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RE: Collars when married to others - 3/20/2006 8:02:33 PM

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Okay i'm going to dare to throw my two cents in the ring here. my situation and views are often different than others, but so be it, and here goes.

Master views wife and slave as completely seperate relationships and therefore seperate roles. i realize this is not a universal sentiment, so those who are M/s and married to each other will not agree to this. Having said that, i respect your differences, and hope you will respect ours. Also having said that, and keeping with our definition, i am his slave, not his wife. So, if i were married (and i was when we met), there would be nothing he would be "failing" to meet as my Master, because he is not and does not want to be my husband.

As such, i fulfill different needs in him than that of a wife. So, neither am i failing him in anyway, so long as i serve him and know my place.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

RE: Collars when married to others - 3/20/2006 8:09:49 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavejali
In that scenario, its not an attack against the person, its just an awareness of the situation...but it is a failure, nonetheless. And that failure could make that partner really feel bad about themselves knowing they cant fulfill my desires or be all I need.

I think there's a difference between "failure" and "failure to meet someone's needs."

And yes, for a lesbian, Merc would completely fail to meet her sexual needs directly. That doesn't mean he's a failure or has committed a failure.

One needs to have the intent to fulfill the need in the first place and if the need is left unfilled.. then one can concede that failure exists. However, The intent to fullfill the need doesn't mean that the need will be fullfilled directly, Indirectly is just as likely a possibility. IE. alandra enjoyes female intimacy. I don't have the um right stuff to fullfill that need directly, but I can allow it and assist to ensure it is fullfilled and thus indirectly fullfil the need.

Now I make the intent to fulfill the need.. and it doesn't occur and never occurs... then It could be said that I have failed to provide the need wanted. However, equally so. If I don't want and never have an intent to fullfil this need... I have not failed, since it was never my intent to fullfill the need in the first place.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: Collars when married to others - 3/20/2006 8:11:08 PM

TeeGO

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Interesting, your reply was exact as expected - defensive, even if no offensive was intended. You brought the idea of any poly situation indicating failure. I don't know why you would equate one with the other. A symptom of doubt? Our poly friends are anything but failing, they complement each other perfectly, but then they don't have doubt.

Focus on the issue, if you can't do something - you fail. If I didn't fulfill beth in a way important to her - I'd be a failure. My attempt at success may include bringing in another party, but as a man, I'd feel failure. As a Dom in the situation unable to fulfill the emotional needs on a submissive or a person I refer to as my slave, I'd feel the same way - a failure. I'd love to hear from a confident person who is in that situation who can correct that false(?) understanding.

And really, was commenting about meeting "expectations" germane to the subject?

How many mmmmmmmmmm's will this generate? Okay - NOT 'germane' either! Instead - lol.

Being poly is like having your cake and eating it too. To love more than one, to have needs met by more than one, is a greater thing, not failure. Not to say there are not advantages to monogamy, there are. But it's not failure having more people fill more needs. One person can only do so much. If your monogamous, poly is of course going to be strange to you as you see things through your viewfinder. But calling it failure is a bit insulting, even if that was not your intent. Live and let live.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

RE: Collars when married to others - 3/20/2006 8:17:14 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Littlepita

Of course it comes down to what you want and what works for you and your relationship.

My Sir and I were both in unhappy marriages when we met online. We decided for our own sakes to get divorces and to be together in real life before I wore his collar. We wanted that commitment of togetherness. I am very happy to wear his collar and except for having it shortened at the jewelers, where it was away for three days, it hasn't come off my neck since March 5th.

Being in an unhappy marriage and being poly aren't the same.

I frankly think having multiple partners work best when each pairing is solid and happy. Any unhappiness, any instablity needs to be dealt with before you add on any other relationship.

I know there are folks who use multiple relationships to "fix" or to "fill" other slots in their lives but from my experience I'd say you can't fix one relationship by having another and of course, different people different roles in our lives. If that slot you want filled though is really a "fix" then I'd question whether the timing was right for a new relationship.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to Littlepita)

RE: Collars when married to others - 3/20/2006 8:20:05 PM

Sub03

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wow....didnt think me adding my own situation would cause so much controversy. Guess I should be more careful on what I post.

(in reply to truesub4u)

RE: Collars when married to others - 3/20/2006 8:23:46 PM

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Sub03: not all all, I think your post deepened the discussion, thanks.

(in reply to Sub03)

RE: Collars when married to others - 3/20/2006 8:25:03 PM

TeeGO

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sub03

wow....didnt think me adding my own situation would cause so much controversy. Guess I should be more careful on what I post.

Never, your thoughts are as important and mean as much as anybody else's thoughts.

(in reply to Sub03)

RE: Collars when married to others - 3/20/2006 8:26:45 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo
Being in an unhappy marriage and being poly aren't the same.

I completely agree

quote:

I frankly think having multiple partners work best when each pairing is solid and happy. Any unhappiness, any instablity needs to be dealt with before you add on any other relationship.

again... I agree.. my bottom and her husband have been together for over 15 years in marriage. They are an incredibly happy couple. It really is a joy to be around the two of them. They have also been Open the entire time of there relationship as well. They take joy and pleasure in the relationships they have outside of there own. It not to fix something that is missing... but enhance themselves.

quote:

I know there are folks who use multiple relationships to "fix" or to "fill" other slots in their lives but from my experience I'd say you can't fix one relationship by having another and of course, different people different roles in our lives. If that slot you want filled though is really a "fix" then I'd question whether the timing was right for a new relationship.

this reminds me of so many situations of when the couple has a child to try to bring themself closer... or the couples that I have seen time and again enter into the swinging lifestyle to spice up there lives... or the individuals I see in the BDSM lifestyle looking for some to rescue them in there lives. To often these attempts are only a short term fix... and a harder fall, when things fail.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to thetammyjo)

RE: Collars when married to others - 3/20/2006 8:29:31 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Interesting, your reply was exact as expected - defensive, even if no offensive was intended. You brought the idea of any poly situation indicating failure. I don't know why you would equate one with the other. A symptom of doubt? Our poly friends are anything but failing, they complement each other perfectly, but then they don't have doubt.

Focus on the issue, if you can't do something - you fail. If I didn't fulfill beth in a way important to her - I'd be a failure. My attempt at success may include bringing in another party, but as a man, I'd feel failure. As a Dom in the situation unable to fulfill the emotional needs on a submissive or a person I refer to as my slave, I'd feel the same way - a failure. I'd love to hear from a confident person who is in that situation who can correct that false(?) understanding.

And really, was commenting about meeting "expectations" germane to the subject?

How many mmmmmmmmmm's will this generate? Okay - NOT 'germane' either! Instead - lol.

I don't think its a failure unless the expectation is there that you must fulfill all needs of your partner.

I never expected Tom to fulfill all my needs or desires -- nor did I expect to fulfill all of his.

In my opinion, having such an expectation was unrealistic and a set-up for disappointment and failure. Why would I want to start a lifetime together that was set-up with unrealistic expectations?

No expectation = no failure.

I don't think its wisest to assume that all married people have the same expectations for their marriage or that any couple will have the same expectation as another.

The only way to avoid failure (other than not get into any relationships) is to discuss your expectations and find someone who agrees with them.

For example, I'd say someone who expects monogamy but does not make that clear or who enters into a relationship with someone who does not expect monogamy is probably setting her/himself up for failure on a few levels.

To get back to the OP if a wouldbe slave/submissive wishes to be the only person in another one's life then they should not accept a collar from someone who does not have that same expectation. If that wouldbe slave/submissive is more focused on service or on giving her/himself to another person without a monogamous expectation then there can be no failure from simply having multipled partners.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

RE: Collars when married to others - 3/20/2006 8:33:27 PM

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quote:

So, if i were married (and i was when we met), there would be nothing he would be "failing" to meet as my Master, because he is not and does not want to be my husband.

In the scenario's of failure we were discussing, it wouldnt be your Master failing you, but your husband (failing your desires).

(in reply to thetammyjo)

RE: Collars when married to others - 3/20/2006 8:35:09 PM

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From: Washington
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I was addressing the issue of someone needing a Dom to fill some needs while a husband filled others. As it was expressed, one couldn't do what another could. When you can't do something isn't that defining failure?

That was my situation when i was collared to my first dom. Hubby forgave me because he felt he had failed me.

edited because i messed up the quote

< Message edited by proudsub -- 3/20/2006 8:37:29 PM >

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(in reply to Mercnbeth)

RE: Collars when married to others - 3/20/2006 8:38:32 PM

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quote:

Her husband is hospitalized, does she come to a play party with you if it was scheduled and you really wanted to go?

With all due respect, what kind of master would insist his submissive goes to a play party with him when someone she cares about is hospitalized? What if your slave's mother is hospitalized and she is distraught? Do you tell her to suck it up and get her ass to the play party? I don't know, maybe you do. I know that while I can certainly love more than one person at the same time I could never love someone who could be that cruel and insensitive. That's the thing most people don't get about poly - the "other" person in your partner's life is someone you respect and care for as well. If my secondary's other partner was hospitalized I'd be just as concerned for them and not expecting anyone to go to any social event just because I really want to.

Edited to add: it's not a matter of who gets more of the person or who comes first or who comes second, etc. In fact, it's the exact same philosphy that my husband and I apply to our family life with the minor dependants: whoever has the greatest needs at the time takes precedence. With young kids often their needs take precedence, but not always. Likewise in a situation where your sub's husband is hospitalized I'd say the need for her to support him takes precedence over a play party.

< Message edited by MsIncognito -- 3/20/2006 8:42:58 PM >

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

RE: Collars when married to others - 3/20/2006 8:39:09 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sub03

wow....didnt think me adding my own situation would cause so much controversy. Guess I should be more careful on what I post.

Your post was just important to this thread as anyone elses.. remember that...

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(in reply to Sub03)

RE: Collars when married to others - 3/20/2006 8:40:35 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsIncognito

quote:

Her husband is hospitalized, does she come to a play party with you if it was scheduled and you really wanted to go?

With all due respect, what kind of master would insist his submissive goes to a play party with him when someone she cares about is hospitalized? What if your slave's mother is hospitalized and she is distraught? Do you tell her to suck it up and get her ass to the play party? I don't know, maybe you do. I know that while I can certainly love more than one person at the same time I could never love someone who could be that cruel and insensitive. That's the thing most people don't get about poly - the "other" person in your partner's life is someone you respect and care for as well. If my secondary's other partner was hospitalized I'd be just as concerned for them and not expecting anyone to go to any social event just because I really want to.

Well put. i thought the same when i read that.

(in reply to MsIncognito)

RE: Collars when married to others - 3/20/2006 8:42:52 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: slavejali
In the scenario's of failure we were discussing, it wouldnt be your Master failing you, but your husband (failing your desires).

Actually, jali, as you can see in the following quote, mercnbeth is telling sub03 directly that both her Dom and husband are failing her. This is the statement that sparked the whole conversation on failure in the first place.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Sub 03,
Agree that as you state, "As long as everyone knows and there is no sneaking behind anyone's back and everyone understands and agrees"; it can work. How does your Dom feel about failing to fulfill you in some manner that caused you to seek that missing ingredient from a man soon to be your husband? The same question applies to your future husband. Is he comfortable with his inability to make you happy regarding your need to submit? Was there a time when one or the other wasn't comfortable?

< Message edited by MrDiscipline44 -- 3/20/2006 8:43:07 PM >

_____________________________

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Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.

Have you slapped your slave today?

(in reply to slavejali)

RE: Collars when married to others - 3/20/2006 8:43:53 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsIncognito

quote:

Her husband is hospitalized, does she come to a play party with you if it was scheduled and you really wanted to go?

With all due respect, what kind of master would insist his submissive goes to a play party with him when someone she cares about is hospitalized? What if your slave's mother is hospitalized and she is distraught? Do you tell her to suck it up and get her ass to the play party? I don't know, maybe you do. I know that while I can certainly love more than one person at the same time I could never love someone who could be that cruel and insensitive. That's the thing most people don't get about poly - the "other" person in your partner's life is someone you respect and care for as well. If my secondary's other partner was hospitalized I'd be just as concerned for them and not expecting anyone to go to any social event just because I really want to.

Well put. i thought the same when i read that.

Agreed!

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

RE: Collars when married to others - 3/20/2006 8:45:47 PM

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quote:

So then, do you think if one or both partners are committed to others by marriage that they can FULLY commit to a lifestyle collar, and the responsibility it entails?

I couldn't do it. What if they both needed me at the same time and it was something which was equally important to each of them? I'd be torn having to make a decision to prioritize one over the other. I need to be able to give 'all' of me to Master.. 24/7 .. and 'all' of me to my husband, again, 24/7. If they are two different people, one of them is not getting 'all' of me. More power to those who can make it work. I never could.

Celeste

_____________________________

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Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to upherass)

RE: Collars when married to others - 3/20/2006 8:49:24 PM

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quote:

Interesting questions Merc.... seems that you think if a person is accepting of a poly relationship that they somehow have to be failing the person(s) they are in the relationships with.

I have to wonder... what makes you think there is any failing in the first place?

I won't presume to speak for Merc but I know that many people live by the concept of "the one" or the "soulmate" which, IMO, is a fallacy. A lovely, romantic fallacy, but a fallacy nonetheless. Expecting one person to fulfill all of your needs until death do us part is placing one helluva expectation on that person. It's all well and good for people to pipe up and say "I'm up for that!" or "I'll gladly take on that responsibility" but in reality at least 50% aren't even close to being up for it since that's the current divorce rate. If it were really possible to be everything to another serial monogamy wouldn't exist.

(in reply to KnightofMists)

RE: Collars when married to others - 3/20/2006 8:49:34 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

quote:

So then, do you think if one or both partners are committed to others by marriage that they can FULLY commit to a lifestyle collar, and the responsibility it entails?

I couldn't do it. What if they both needed me at the same time and it was something which was equally important to each of them? I'd be torn having to make a decision to prioritize one over the other. I need to be able to give 'all' of me to Master.. 24/7 .. and 'all' of me to my husband, again, 24/7. If they are two different people, one of them is not getting 'all' of me. More power to those who can make it work. I never could.

Celeste

This is the same question Parents with multiple littleones.... They must learn to deal with the conflicting priorities. As one that has 4 well ....they do conflict! naturally of course... it is much more difficult for adult relationships.... but not impossible and not for everyone. some never have little ones... some only one or two... a few fools like me have more than I can carry... I must be nuts!

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to BitaTruble)

RE: Collars when married to others - 3/20/2006 8:50:44 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists
This is the same question Parents with multiple littleones.... They must learn to deal with the conflicting priorities. As one that has 4 well ....they do conflict! naturally of course... it is much more difficult for adult relationships.... but not impossible and not for everyone. some never have little ones... some only one or two... a few fools like me have more than I can carry... I must be nuts!

I call those perfect storm moments.

Those days are hell- but we manage together.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to KnightofMists)

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