ElanSubdued
Posts: 1511
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Lady Angelika and Everyone,
The questions in the OP are ones I've asked myself many times. Similarly, while I don't wish to derail the thread, I'll point out that submissive men are also overly-fetishized, but in a different way. We're often objectified and pigeon-holed. We're corralled, cattle-style (ostensibly due to the supply versus demand imbalance). We're frequently treated with indifference because, once again, we're often made aware that there are many "waiting in the wings" to replace us. Broadening the perspective, I'll suggest the underlying issue isn't one applicable only to the domain of dommes and male submissives. Rather, I think kinksters, in general, tend to over-fetishize one another, regardless of whether cognizant or not. To me, dealing with the broader question is the cornerstone of how I approach BDSM and BDSM relationships, and of how, when I find myself feeling the funk (with notions like "there really are no people like me... this is all unrealistic fantasy I'll never be able to share with anyone"), I get myself out of it.
There are those who will disagree with me, but I'm still going to make the following statement: BDSM is inherently sexual or, minimally, it's charged and somewhat drug-like. It's easy to identify more obvious drugs and their associated effects - cigarettes, alcohol, marijuana, cocaine, and the like. Let's avoid the debate as to which drugs do and don't belong in a given list and skip directly to the point. It's possible to enjoy alcohol responsibly and safely, but it's also possible to abuse it and not to be aware of ones' own abuse. Perhaps this metaphor is a tad strong or misplaced for BDSM, but I do think people become overly intoxicated with BDSM. Being able to share your deepest, darkest fantasies is powerful stuff, as is finding someone who wants to share in this and who (similarly) has complimentary desires they wish to share. My experience has been BDSM is an amazing adjunct to other areas of compatibility, but, on its own, BDSM is far from a great foundation for friendship and/or for a relationship. Think about this in the vanilla sense. How many vanilla relationships survive an initial spark akin to "gee, you're hot; I think you're hot too; let's make out". This may work for a brief, mutual reward, but it's not likely a great test of long-term compatibility. Fetish play (whatever this entails for a given pairing) is the kinky equivalent.
In summary then, regardless of gender and disposition, I think kinky folks are often too concerned with BDSM (an irony if there ever was one) and sometimes become intoxicated by it. The result is bad decision making, whether this be in how someone approaches an introduction, chooses a partner, or deals with a given situation. I think it's an effective and highly advisable rule-of-thumb to acknowledge that BDSM isn't a catch all for compatibility, doesn't make dating any easier, and doesn't necessarily solve communication issues. Stated another way, vanilla communication is often very effective and basic manners, courtesy, empathy, and social skills are fundamental to all interactions.
I remind myself that when I approach with courtesy and empathy, I invite the same in return. If someone is incapable of interacting on this level, it's not the fault of BDSM per se. This is a human failing or an area of human incompatibility. BDSM is an infinitesimal yet important aspect of personage for kinksters in the same way playing hockey, or an appreciation of hockey, might be for those who share that particular interest. A fellow hockey fan may be a boorish pig. This doesn't mean all hockey fans are boors (although it's tempting to think this after having run into a few too many boorish fans). Separating behaviour from a given interest helps sort this out. Also, when I've felt overwhelmed (read: saddened) by the numbers of kinky people who objectify me, I remind myself of friends and partners who don't. Applying this to a dominant woman's perspective, there must be submissive men who have treated you with kindness and great humanity. Think of these people. Note, I write the word "people" because it's important to avoid the hockey fan chasm (or in this case, the submale chasm - perceived or real as this may be).
I already touched on the supply versus demand conundrum. Early on, during my initial forays as a submissive, I suppose I bought into the notion that there are many more submissive men than dominant women looking for them. Life experience has taught me a considerably different lesson though. There are a lot of men looking for dominant women... true, but after one filters out the drive by boys (those who aren't looking for a relationship and/or those who don't approach in a mature, intelligent, respectful way) the numbers become quite even. Indeed, when meeting vanilla or dominant women, there are only a few who connect with me and where there is mutual chemistry and attraction. Why is this comforting to me and why should it be comforting to dominant women? My feeling is this underlines what I've long suspected. BDSM dating isn't any different than vanilla dating. No matter who you are, it's hard to find a compatible partner. Supposedly the vanilla dating pool is far greater (in size) than the kinky one. While this may be the case, there are lots of vanilla people who can't find a partner. Why is this? There are many reasons, but I think it ultimately comes down to putting oneself out there, finding and attending places and opportunities where those who share your interests may be, and accepting the ups and downs that occur while dating.
quote:
LadyAngelika:
Let's, for one moment, suppose that not all the men that over-fetishize dominant women are wankers or trolls. Let's, for one moment, believe that they came online or accessed another resource to better understand their desire for dominant women and were bombarded with images of women in leather corsets, knee high boots, a snarl, cruelly kicking in testicles and heartlessly spewing out insults. Ok, this could legitimately be someones kink, but it isn't even remotely representative of all dominant women. The thing is, when trying to form an idea of the Dominant woman, media culture isn't very helpful in portraying a variety of representations. It surely isn't concerned with showing the image of the well-balanced, accomplished, loving dominant woman.
There is no question vanilla women are sexualized and stereotyped by media culture, and that this effects expectations men have of women. It also effects expectations women have of other women and of themselves. Dominant women, as pointed out, get especially bad/marginalized representation, whether this be in mainstream media or pornographic media. We're starting to see immense pressure on men too. Take a look at the current barrage of mens magazines (not the porno ones, but rather the business/health ones that purport "real men look like *this*, own possessions like *this*, etc.") to get an indication.
For beginning submissives, it's very easy to get the idea that dominant women want specific things, even when those things may be far off the mark. When I first started searching, many of the dommes I met were rude and domineering, wanted tributes (in the form of gifts and/or money), and objectified me as a free labour or as a sex object. Needless to say, this was quite a shock and it was one of the things that caused me to become a dominant for a while. I gave up on the notion of having a long-term relationship with a loving, dominant woman because such a person seemed not to exist. Two things changed my view: (1) meeting more people and learning how to filter, and (2) meeting a few dominant women who were very different from those I'd met before - approachable, loving, empathetic, communicative, willing to share their knowledge and kindness. To a degree then, I think a subset of dominant women are partly to blame for the negative image dominant women may have as a whole and for the mismatched, fantasy expectations quite a few men have. This said, there is another subset of dominant women who I think are making great strides in changing this image and who speak very well for dominant women as a whole. What has helped me immensely (as I just noted) are women who gave of themselves by explaining their approach with intelligence, grace, and an understanding that all people (male submissives too) have needs and dreams. They showed balance and leadership skills. This is one reason I often use the term "leader" instead of dominant. To be an effective dominant, I think one needs leadership skills and these include things like vision, communication, negotiation, patience, and compromise. Demonstrating these kinds of attributes helps men abandon their media, porn, and self-fetishized notions of dominant women, and gives men (and women, for that matter) guidance and admirable, domme role models.
Have I ever felt I was over fetishizing a Domme? No. If anything, my expectations and fantasies were rudely shattered by dommes who seemed to almost demand I objectify them. Borrowing a self quote from above, "I remind myself that when I approach with courtesy and empathy, I invite the same in return". When a domme approaches in a domineering way and starts barking demands, it sets a very shallow, quid pro quo tone for any further interaction. And really, who wants to spend any time on someone who has an over inflated sense of self importance? This isn't dominant, but it sure is unattractive. Nowadays, as a submissive who interacts with dominants (both male and female), one of the things I find extremely illuminating is the mutual act of acknowledging each other's time and value. When each party acknowledges the other, this shows a sense of balance and of mutual respect, and I find this a great starting place for communication. It shows a baseline, mature understanding of BDSM and of human interactions and relationships.
A large part of the domme fetishization paradox seems to come from online interactions. I've never seen the social misfires in real life that I find in online dating sites and in online forums. True enough, dating is dating and misfires occur, but the online world seems to attract many who lack social maturity and social skills. (Oops. Did I just inadvertently categorize and malign us all? :-) I'll clarify. In the online world, protocols of communication aren't very standardized and the lack of face-to-face interaction allows for minimal investment and minimal repercussion. Thus, for example, it's possible for a submissive man to send out form letters to dominant women (akin to "hey, do you wanna' whip me") and there is no social cost attached. In real life, it's quite possible the same man would never take such an approach in a face-to-face interaction. Internet dating sites almost invite a "throw caution to the wind" approach. I'm not advocating this, but I understand why it happens. This is why I do agree with Lady Pact and others who recommend meeting people at events and munches. Meeting, face-to-face, as the first point of contact eliminates all the online nonsense.
After starting online, going offline, coming back online again, and becoming involved in my local, BDSM community, I think the different approaches have their merits. I can understand those who don't wish to take their BDSM public. I'm one of these people, but I still participate at seminars and public events because this is a great way to learn and to share knowledge. Rather than throw my entire personal life out in public view, I'm very careful about what events I attend and what I choose to share in public. This has worked for me. I also participate in online forums and I find this a great communication and learning tool as well. I suppose, as a filtering tool, I've found online forums are great. Once you've seen someone express themselves a bit, you get a sense of how they communicate. Just as in real life, this is a somewhat virtual, face-to-face meeting and I find my interactions with people online have all become very positive using this approach.
quote:
LadyAngelika:
How funny would it be for me to have a profile on eHarmony where I would write "I am looking for a well-balanced, strong, romantic female-led relationship with a socially dominant well-balanced gentleman who behind closed doors will become my deeply devoted submissive lover and take the pain and humiliation I wish to dish out".
Direct. Eloquent. To the point. Unfortunately, I don't think online, vanilla dating sites, let alone their kinky counterparts, have quite reached a mature, communal conscience for such an approach to be as effective as it should be. :-)
Elan.
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RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman - 
Profile
), it's just they are exceptions for me. 
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