RE: Misogyny and BDSM (Full Version)

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Roselaure -> RE: Misogyny and BDSM (12/29/2009 5:49:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucienne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad
take the time to learn more about the differences between androculture and gynoculture, and go cure some ignorance.


I... what the fuck? "Androculture" and "gynoculture"? Where'd that shit come from?



Gynoculture.  It's the test you get when you have a yeast infection.




ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: Misogyny and BDSM (12/29/2009 5:50:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

Actualy I see very little genuine misogyny. It usualy isn't tolerated.



Jeff


I see a lot of it, but being a fucking female probably makes me more prone to seeing it more vividly - you know how we're so detail-orientated and unable to see the woods for the tree because we have smaller brains than you guys.

That's what being a natural slave will do for ya. *Sigh*.


Plus, you're French.

You, uh... you knew that, right?




sexyred1 -> RE: Misogyny and BDSM (12/29/2009 5:59:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

ORIGINAL: Loki45

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika
Oh gosh, not all women are ladies. I agree with you there!


You're definitely the first woman I've met that did. The rest take some righteous, defensive stance when I say that.


I know many women who share my opinion.

Regardless, it isn't always easy to be a lady or a gentleman. I try to be a Lady as often as I can. I have my moments where I'm less of one of course.

- LA


Add to that, there is a time and place to be a lady/not a lady and a gentleman/not a gentleman. As multifaceted creatures, both sexes should embrace their duality. [:)]




Aswad -> RE: Misogyny and BDSM (12/29/2009 6:04:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

No it isn't. You can't keep a whole gender accountable for the actions of a portion of it.


That does not address the first part, i.e. that it is more understandable, in the sense that it is easier to see how it can arise. And people routinely assign blame in an incorrect manner, frequently on the basis of overgeneralization, so in the sense that being human is an excuse for anything, it is a smaller flaw to be biased against men (who have a track record that does lend itself to such overgeneralizations) than to be biased against women (who have not had as much opportunity to build such a track record, at least not yet).

You seem to have missed the gist of the post, though.

Health,
al-Aswad.




Aswad -> RE: Misogyny and BDSM (12/29/2009 6:08:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Loki45

Your post was well-written, articulate and very well put-together overall.


Thanks.

quote:

However, in the words of "Bowen" from "Dragonheart" -- "I no longer try to change the world, dragon. I just try to get by in it."


In the words of someone else entirely, "all it takes for evil to win, is for good men to do nothing."

Apropos, the Gorean mindset does not embrace resignation.

Health,
al-Aswad.




LadyAngelika -> RE: Misogyny and BDSM (12/29/2009 6:09:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

No it isn't. You can't keep a whole gender accountable for the actions of a portion of it.


That does not address the first part, i.e. that it is more understandable, in the sense that it is easier to see how it can arise. And people routinely assign blame in an incorrect manner, frequently on the basis of overgeneralization, so in the sense that being human is an excuse for anything, it is a smaller flaw to be biased against men (who have a track record that does lend itself to such overgeneralizations) than to be biased against women (who have not had as much opportunity to build such a track record, at least not yet).

You seem to have missed the gist of the post, though.

Health,
al-Aswad.


No, I got your point. I just don't agree with it. I don't see any excuse of any degree for gender bias.

- LA




LadyAngelika -> RE: Misogyny and BDSM (12/29/2009 6:10:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

ORIGINAL: Loki45

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika
Oh gosh, not all women are ladies. I agree with you there!


You're definitely the first woman I've met that did. The rest take some righteous, defensive stance when I say that.


I know many women who share my opinion.

Regardless, it isn't always easy to be a lady or a gentleman. I try to be a Lady as often as I can. I have my moments where I'm less of one of course.

- LA


Add to that, there is a time and place to be a lady/not a lady and a gentleman/not a gentleman. As multifaceted creatures, both sexes should embrace their duality. [:)]


I'm no model lady. A model's just an imitation of the real thing.

- Mae West




Loki45 -> RE: Misogyny and BDSM (12/29/2009 6:21:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad
In the words of someone else entirely, "all it takes for evil to win, is for good men to do nothing."

Apropos, the Gorean mindset does not embrace resignation.


I like that quote too. But it's important to realize that some things you can change and the rest you just have to say "fuck it."




Aswad -> RE: Misogyny and BDSM (12/29/2009 6:25:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucienne

I... what the fuck? "Androculture" and "gynoculture"? Where'd that shit come from?


It's not one culture and one language, taught to both genders. It's two cultures and two languages, with similarities, and the norm is to be raised into one of those cultures, speaking the language that fits that culture. Socialization is the main route by which one or the other is assimilated. The culture that most men assimilate is the androculture. The culture that most women assimilate is the gynoculture. The two are not interchangeable, though they are sufficiently compatible to allow most interactions to be passable, kind of like how someone from a hood area in the US might interact with the nobility in the UK and not necessarily bungle everything. There will be friction, though, unless someone reaches out to teach the differences.

A woman who has assimilated androculture, like my dear, exhibits many of the same behaviors as men, espouses a lot of the same values, has just as much trouble as a man in relating to women, and is likely to be confused with a man in a forum that doesn't list gender, or to be considered "one of the guys" at a predominantly male social event. The ways a woman would normally build social bonds are lost on a woman that has assimilated androculture. And vice versa.

Realizing that one is dealing with two seperate, valid cultures with superficial similarities is an important step in having better relations with each other. Imagine if you were to try to befriend someone from an oriental country, or the middle east, and insisted on interacting on your own culture's terms at all times. That certainly wouldn't give optimal results. If, on the other hand, both take the time to understand the differences, good results will be had.

An example from the author I mentioned is that men generally don't look too much at each other while speaking, and tend to avoid eye contact, whereas women will tend to keep their eyes on each other's faces. If the two speak with no understanding of this, the man may appear to be disinterested, or to not be paying attention, while the woman may be seen as overly intent and potentially confrontational, and neither is the case for either party.

Some of this stuff flies out the window in a D/s or M/s context, but other things remain.

Health,
al-Aswad.




Jeffff -> RE: Misogyny and BDSM (12/29/2009 6:27:40 PM)

I would like to take a moment and thank the OP.

He gave us a thread that wasn't started by osf

Jeff




Aileen1968 -> RE: Misogyny and BDSM (12/29/2009 6:28:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

I would like to take a moment and thank the OP.

He gave us a thread that wasn't started by osf

Jeff


When I saw misogyny in the thread title I immediately thought that osf had another profile....




domiguy -> RE: Misogyny and BDSM (12/29/2009 6:29:15 PM)

Just cause you rattle a few cunts' cages the next thing ya know you are a fucking mysogynist.

I just wish they would rest their yiddle heads and think before responding.




Aswad -> RE: Misogyny and BDSM (12/29/2009 6:31:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

No, I got your point. I just don't agree with it. I don't see any excuse of any degree for gender bias.


Which was pretty close to my point, LA...

I just advocated a pragmatic approach to improving things, rather than wishful thinking about how things shouldn't be wrong. Obviously, things shouldn't be wrong. But they are, at times. And that makes it useful to distinguish degrees, though that wasn't the thrust of my post. The thrust was that when things are wrong, the reasonable thing is to do something about it. The rest was mostly commentary on the whys and wherefores of the problem, and the hows of doing something about it.

Health,
al-Aswad.




Aswad -> RE: Misogyny and BDSM (12/29/2009 6:33:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Loki45

I like that quote too. But it's important to realize that some things you can change and the rest you just have to say "fuck it."


Picking your battles isn't about choosing which ones to fight.

It's about choosing which one to fight next.

Health,
al-Aswad.




LadyAngelika -> RE: Misogyny and BDSM (12/29/2009 6:35:29 PM)

quote:

Which was pretty close to my point, LA...


Ok... well I guess I had a hard time seeing the similarities in the way you chose to explain it.

- LA




kittinSol -> RE: Misogyny and BDSM (12/29/2009 6:40:29 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kimveri


SEE why I'm feelin' like ya hate me?? ;-D




Since it's now been established that there is no hate, I'm glad we can move on from here :-) .

Incidentally, there was a thread on feminism a while back (in the "Ask a Mistress" forum, no less), where some Gor believers (men, mostly) felt not qualms whatsoever about berating dominant women for their opinions. It was fucking abysmal: I mean, these are the very people that cry "foul!" each time a supposed breach of protocol occurs on their planet.

The double standard was gobsmacking: thank fuck it's only the Internet :-) .




domiguy -> RE: Misogyny and BDSM (12/29/2009 6:48:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kimveri


SEE why I'm feelin' like ya hate me?? ;-D




Since it's now been established that there is no hate, I'm glad we can move on from here :-) .

Incidentally, there was a thread on feminism a while back (in the "Ask a Mistress" forum, no less), where some Gor believers (men, mostly) felt not qualms whatsoever about berating dominant women for their opinions. It was fucking abysmal: I mean, these are the very people that cry "foul!" each time a supposed breach of protocol occurs on their planet.

The double standard was gobsmacking: thank fuck it's only the Internet :-) .


Who taught you to use such big words?....All of those multi syllabic words  streaming out of a cute lil' thing like you?

I think not.

Go clean the kitchen and wash the dishes.




WinsomeDefiance -> RE: Misogyny and BDSM (12/29/2009 6:50:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

I seldom see a word more misused than "misogyny".



Me either. 




domiguy -> RE: Misogyny and BDSM (12/29/2009 6:52:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

I seldom see a word more misused than "misogyny".



Me either. 


nice jugs.




Level -> RE: Misogyny and BDSM (12/29/2009 6:56:29 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

I seldom see a word more misused than "misogyny".



Me either. 


It's used too often as a tool to make men/males shut up, or be afraid, or to become ostracized.




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