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RE: abuse vs ownership - 12/23/2009 9:00:42 PM

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Thats great. Thats your experience.

The OP has an "extensive history of abuse". Despite the often proclaimed "community" we are not all special.

These waters are filled with sharks looking for a tasty morsel to abuse. Anyone who wades in better be damn sure of themselves. Or at least have their eyes wide open.

There is more to life than cumming.

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(in reply to osf)

RE: abuse vs ownership - 12/23/2009 9:03:40 PM

osf

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quote:

These waters are filled with sharks looking for a tasty morsel to abuse. Anyone who wades in better be damn sure of themselves. Or at least have their eyes wide open.

i agree

(in reply to Jeffff)

RE: abuse vs ownership - 12/23/2009 9:05:33 PM

osf

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by all means see a professional if she wants but afterward her desires are still going to be there and she''l have to get on with life

(in reply to osf)

RE: abuse vs ownership - 12/23/2009 9:05:36 PM

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Ok thats enough serious shit.

I am off to find a thread to derail!

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(in reply to Jeffff)

RE: abuse vs ownership - 12/23/2009 9:10:45 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

Thats great. Thats your experience.

The OP has an "extensive history of abuse". Despite the often proclaimed "community" we are not all special.

These waters are filled with sharks looking for a tasty morsel to abuse. Anyone who wades in better be damn sure of themselves. Or at least have their eyes wide open.

There is more to life than cumming.

Yes, and some abusers 'know' who is more vulnerable because they are good at picking up on 'signals' the abused person is often not even aware she/he is sending out.

Also, although 'letting go' of the past is suggested on page 1, unless some serious 'work' is done by the abused person, this cannot happen. Trauma is often re-experienced and is hard to verbalize. Letting go is no option. This only becomes possible after starting a process of recovery and healing. Length and depth of this process are different for everyone.

Unfortunately, that many 'counsellors' are not doing a good job at helping the above process along does not mean that it can't be done.

_____________________________

There are no rules, there is only compassion.

Simple religion:
There is no need for temples,
No need for complicated philosophies
My brain and my heart are my temples
My philosophy is kindness (DL)

'There's a fire burning in my heart'

(in reply to Jeffff)

RE: abuse vs ownership - 12/23/2009 9:11:00 PM

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From: Louisville, KY
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Dark steven did make absolutely great points.
Only, remeber, those things that are so obvious from the outside are somehow invisable to many abused women.
They feel that their abuser is in control - of everything, so he must be in control of himself.
they beleive that they cause it, that the abuse is the result of their actions, and they are to blame.
they believe that this man honeslty loves them, it's just that they do such horrible things that make him do these things.

they do not see that abusive men are cowards taking out their frustrations on anyone weaker.
The kind of Dominant man who deserves to be served, in a healthy relationship, are seldom, in my experience, cowards.

To contrast more, the physical discipline in a consentual relationship, with abuse:
was there calm talk, before the discipline, explaining what was done wrong, how to corrector aviod it, and what the discipline would consist of?
was the discipline done in a mood of love, and without anger - just as Dark Steven said.
Was it brought up to browbeat you with later, to win arguements and prove you are a bad person - or, when the discipline was over, was the subject over, as well?

Just a few more of the many obvious differences.

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(in reply to Jeffff)

RE: abuse vs ownership - 12/23/2009 9:27:32 PM

osf

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quote:

ORIGINAL: happylittlepet

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

Thats great. Thats your experience.

The OP has an "extensive history of abuse". Despite the often proclaimed "community" we are not all special.

These waters are filled with sharks looking for a tasty morsel to abuse. Anyone who wades in better be damn sure of themselves. Or at least have their eyes wide open.

There is more to life than cumming.

Yes, and some abusers 'know' who is more vulnerable because they are good at picking up on 'signals' the abused person is often not even aware she/he is sending out.

Also, although 'letting go' of the past is suggested on page 1, unless some serious 'work' is done by the abused person, this cannot happen. Trauma is often re-experienced and is hard to verbalize. Letting go is no option. This only becomes possible after starting a process of recovery and healing. Length and depth of this process are different for everyone.

Unfortunately, that many 'counsellors' are not doing a good job at helping the above process along does not mean that it can't be done.

bluntly speaking

the world sucks

and most therapists will treat her as a nut case once they find out what her sexual desires are and treat that as something to be cured

unless she finds a kink aware one

lots of us have lots of baggage just trying to cope with our aberrant desires and it takes time but most of us make it

and i believe a good relationship will do more than therapy

but thats the catch and i realize it

years ago i met a young girl in a club, hammer jacks in Baltimore at first i didn't know how young she was but she was interested in d/s and expressed an interest in it to me but when i found out she was 15, it was strictly hands off

anyway i later saw her in DC in a strip bar stripping and on drugs

i sincerely believe she would have been better off with me even at 15 than how she turned out

the moral is that suppressing her needs may do her far more harm than having a good and accepting outlet

my 2 1/2 cents

but she's an adult free to take or reject any advice given here

(in reply to happylittlepet)

RE: abuse vs ownership - 12/23/2009 9:46:28 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

bluntly speaking

the world sucks

Not really. But an abused person most often had no choice.

and most therapists will treat her as a nut case once they find out what her sexual desires are and treat that as something to be cured

Yes, but let's not talk about the OP as a 'she', as if 'she' is not present.

unless she finds a kink aware one

Good point, I only know that I can't afford one. Also, a therapist can help correct, listen, support, etc. In the end, the person seeking therapy has to go the process of healing/recovery alone, on a day by day basis, not once a week for 1 hour at a time.

lots of us have lots of baggage just trying to cope with our aberrant desires and it takes time but most of us make it

Coping with desires is something very different from coping with the effects of extensive abuse.

and i believe a good relationship will do more than therapy

I would suggest a relationship that (initially) does not involve BDSM/sex. So that the person who needs healing gets not more confused.

but thats the catch and i realize it

Yes, a lot of people do not want to start a relationship with someone who has defense systems, or is very sensitive, or who has 'issues', e.g. with trust. Can't really blame them. To find a good partner is in itself a very lucky thing, let alone if there are complicating factors.

years ago i met a young girl in a club, hammer jacks in Baltimore at first i didn't know how young she was but she was interested in d/s and expressed an interest in it to me but when i found out she was 15, it was strictly hands off

anyway i later saw her in DC in a strip bar stripping and on drugs

i sincerely believe she would have been better off with me even at 15 than how she turned out

Yes, more as a father figure than anything else.

the moral is that suppressing her needs may do her far more harm than having a good and accepting outlet

I still suggest that the OP finds answers to her questions first, and starts a healing process before giving in to 'her needs'.

my 2 1/2 cents

but she's an adult free to take or reject any advice given here

I will say this as this was applicable to me: long term, mostly emotional, abuse did not really leave me as 'an adult free to take ... advice'. I learned from trial and error.

I wish the OP well.

Edited for typos.

< Message edited by happylittlepet -- 12/23/2009 9:49:04 PM >

_____________________________

There are no rules, there is only compassion.

Simple religion:
There is no need for temples,
No need for complicated philosophies
My brain and my heart are my temples
My philosophy is kindness (DL)

'There's a fire burning in my heart'

(in reply to osf)

RE: abuse vs ownership - 12/23/2009 9:57:49 PM

osf

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i guess from what i read we mostly agree?

and at the time i was far from a father figure

(in reply to happylittlepet)

RE: abuse vs ownership - 12/23/2009 11:07:20 PM

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FR:

I'm actually going to dissuade you from figuring out the "whys" for any purpose other than objective introspection.

What you need to do is decide on your personal definitions of "abuse" and "being owned" to where you can isolate what separates the two. It doesn't matter why you end up wanting to be owned or how that feeling came about, it matters only that you are honest with yourself about wanting it and about the fact that it fulfills you. From there, you surrender to it.

Trying to fight something natural to you because you can draw inferences or correlations to it from a negative event in your past is only going to serve to confuse you and keep you running in circles, ever paranoid of whether you are just succumbing to psychosis.

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I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
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(in reply to osf)

RE: abuse vs ownership - 12/23/2009 11:10:43 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: happylittlepet

I would suggest a relationship that (initially) does not involve BDSM/sex. So that the person who needs healing gets not more confused.

I find that to be a counterproductive suggestion. Either she withdraws from relationships period until she can fundamentally understand what she wants and needs enough to seek it out without some twisted personal shame or guilt following her coattails or she jumps in headlong, being honest about the fact that she's actively working to getting to that mental state as she goes.

< Message edited by NihilusZero -- 12/23/2009 11:11:10 PM >

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

CM Sex God du Jour
CM Hall Monitor

(in reply to happylittlepet)

RE: abuse vs ownership - 12/23/2009 11:28:42 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

i guess from what i read we mostly agree?

It seems so.

_____________________________

There are no rules, there is only compassion.

Simple religion:
There is no need for temples,
No need for complicated philosophies
My brain and my heart are my temples
My philosophy is kindness (DL)

'There's a fire burning in my heart'

(in reply to osf)

RE: abuse vs ownership - 12/23/2009 11:30:39 PM

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FR-

As many have said seeking professional help before getting into any relationship is the best thing you can do. You need to not just recognize that you have a history of extensive abuse, but you have to deal with how it made you feel, how it made you think and how it makes you think and feel now and for the future. You may or may not have an interest in being owned or being part of the BDSM community when all is said and done. Either way, it's ok. What's important is that you take the time to process how you can move forward.

As a couple others have also said, these boards, while great for advice, are not even a close replacement for a professional and neither would a dominant be, unless he happened to also be a therapist.

Good luck.

(in reply to NihilusZero)

RE: abuse vs ownership - 12/23/2009 11:56:44 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: happylittlepet

and i believe a good relationship will do more than therapy

I would suggest a relationship that (initially) does not involve BDSM/sex. So that the person who needs healing gets not more confused.

I find that to be a counterproductive suggestion. Either she withdraws from relationships period until she can fundamentally understand what she wants and needs enough to seek it out without some twisted personal shame or guilt following her coattails or she jumps in headlong, being honest about the fact that she's actively working to getting to that mental state as she goes.

Let's keep that quote in context.

A good friend who one is not in an intimate relationship with is also able to support without sexual intimacy/BDSM.

After abuse there are often boundary issues where it is not clear what one wants for oneself and what one is willing to do to please someone else. A D/s or M/s relationship is based on that desire of the s to please the dominant partner. This is why it is so easy for a victim of abuse to be revictimized if this is not understood. If one is lucky enough to find a partner who is willing to work out those boundary problems, this will lead to greater trust and understanding. One can work part of this out by oneself, but actually practicing it is a totally different ball game.

If the dominant partner is willing to give the recovering submissive partner this space, it will show the submissive that her wellbeing is more important to the dominant than getting all his needs met, and this will help her regain her trust, while also giving the desired closeness to a partner.

I am sure there are many variations on this scenario.

Also, I do not agree with this:

quote:

FR:

I'm actually going to dissuade you from figuring out the "whys" for any purpose other than objective introspection.

What you need to do is decide on your personal definitions of "abuse" and "being owned" to where you can isolate what separates the two. It doesn't matter why you end up wanting to be owned or how that feeling came about, it matters only that you are honest with yourself about wanting it and about the fact that it fulfills you. From there, you surrender to it.

Trying to fight something natural to you because you can draw inferences or correlations to it from a negative event in your past is only going to serve to confuse you and keep you running in circles, ever paranoid of whether you are just succumbing to psychosis.

There are many abuse victims who cope unhealthily in that they seek re-exposure to the abuse, and they do not know how to stop that cycle. To me, it was very important that I figured out why I have my submissive tendencies (to say the least): because something is broken in me because of the abuse or because this is naturally who I am.

We do not know whether the OP has a natural inclination to be submissive or whether she seeks re-exposure in a hopefully safer setting.

GM stated that

quote:

OP:
I think that the abuse needs to be dealt with first then you can explore sexual proclivity and kinks..

The REASON:?

One must be absolutey clear on the whys of it..
If someone tells me and I always ask..that there has been abuse ..I OFTEN will NOT engage in any BDSM with them..
I do not want to trigger anything from before and make it worse.

_____________________________

There are no rules, there is only compassion.

Simple religion:
There is no need for temples,
No need for complicated philosophies
My brain and my heart are my temples
My philosophy is kindness (DL)

'There's a fire burning in my heart'

(in reply to NihilusZero)

RE: abuse vs ownership - 12/24/2009 1:05:53 AM

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fast reply...

i have an extensive history of abuse (mental, physical, and sexual - more sexual than any other) and i want to be owned and i have come to the conclusion for myself, that most of my abuse happened because the abusers took advantage of my submissive nature...

i also did some self medicating and i am now an addict - with the possibility to many things, but am in recovery for drugs and alcohol...i wouldn't bring this up except for the fact that if it wasn't for that recovery i wouldn't have gotten to that conclusion for myself with the help of my sponsor...

my most helpful "therapy" came in the form of working the 12 steps (and you can do that without being an addict or an alcoholic, the only wrong way is to do it by yourself though)...especially the 4th step where i took, amongst other things, a sexual inventory and an abuse inventory and i looked at my part in things and find where the line was between my actions and their actions and it was usually a lot less my "fault" than i thought...i also looked at where my true desires were and if i had been "abused" into them...BUT...i could not have done that 4th step without having worked steps 1, 2 and 3 with my sponsor first...and then after i finished my 4th step, continuing on with the rest of them for me

i have been in therapy on and off for 14 years now, including with a kink-friendly therapist, but nothing helped me more than working the 12 steps for all areas of my life...i do have to say that i have a kink-friendly sponsor and that is not always an easy thing to find depending on where you live...

just my experience....

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(in reply to happylittlepet)

RE: abuse vs ownership - 12/24/2009 1:34:48 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Screaming

I am new to this lifestyle and I have a very extensive abuse histroy. I often worry that my desire to be ownwed means I secretly enjoyed the abuse. Other times i'm very uren there is a difference.....experience anyone ?

1) Abuse is subjective... one person's abuse is another person's passion.

2) Being "owned" does not, ipso facto, equate to "abuse"

3) My suggestion... be as OPEN and HONEST with a perspective dominant about your past. Should you elect to move forward with another, do so slooooooooooooowly. If after some time and trust, you think certain elements of YOU define as "abuse" may turn you on, discuss and try these things with your partner -- with the FULL KNOWLEDGE THAT YOU CAN SAFE-WORD OUT AT ANY TIME.

*Note: If your past is causing anxiety and/or is preventing you from having a relationship, then it's absolutely necessary that you seek professional help/counseling to heal first, prior to seeking another. If not, then simply ensure all you become involved with are FULLY aware of your past.

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RE: abuse vs ownership - 12/24/2009 3:34:56 AM

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Finding meaning in suffering is the road to healing.

And remember that when you turn a negative experience into a tool that brings meaning to your life, you are taking the best kind of revenge on your abuser.

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(in reply to MasterSlaveLA)

RE: abuse vs ownership - 12/24/2009 3:42:33 AM

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Greetings all....

One of the things I have found both talking to many submissive women and especially those who want to be someone's slave is that the common thread in their backgrounds is abuse. That means physical, mental and sexual in some combination of one, two or all three. There are exceptions but they are just that, exceptions. I, and others, have come to the conclusion that is it not that they are submissive because of the abuse in all cases (some, yes), but that their abusers targeted them because they have tend to have an extreme submissive nature. It is the nature of a predator to sense prey and to attack those who they sense (even unconsciously) as prey. Anyone who is an abuser will be a predator to some extent. They will be looking for prey even if they have an otherwise weak personality.

Please note that what I said above is a generalization and based on years of talking and reading about the subject. It is not the result of any scientific study. There are exceptions to it but in general anyone with a strong submissive personality will be abused to some extent as they are growing up and in their adult lives. Their need to please and serve others is strong enough that they will do or permit just about anything if it pleases someone else.

Be well all....

Malkinius

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(in reply to MasterSlaveLA)

RE: abuse vs ownership - 12/24/2009 4:42:43 AM

elleX

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Screaming,
i beleive our need to be owned and disciplined to my point is an expression of our eager to please ,our need to belong and to relate to someone ,,,
Maybe that need is stronger than the average women,, who know
but what worries me is that you wont indulge yourself because of your desire ,, i think you are at risk of putting yourself down and damaging your selfrespect if you dont come to a positive view of your need

I will say it now if french,, because i want to be sure i wrote what i wanted to say ,, and i welcome anybody that will correct me
* Screaming , je crois que notre besoin d'apparatenance et d'etre disciplinée est une expression de notre besoin de plaire,d'etre en lien ,avec une autre personne,, Il s'agit peut etre d'un besoin plus grand que la moyenne des femmes , ,, qui sait
ce qui m'inquiete surtout c'est que tu ne vas pas te laisser de chance , , que tu risque de te rabaisser et diminuer ton estime de toi ,, si tu n'arrives pas a avoir une image positive de tes besoins
voila

(in reply to Screaming)

RE: abuse vs ownership - 12/24/2009 5:03:38 AM

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quote:

1) Abuse is subjective... one person's abuse is another person's passion.

abuse is abuse passion is passion

< Message edited by Justme696 -- 12/24/2009 5:04:00 AM >

(in reply to elleX)

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