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RE: abuse vs ownership - 12/24/2009 7:39:29 PM

MasterSlaveLA

Posts: 3991
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696

quote:

1) Abuse is subjective... one person's abuse is another person's passion.

abuse is abuse passion is passion

Ummm... no. What YOU might consider "abuse", another may actually DESIRE. Ever heard of a "Masochist"... "Pain Slut"... etc???

< Message edited by MasterSlaveLA -- 12/24/2009 7:40:59 PM >

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RE: abuse vs ownership - 12/25/2009 6:10:33 AM

subangi

Posts: 544
Joined: 5/11/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Screaming

i have done that group this is my graduation present to myself

I hope you have given yourself time after that to let it all sink in, and put your personal life in perspective before sharing it with others. Healthy self esteem is very important in any aspect of life. I wish you well.

(in reply to Screaming)

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RE: abuse vs ownership - 12/25/2009 7:33:29 AM

Screaming

Posts: 12
Joined: 12/23/2009
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Thank you. You are kind. I am learning not jumping. I an being cautious and slow. You have helped thank you.

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RE: abuse vs ownership - 12/27/2009 5:18:51 PM

Falkenstein

Posts: 187
Joined: 7/22/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: happylittlepet

quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: happylittlepet

and i believe a good relationship will do more than therapy

I would suggest a relationship that (initially) does not involve BDSM/sex. So that the person who needs healing gets not more confused.

I find that to be a counterproductive suggestion. Either she withdraws from relationships period until she can fundamentally understand what she wants and needs enough to seek it out without some twisted personal shame or guilt following her coattails or she jumps in headlong, being honest about the fact that she's actively working to getting to that mental state as she goes.

Let's keep that quote in context.

A good friend who one is not in an intimate relationship with is also able to support without sexual intimacy/BDSM.

After abuse there are often boundary issues where it is not clear what one wants for oneself and what one is willing to do to please someone else. A D/s or M/s relationship is based on that desire of the s to please the dominant partner. This is why it is so easy for a victim of abuse to be revictimized if this is not understood. If one is lucky enough to find a partner who is willing to work out those boundary problems, this will lead to greater trust and understanding. One can work part of this out by oneself, but actually practicing it is a totally different ball game.

If the dominant partner is willing to give the recovering submissive partner this space, it will show the submissive that her wellbeing is more important to the dominant than getting all his needs met, and this will help her regain her trust, while also giving the desired closeness to a partner.

I am sure there are many variations on this scenario.

Also, I do not agree with this:

quote:

FR:

I'm actually going to dissuade you from figuring out the "whys" for any purpose other than objective introspection.

What you need to do is decide on your personal definitions of "abuse" and "being owned" to where you can isolate what separates the two. It doesn't matter why you end up wanting to be owned or how that feeling came about, it matters only that you are honest with yourself about wanting it and about the fact that it fulfills you. From there, you surrender to it.

Trying to fight something natural to you because you can draw inferences or correlations to it from a negative event in your past is only going to serve to confuse you and keep you running in circles, ever paranoid of whether you are just succumbing to psychosis.

There are many abuse victims who cope unhealthily in that they seek re-exposure to the abuse, and they do not know how to stop that cycle. To me, it was very important that I figured out why I have my submissive tendencies (to say the least): because something is broken in me because of the abuse or because this is naturally who I am.

We do not know whether the OP has a natural inclination to be submissive or whether she seeks re-exposure in a hopefully safer setting.

GM stated that

quote:

OP:
I think that the abuse needs to be dealt with first then you can explore sexual proclivity and kinks..

The REASON:?

One must be absolutey clear on the whys of it..
If someone tells me and I always ask..that there has been abuse ..I OFTEN will NOT engage in any BDSM with them..
I do not want to trigger anything from before and make it worse.

I would like to add a practical, very candid, dominant point of view to the excellent analysis and thoughtful advices of happylittlepet and GM.

If I were the new boyfriend/dominant of Screaming, I would want to explore the bondaries of our relationship, i.e. what gives her pleasure and not, what is hurting her and her ability to live as a independent person or not. The last thing I want is her to say amen to whatever I propose: I need her to state, indicate, whatever her personal preferences, fantasies, disgust etc. are.

Recently, I had to explain to a sub that "non" is a commonly used word in French, and if she did not like the sound of it, she could also say "merde" to me. Thus, slowly we established together that she was a very moderate sub, and she was utterly relieved to see that I am a rather moderate dominant. I am doing kitchen table psychology here, but I suppose that she was saying yes to almost any idea I put on the table because she felt it necessary to not sink the relationship or wanted it for some unhealthy past-related reason.

As for my plans to keep her as a milked cowgirl in my mad-doctor Frankenstein Castle, we are discussing whether to get them through the US Senate, or through the European Union parlement. But we have made progress in our decision making since we created a paritary commission to find out which one is the slowest ;-)

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Produceth good, whilst ever scheming ill.

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RE: abuse vs ownership - 12/29/2009 4:11:06 PM

NovelApproach

Posts: 150
Joined: 3/25/2007
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Psychologist, abuse counselor, and Domina weighing in here:

The biggest difference between abuse and WIITWD, is that abuse is pain/humiliation/meanness on the giver's terms, whereas What We Do is the same stuff done on the receiver's terms. In an abusive situation, one has no say in what is going to happen to them, one cannot say "stop" and expect the hurt to end. In our lifestyle (ideally, anyway), the bottom can say "you can slap me, but don't call me names" or "you can hit me with that cane, but please don't hit my face or breasts" and have those limits respected. We have safewords, and any top worth their leather will stop and talk it out the moment the bottom uses it.

It may be that your history has something to do with your desires and it may be that this is just the way you're wired. At this point, you'll probably never know. I agree with many others that you should find a kink-friendly therapist to talk to, and I also agree that you should be very careful in choosing your top. If possible, try to have a kinky friend present if you're playing in public, and on-call for advice/outside perspective if you enter into a relationship. I'd also advise that you disclose your past to your top, and make sure you have good communication about it. Be aware of your own state of mind, and remember that your own health and safety always has to come first. There may be days when you don't feel up to bottoming, or when something that happens when you play reminds you of your past and kills the mood. This is fine. Just make sure that you let your top know. If you ever feel like you can't trust your top, you're probably with the wrong partner.

For many abuse survivors, BDSM can be a very powerful way of confronting what happened to them, of owning their abuse, and that sometimes reliving what happened in a safe, controlled environment can help to process what happened. For others, BDSM just feels good.

I wish you the best of luck and health.

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Sure, I'll Dungeon Master for you. Do you like Eberron? ...oh. That kind of dungeon.

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RE: abuse vs ownership - 12/30/2009 2:56:44 AM

WendyMorning

Posts: 24
Joined: 10/27/2009
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thanks for saying what you did...I likethis thread...I am with a Vanilla man ...and he thinks any talk of even spanking is something he cant do...but I refuse to be closed about who I am and who my friends are...he seems curious ...but just not educated..your statement helped me alot. I landed in this situation due to unforseen circumstances..but am realizing it helpes me practice my submissive skills ...so I am using this opportunity as a learning experience and respect him as well..The other side .....of course ..is what im trying to adress...is that he thinks that this alll abuse...but it isnt...I know what abuse is (and have experienced it most of my life)...and there is a differance...being submissive is not a bad thing ...when you are with a real man who wants the best for you and is honest. I hope my situation grows but even so as I said its good practice for me and self discipline.
Wendy

(in reply to tsatske)

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RE: abuse vs ownership - 12/30/2009 7:45:28 AM

WinsomeDefiance

Posts: 6719
Joined: 8/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Screaming

I am new to this lifestyle and I have a very extensive abuse histroy. I often worry that my desire to be ownwed means I secretly enjoyed the abuse. Other times i'm very uren there is a difference.....experience anyone ?

One of the things I first found so compelling about aspects of BDSM, was that it allowed me a way to 'relive' my past abuse, but in a controlled way, where I called the shots, and I scripted the outcome. Whether this choice is cognitive, or subconscious, it isn't uncommon. It isnt' always helpful either, and it can do more harm than good. I only share what I did with you, so that you understand that you are not alone, and your fears and concerns are valid. If possible, please do seek professional help.

WinD

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RE: abuse vs ownership - 12/30/2009 8:49:05 AM

sexyred1

Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Malkinius

Greetings all....

One of the things I have found both talking to many submissive women and especially those who want to be someone's slave is that the common thread in their backgrounds is abuse. That means physical, mental and sexual in some combination of one, two or all three. There are exceptions but they are just that, exceptions. I, and others, have come to the conclusion that is it not that they are submissive because of the abuse in all cases (some, yes), but that their abusers targeted them because they have tend to have an extreme submissive nature. It is the nature of a predator to sense prey and to attack those who they sense (even unconsciously) as prey. Anyone who is an abuser will be a predator to some extent. They will be looking for prey even if they have an otherwise weak personality.

Please note that what I said above is a generalization and based on years of talking and reading about the subject. It is not the result of any scientific study. There are exceptions to it but in general anyone with a strong submissive personality will be abused to some extent as they are growing up and in their adult lives. Their need to please and serve others is strong enough that they will do or permit just about anything if it pleases someone else.

Be well all....

Malkinius

I really disagree with this. I realize you said there were exceptions, but you seem to indicate that the exceptions are very rare.

It is a common misconception that subs/slaves are this way because of some form of abuse or become abused because of their "nature".

I know many, many subs/slaves who do not fit this mold, myself included. I have never been abused and these statements do nothing but perpetuate the misconceptions about this lifestyle.

I maintain that abuse and ownership or participation in any aspect of D/s are totally different concepts. If abuse has taken place and someone wishes to work through it by the use of D/s, fine, but I really think the concepts need to remain separate.

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RE: abuse vs ownership - 12/30/2009 6:43:22 PM

drtygrl

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Joined: 4/8/2008
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this is a very common problem- and you should not feel any guilt about it. From a psychological type view- it's very natural to enter an abusive relationship following a history of abuse. When you associate love and affection with pain and suffering it becomes a natural progression. In some regards, a BDSM relationship can be the 'healthy alternative' to a vanilla abusive relationship

Abuse is a serious issue that should be discussed with your D and your therapist- but don't worry- many have been there and found freedom in it's embrace

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RE: abuse vs ownership - 12/31/2009 12:39:45 AM

slavejale

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Joined: 9/22/2007
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Greetings to All and all

i was actually abused by my child's father (well soon to be child lol). it was more emotional abuse than physical...and it was financially abusive as well. Though, im not going to blame it all on him because i am grown and well, i should have did some things different. I knew he didnt have a job or what not but I started talking to him and hoped to encourage him to do better. He pretended to do better for a while, then it came. He tried to take my away from my best friend, by saying she didnt really like me, or she was jealous of me..this and that. He said since he is my Man i should listen to him more often and not my Mom or my sisters. He never could support his own cigarette habit and my mom would give me money and he would use emotional tactics to pressure me to buy him cigarettes. I guess at one point i thought it was going to change, so i dealt with it and tried to change it from different angles. Unfortunately, it didnt work. However, when i got pregnant, somewhere inside of me, came to courage to put it all to an end. I was bringing a child into this world and i had to be stable.

So i politely told him, that my Mom and my sisters AND my best friend will ALWAYS be apart of my life because when/if you decide to leave, then they will still be with me. They help me out and everything and you can offer nothing. I told him i tried to work with him but he just seemed complacent in his own little world. I also told him, i could not support his habits any longer because i have to support my child. He did get upset but hell, i didnt care anymore. I was about to change for the better not the worse.

Anyways in relation to the lifestyle, I do find myself weary now of being with someone. Even in vanilla relationships, i keep everybody at a distance. Especially because I am having a child, and a female child at that. I do feel as though, it has caused some type of damage and trust issues. I havent really persued a relationship after him, so i cannot give a definite. Also I probably wont persue one until my child gets about one year old or something.

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