dominant.



LadyPact has already expressed an opinion on the situation that fits my thoughts.


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RE: Is it right for daughters - 12/17/2009 1:58:06 PM   
MistressOfGa


Posts: 2929
Status: offline 		I will just say, that I was raised in a kink house and everything I know about being a Domina I learned directly from watching my mother and her slaves. I was witness to everything you mentioned in your OP and there is nothing wrong with me. I do not suscribe to female or male supremacy though. I chose not to when I was old enough to do my own thinking and make my own choices.  In time, when her daughters choose their own paths, they may or may not follow that of their mothers. In any case, as adults, they will have to make their own choices as to what they believe in and what they don't.
 
MoGa

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RE: Is it right for daughters - 12/17/2009 5:06:32 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: beowulf1234
They were never exposed to kink. But they did see me kneel, remove her shoes and kiss her feet when she came home.  They viewed me eating out of my slave dish.


I've just read that section again.  Priceless.  On reflection, I don't think any other comment is necessary.


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RE: Is it right for daughters - 12/17/2009 6:28:46 PM   
bibiswitch


Posts: 27
Joined: 12/13/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: beowulf1234
She tries instill in them


this is disturbing

poor kids...

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RE: Is it right for daughters - 12/17/2009 6:52:31 PM   
servantforuse


Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		It is also very disturbing to me...

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RE: Is it right for daughters - 12/17/2009 8:44:34 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

ORIGINAL: beowulf1234
They were never exposed to kink. But they did see me kneel, remove her shoes and kiss her feet when she came home.  They viewed me eating out of my slave dish.


I've just read that section again.  Priceless.  On reflection, I don't think any other comment is necessary.



Oh the irony!!

- LA

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RE: Is it right for daughters - 12/17/2009 9:06:50 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline 		FR-

I don't believe in but one supremecy and it isn't a man's or a woman's. I believe that children should learn age appropriate things regarding all kinds of relationships. There are ways in which any submissive can show it without it looking "unusual" and eating out of a slave dish just ain't on the list.

These girls will not be in a position to "choose" what they want to believe in, they have only seen one way. I shudder to think how they will tell any potential boyfriend that he should sit at their feet or spend all of his money for their enjoyment. Where I come from there is a word for that and it isn't domme or domina.

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RE: Is it right for daughters - 12/18/2009 5:32:34 AM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline 		Aside from the kink question, there is the issue of dependency.  Any woman (or man for that matter) today needs to be able to fend for themselves.  That means having a job-worthy  marketable ability and also being able to cook and clean for themselves on a survival level.



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The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

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RE: Is it right for daughters - 12/18/2009 5:35:58 AM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: beowulf1234

My former Mistress of whom I served on a 24\7 basis was also going to be my wife. She has 2 daughters one 20 years of age and the other 15 years old. She tries instill in them about Female led relationships. She tells them men need to be harnessed and used for their advancement and happiness in life. This was reinforced by my service and submission. They were never exposed to kink. But they did see me kneel, remove her shoes and kiss her feet when she came home.They viewed me eating out of my slave dish. I did all the cleaning, cooking, the wash and any and all domestics for the entire family. They hear her discipline me but also see how it is for the male to make life easier for a Woman. All chores are non existant to them. When we're all together watching tv, I always sit at her feet. She explained that I would be taking her lastname instead of the opposite. I never posed an opinion of this but I always wondered if it were wrong. I would appreciate some feedback


This is where I have the first problem. In not teaching them how to do household chores, she's crippling them and making them dependent on having someone around to do them. I also have a problem with teaching the sexism that one gender is better than the other. If you were going to be her husband, I hope you were going to be a better parent to the two than that. There is nothing wrong with fem dom relationships but saying that men need to be harnessed is no better than saying women need to be controlled.

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Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

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RE: Is it right for daughters - 12/18/2009 5:38:25 AM   
dreamerdreaming


Posts: 2839
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: beowulf1234

My former Mistress of whom I served on a 24\7 basis was also going to be my wife. She has 2 daughters one 20 years of age and the other 15 years old. She tries instill in them about Female led relationships. She tells them men need to be harnessed and used for their advancement and happiness in life. This was reinforced by my service and submission. They were never exposed to kink. But they did see me kneel, remove her shoes and kiss her feet when she came home.They viewed me eating out of my slave dish. I did all the cleaning, cooking, the wash and any and all domestics for the entire family. They hear her discipline me but also see how it is for the male to make life easier for a Woman. All chores are non existant to them. When we're all together watching tv, I always sit at her feet. She explained that I would be taking her lastname instead of the opposite. I never posed an opinion of this but I always wondered if it were wrong. I would appreciate some feedback


This is disturbingly wrong. The most disturbing parts of it are multiple:
1) That it happened at all.
2) That it continued over some significant period of time. (How long, OP?How many years?)
3) That two adults perpetrated this on two (apparently at the time) minors.
4) That the perps (as evidenced by the OP) have no idea how to behave appropriately around minors who are in their charge, as evidenced by the OP's amazingly clueless insistence that the kids were never exposed to kink.

OP: If you would not have done these things around the kids' friends, or any other minors, then you likely knew on some level that what you were doing was wrong. Why you did not listen to this faint inner voice of reason- if you did have it- is beyond me. Minors are by definition unable to give consent. You were perpetrating your kink nonconsensually onto minors, by conducting obvious kink activities in their presence. The fact that you are so clueless about this just floors me. Did you do any of the things I bolded above, when the kids' friends were over?

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RE: Is it right for daughters - 12/18/2009 7:56:51 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		Using fast reply......

I have been thinking about this thread and while the described situation is definitely not something I can support, I find it interesting to consider that for hundreds of years, there was very similar lifestyles with reverse gender and we often hear/read it referred to, as "the good old days" and most people don't really think much about it. Yet with the female as the dominant and the male as the submissive/service role, it is considered 'exposing minors to kink'. Odd.


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: Is it right for daughters - 12/18/2009 8:51:39 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline 		Yet with the female as the dominant and the male as the submissive/service role, it is considered 'exposing minors to kink'.

I don't think women commonly knelt and kissed men's feet or ate out of slave bowls - and all in front of children - even in those 'good old days', LaT . . .

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