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RE: Collars when married to others - 3/20/2006 8:52:11 PM

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i think the point is more (in regards to having a husband and Master..or wife and slave)

Scenario one: your husband(wife) and your Master(Mistress) have a car accident, they both need rehabiliation and care, where does your sense of responsibility go to? Who do you care for?

Scenario Two: Your husband(wife) and your Master (Mistress) both have an important business function they require you to attend on the same night. Where do your loyalties lay? Who do you attend with?

Scenario Three: Youve just had a session with your slave, your wife is expecting you home as you are having guests, perhaps relatives you havent seen in two years. Your sub goes into sub drop and really needs you? Where do your loyalties lay? Where are you gonna be in two hours?

Scenario Four: Your submissive has just lost a relative in a car accident, your wife has just lost someone close to her...where do your responsibilities lay? How can this be managed, they both need you at the same time..

etc etc etc you get the idea...

< Message edited by slavejali -- 3/20/2006 9:01:11 PM >

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

RE: Collars when married to others - 3/20/2006 8:54:17 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

I call those perfect storm moments.

Those days are hell- but we manage together.

nods.. yes...Together! that is it! No him, her them, us... it's WE! It's a Family... different roles, different aspects to the dynamics... but in the end...

We as a Family come together to deal with the Storm!

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: Collars when married to others - 3/20/2006 8:55:43 PM

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Joined: 11/17/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slavejali

i think the point is more (in regards to having a husband and Master..or wife and slave)

Scenario one: your husband(wife) and your Master(Mistress) have a car accident, they both need rehabiliation and care, where does your sense of responsibility go to? Who do you care for?

Scenario Two: Your husband(wife) and your Master (Mistress) both have an important business function they require you to attend on the same night. Where do your loyalties lay? Who do you attend with?

Scenario Three: Youve just had a session with your slave, your wife is expecting you home as you are having guests, perhaps relatives you havent seen in two years. Your sub goes into sub drop and really needs you? Where do your loyalties lay? Where are you gonna be in two hours?

Scenario Three: Your submissive has just lost a relative in a car accident, your wife has just lost someone close to her...where do your responsibilities lay? How can this be managed, they both need you at the same time..

etc etc etc you get the idea...

EXCELLENT slavejali..... very well put.. and now going to make coffee... because I can tell this is gonna get more interresting than it already has been.

_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.

(in reply to slavejali)

RE: Collars when married to others - 3/20/2006 9:00:27 PM

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Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slavejali

i think the point is more (in regards to having a husband and Master..or wife and slave)

Scenario one: your husband(wife) and your Master(Mistress) have a car accident, they both need rehabiliation and care, where does your sense of responsibility go to? Who do you care for?

Scenario Two: Your husband(wife) and your Master (Mistress) both have an important business function they require you to attend on the same night. Where do your loyalties lay? Who do you attend with?

Scenario Three: Youve just had a session with your slave, your wife is expecting you home as you are having guests, perhaps relatives you havent seen in two years. Your sub goes into sub drop and really needs you? Where do your loyalties lay? Where are you gonna be in two hours?

Scenario Three: Your submissive has just lost a relative in a car accident, your wife has just lost someone close to her...where do your responsibilities lay? How can this be managed, they both need you at the same time..

etc etc etc you get the idea...

Depends on the situation. I've actually had to face all of those scenarios in some variation of the poly relationships I've been in.

You deal. You see where the chips lie, where you can be most useful, where you are most desired and what is possible. Then you do everything you can.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to slavejali)

RE: Collars when married to others - 3/20/2006 9:03:12 PM

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Joined: 9/8/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slavejali

i think the point is more (in regards to having a husband and Master..or wife and slave)

Scenario one: your husband(wife) and your Master(Mistress) have a car accident, they both need rehabiliation and care, where does your sense of responsibility go to? Who do you care for?

Scenario Two: Your husband(wife) and your Master (Mistress) both have an important business function they require you to attend on the same night. Where do your loyalties lay? Who do you attend with?

Scenario Three: Youve just had a session with your slave, your wife is expecting you home as you are having guests, perhaps relatives you havent seen in two years. Your sub goes into sub drop and really needs you? Where do your loyalties lay? Where are you gonna be in two hours?

Scenario Three: Your submissive has just lost a relative in a car accident, your wife has just lost someone close to her...where do your responsibilities lay? How can this be managed, they both need you at the same time..

etc etc etc you get the idea...

Some of these situations are unavoidable becuase they are accidents though frankly I think it highly unlikely that such accidents would occur at the same time. Replace two adults partners with your husband and your child -- or your husband and your parent or your best friends -- the choices you need to make are the same.

The other situations are a matter of planning and time management that might be best dealt with via open communication from all parties involved.

In my experience of being poly for almost 14 years now, I've never had such conflicts arise. If they had everyone I've been with knows my legal and religiously recognized marriage takes first priority. Again, the expectations are there, join if you can agree with them or go away from me.

Since you, slavejali, have no interest in being poly, what is the purpose of you asking these scenarios? Is it to try and convince others their choices are ill-formed? Or is the issue of poly being raised in your own life and you are feeling confused and worried about it? Or is there another reasons I can't think of?

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to slavejali)

RE: Collars when married to others - 3/20/2006 9:03:50 PM

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I'm sorry, but let's be realistic. The scearios are for the most part unlikely and in the unlikely even that they do happen you do what you do in any other situation - you make the best choice you can with the information you have at that time! I'm beginning to wonder if no one except me has ever found themselves in situations in day to day life where they've had to make the best choice they could with the info they had at the time. Haven't you ever had to WAIT for your master to be there for you even though you needed him NOW? If not, consider yourself lucky. I can remember being incredibly distraught one afternoon (long ago when hubs and I were still staunchly monogamous) because yet another stick I peed on didn't turn the damn line pink. After several years of dealing with infertility this was the last straw for me. I was livid and broken and had completely lost faith in...well...everything! I needed him home and I needed him NOW! Even though he worked 5 minutes from home it was hours before he could come home simply because the VP of whatever was visiting that week and hubs was giving a presentation. What was he supposed to do? Just up and walk out of a presentation he was giving to the VP? As distraught as I was we still had bills to pay so I waited. I crawled in my own little hole until he came home and pulled me out. Sometimes adults realize that you have to take care of yourself for a while, at least until your partner can finally be there. I envy anyone who has a partner who is always able at the drop of a hat to be there for them in a crisis situation. I've never met any of these mythical people, but given the posts here I don't doubt they exist...I've just never been fortunate enough to be in a relationship with one of them.

Edited to add (yet again, I'm typing way too fast tonight) that in retrospect had we been open to non-monogamy at that time it might have actually made that afternoon a little easier for me because I potentially could have had another person who could have been there to help when my husband couldn't. Ultimately I don't really concern myself with whether or not other embrace non-monogamy but it does bug me when people throw up all these straw men to try and tear down something that ultimately doesn't affect them anyway since they've chosen to be monogamous.

< Message edited by MsIncognito -- 3/20/2006 9:08:09 PM >

(in reply to slavejali)

RE: Collars when married to others - 3/20/2006 9:10:00 PM

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Deleted

< Message edited by truesub4u -- 3/20/2006 9:13:54 PM >

_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.

(in reply to MsIncognito)

RE: Collars when married to others - 3/20/2006 9:11:33 PM

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Joined: 7/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slavejali

i think the point is more (in regards to having a husband and Master..or wife and slave)

Scenario one: your husband(wife) and your Master(Mistress) have a car accident, they both need rehabiliation and care, where does your sense of responsibility go to? Who do you care for?

Scenario Two: Your husband(wife) and your Master (Mistress) both have an important business function they require you to attend on the same night. Where do your loyalties lay? Who do you attend with?

Scenario Three: Youve just had a session with your slave, your wife is expecting you home as you are having guests, perhaps relatives you havent seen in two years. Your sub goes into sub drop and really needs you? Where do your loyalties lay? Where are you gonna be in two hours?

Scenario Four: Your submissive has just lost a relative in a car accident, your wife has just lost someone close to her...where do your responsibilities lay? How can this be managed, they both need you at the same time..

etc etc etc you get the idea...

ok lets just change this slightly..... Your Adult children = Adult A and Adult B

Scenario one: your Adult A and your Adult B are in seperate car accidents, they both need rehabiliation and care as they are both single, where does your sense of responsibility go to? Who do you care for? oh just to make in interesting.. they live on opposite sides of the country.

Scenario Two: Your Adult A and Adult B both have an important Celebration functions they require you to be there the same night. Where do your loyalties lay? Who do you attend with?

Scenario Three: Youve just had a afternoon meeting with your Adult A and the meeting is going late beyond anyones control, your Adult B is expecting you to be at a meeting to meet outlaws from out of the country. Oh yeah they are leaving that nite Where do your loyalties lay? Where are you gonna be in two hours?

Scenario Three: Your Adult A lost an in-law relative in a car accident, your Adult B lost an in-law someone close to her...where do your responsibilities lay? How can this be managed, they both need you at the same time..

mmmmmmmmmmmm maybe we should have more than one kid... or None!

every scenario no matter how cooked up you want to make it.... the answer is simple

You do the best you can in the situation! It's not rocket science

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to slavejali)

RE: Collars when married to others - 3/20/2006 9:13:58 PM

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I think you manage it the same way you do all important relationships. My mother is ill, my best friend finds out her fiance' has cheated on her, and my son has a school program that night. My husband has a business luncheon he wants me to attend but my sister desperately needs a sitter because she has a sudden job interview. My son's soccer game conflicts with my other son's tae-kwon-do tournament. You figure it out.

(in reply to MsIncognito)

RE: Collars when married to others - 3/20/2006 9:16:35 PM

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It's not inconcievable - I said it was unlikely. There is a difference. I can concieve of those scenarios I just don't think they're likely. Possible, but unlikely. As for not knowing until the question is asked, I don't think that's true. One doesn't truely know until one finds themselves in that situation. We can theorize all we want, but theory doesn't always translate into reality, right?

Just out of curiousity, truesub4u, have you ever had to wait for a partner when you needed them or have you always had partners who could drop whatever at the drop of a hat to be there for you? If you have, I think that's great and you're very fortunate.

(in reply to truesub4u)

RE: Collars when married to others - 3/20/2006 9:18:40 PM

Sub03

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Joined: 4/30/2005
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How does your Dom feel about failing to fulfill you in some manner that caused you to seek that missing ingredient from a man soon to be your husband?

Actually I was with my fiance before I met my Dom. And I don't see it as failure in any way. My Dom fufills needs that I have to be Dominated and to serve. He is my Dom and I am the slave...easy as that. He fufills me in all the ways I look towards Him to be fufilled.

The same question applies to your future husband. Is he comfortable with his inability to make you happy regarding your need to submit?

I don't look towards him for that. I see him as my fiance and I love him in that way. He gives me the love that I need in a vanilla way. He is happy in the situation and dosen't see it as an inability to do something since I don't look towards him for that. He can't fail at something that I never wanted him to do.

Was there a time when one or the other wasn't comfortable?

I wish I could say no it has always been easy but I can't. There have been some ups and downs but there's that in any kind of relationship no matter the dynamics behind it. But it was something that was talked out in the beginning and everyone understood what was expected. It's something that works for us and im happy that it works. Many may not agree to it but the world would be a pretty boring place if we all thought alike.

Its a strong man, or in this case men, to deal with failure that he has to confront and be reminded of every day; assuming you'll be wearing a wedding ring and a collar, or some other visual confirmation of your relationship with your Dom. Most men would tend to avoid dealing with their shortcomings completely. They must both be very special.

They both are very special. But they don't deal with failure in any way because as I stated above, they each give me what I seek from them. And I give them each what they seek from me. It's not exactly a regular poly situation but it's not that different then one either. I see the whole dynamic as a success rather then a failure, we each have found ways to fufill each others wants and needs and made it work to where everyone is comfortable and understanding.

Congratulations on evaluating yourself, determining what is important, and then going out and finding it.
Good Luck!

Thank you

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

RE: Collars when married to others - 3/20/2006 9:19:09 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsIncognito
but it does bug me when people throw up all these straw men to try and tear down something that ultimately doesn't affect them anyway since they've chosen to be monogamous.

aaaaww but it does affect many of them... for these same people often have multiple brother and sisters.... inlaws and their own kids.... . We all these multiple relationships that get in conflict with one another.... WE all manage! sometimes we do good... sometimes not so good.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to MsIncognito)

RE: Collars when married to others - 3/20/2006 9:19:29 PM

classykindasassy

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Amazing. I sure got some righteous answers to my post when I posted a thread on the Poly board about being in a collared relationship with a man married to a vanilla lady. They asserted that I was stupid and wrong if I trusted HIM to be straight with me that the wife knows about me and accepts me. I have met her face to face.

Here, some of those folks are pretty liberal all of a sudden. Guess it depends on which way the wind blows and how much you want to pretend you know about the circumstances of others.

In any case, in my experience, agreements can be put together and made to work, any which way people arrange it and have it work. It takes communication and honoring one's word.

_____________________________

"The less I seek my source for some definitive, the closer I am to fine." -The Indigo Girls

(in reply to Littlepita)

RE: Collars when married to others - 3/20/2006 9:23:05 PM

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ok here goes:

quote:

You deal. You see where the chips lie, where you can be most useful, where you are most desired and what is possible. Then you do everything you can.

quote:

I've never had such conflicts arise. If they had everyone I've been with knows my legal and religiously recognized marriage takes first priority.

quote:

even that they do happen you do what you do in any other situation - you make the best choice you can with the information you have at that time!

Ok..so my point is...that I was trying to point out what I thought the OP was referring to. In each of those responses a choice had to be made, one that wouldnt arise if there was no "other", each situation would be resolved within the context and commitment of one relationship.

As in:

quote:

So then, do you think if one or both partners are committed to others by marriage that they can FULLY commit to a lifestyle collar, and the responsibility it entails?

.
.
.

quote:

Since you, slavejali, have no interest in being poly, what is the purpose of you asking these scenarios? Is it to try and convince others their choices are ill-formed? Or is the issue of poly being raised in your own life and you are feeling confused and worried about it? Or is there another reasons I can't think of?

Was just trying to get to the OPS meaning. I enjoy exploring things sometimes. And no I dont push the way I live onto others or expect them to live the same way as me. I do however feel very confused about how people can have two partners, only because I cant relate to it, so because its a stickler for me, I enjoy discussing it, I dont mean any offense by what I say.

and Im going to post this..cuz Ive only read three replies since my last post..and I will get back to any more there are.

(in reply to MsIncognito)

RE: Collars when married to others - 3/20/2006 9:24:44 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsIncognito

Just out of curiousity, truesub4u, have you ever had to wait for a partner when you needed them or have you always had partners who could drop whatever at the drop of a hat to be there for you? If you have, I think that's great and you're very fortunate.

Well, sense I find myself single... and been single for over 10 years now.. I can't very well answer your question. But I can add this... depending on the situation.. of being an emergency, let me find out he didn't try to drop whatever at the drop of a hat and be there ,,,,,see how quickly he finds his ass seeking again.. instead of found.

_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.

(in reply to MsIncognito)

RE: Collars when married to others - 3/20/2006 9:28:58 PM

Sub03

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Joined: 4/30/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavejali

i think the point is more (in regards to having a husband and Master..or wife and slave)

Scenario one: your husband(wife) and your Master(Mistress) have a car accident, they both need rehabiliation and care, where does your sense of responsibility go to? Who do you care for?

Scenario Two: Your husband(wife) and your Master (Mistress) both have an important business function they require you to attend on the same night. Where do your loyalties lay? Who do you attend with?

Scenario Three: Youve just had a session with your slave, your wife is expecting you home as you are having guests, perhaps relatives you havent seen in two years. Your sub goes into sub drop and really needs you? Where do your loyalties lay? Where are you gonna be in two hours?

Scenario Four: Your submissive has just lost a relative in a car accident, your wife has just lost someone close to her...where do your responsibilities lay? How can this be managed, they both need you at the same time..

etc etc etc you get the idea...

ok lets just change this slightly..... Your Adult children = Adult A and Adult B

Scenario one: your Adult A and your Adult B are in seperate car accidents, they both need rehabiliation and care as they are both single, where does your sense of responsibility go to? Who do you care for? oh just to make in interesting.. they live on opposite sides of the country.

Scenario Two: Your Adult A and Adult B both have an important Celebration functions they require you to be there the same night. Where do your loyalties lay? Who do you attend with?

Scenario Three: Youve just had a afternoon meeting with your Adult A and the meeting is going late beyond anyones control, your Adult B is expecting you to be at a meeting to meet outlaws from out of the country. Oh yeah they are leaving that nite Where do your loyalties lay? Where are you gonna be in two hours?

Scenario Three: Your Adult A lost an in-law relative in a car accident, your Adult B lost an in-law someone close to her...where do your responsibilities lay? How can this be managed, they both need you at the same time..

mmmmmmmmmmmm maybe we should have more than one kid... or None!

every scenario no matter how cooked up you want to make it.... the answer is simple

You do the best you can in the situation! It's not rocket science

Exactly....

(in reply to KnightofMists)

RE: Collars when married to others - 3/20/2006 9:33:38 PM

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From: Texas
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quote:

ok lets just change this slightly..... Your Adult children = Adult A and Adult B

Scenario one: your Adult A and your Adult B are in seperate car accidents, they both need rehabiliation and care as they are both single, where does your sense of responsibility go to? Who do you care for? oh just to make in interesting.. they live on opposite sides of the country.

I'll add in Adult C for Himself's grown daughter. All three of our children got into serious car accidents within 8 days of each other. One in Nevada, one in Florida and one in California. All three kids were grown but single and we dealt with all of it by having a family support network in place to take turns with everything. There were cousins, aunts, uncles, grandparents, boy/girlfriends etc. to jump in and help. I think that situation is a bit different than one's Master and husband being in the same situation were the slave/wife is the one who is needed. If the Master has other support, then I'm sure they'd jump in as well and might view the slave as an intruder anyway, especially if the Master were married to someone else. It's not as if the slave has any say over the health and care of the Master. And as for being on both coasts, well.. my definition of 'fully' committed isn't the issue here, so I'll save that for another thread. ::chuckles::

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to KnightofMists)

RE: Collars when married to others - 3/20/2006 9:38:15 PM

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hehe KnightofMists..ok tackling these ones

quote:

Scenario one: your Adult A and your Adult B are in seperate car accidents, they both need rehabiliation and care as they are both single, where does your sense of responsibility go to? Who do you care for? oh just to make in interesting.. they live on opposite sides of the country.

Ok, so cuz they are my adult children, I wouldnt see it as the same scenario as my partner/s. Once my children are grown they are responsible for themselves, I wouldnt feel torn between looking after one or the other. Sure I would go and visit them, spend some time with them, but as far as day to day care goes, I would think they would get a nurse, or their partner would look after them.

quote:

Scenario Two: Your Adult A and Adult B both have an important Celebration functions they require you to be there the same night. Where do your loyalties lay? Who do you attend with?

Hrmm,.....ok so I still wouldnt see it the same as if I had two partners I was trying to be committed to....god..but in that scenario I would be torn definately.

quote:

Scenario Three: Youve just had a afternoon meeting with your Adult A and the meeting is going late beyond anyones control, your Adult B is expecting you to be at a meeting to meet outlaws from out of the country. Oh yeah they are leaving that nite Where do your loyalties lay? Where are you gonna be in two hours?

I just cant see the scenarios as the same as if they played out with partner/s. Kids have to understand that there parents cant be in two places at once. Partners dont necessarily have to accept that when it comes to another partner.

quote:

Scenario Four: Your Adult A lost an in-law relative in a car accident, your Adult B lost an in-law someone close to her...where do your responsibilities lay? How can this be managed, they both need you at the same time..

See, I still dont see it the same, my role has changed cuz they are adult children. If it happened with partner/s though,..I am their significant other...its a different dynamic to me.

Ok Im so sorry im taking so long...working my way through these...I have to go out for an hour...hope it still continues..

And really and truely..I'm so not disrespecting anyones way of living here...im just expressing my own ideas and what i think the OP was talking about originally.

(in reply to slavejali)

RE: Collars when married to others - 3/20/2006 9:45:04 PM

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From: Nashville, TN
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quote:

Focus on the issue, if you can't do something - you fail. If I didn't fulfill beth in a way important to her - I'd be a failure. My attempt at success may include bringing in another party, but as a man, I'd feel failure. As a Dom in the situation unable to fulfill the emotional needs on a submissive or a person I refer to as my slave, I'd feel the same way - a failure. I'd love to hear from a confident person who is in that situation who can correct that false(?) understanding.

I think you are viewing this fulfillment/failure idea in terms that are too black and white. One thing that life has taught me is that inbetween black and white is a whole lot of grey.

I think that to assume that one person has to completely fulfill the needs of another is setting yourself up for disappointment. Knowing your limitations, excepting them and adapting the situation to meet the needs of your partner is not failing in any form of the word. What if beth developed a need to dominate a female? Would you feel like a failure for not being able to personally fulfill that need in her? No one can be everything to anyone. That doesn't make them failures, it makes them human.

As I said previously, I have a sub that's married. What I didn't mention is that he's married to a Domme. Did she somehow fail to dominate him? No, she is a fantastic Dominant. Did he fail to submit to her? No, he's a wonderful sub! It just doesn't work for them in their marriage for him to submit to her. Is their marriage a failure? By all means no, in fact they are, as a couple, stronger and happier for it.

_____________________________

Tress

"If you have to tell people that you are a lady, you are not." My Grandmother

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

RE: Collars when married to others - 3/20/2006 9:53:22 PM

Sub03

Posts: 600
Joined: 4/30/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: yourMissTress
As I said previously, I have a sub that's married. What I didn't mention is that he's married to a Domme. Did she somehow fail to dominate him? No, she is a fantastic Dominant. Did he fail to submit to her? No, he's a wonderful sub! It just doesn't work for them in their marriage for him to submit to her. Is their marriage a failure? By all means no, in fact they are, as a couple, stronger and happier for it.

Thank you thank you thank you.....my exact situation right there. Wasnt going to elaborate that much but since you brought it up first. My fiance is a Dom He just dosen't and can't Dom me. We have tried and it dosent work in our relationship. So I don't look towards Him for that. Does that mean He is a failure?? I don't think so....we just work better as a vanilla couple, and I like it that way and He is happy so why not??

(in reply to yourMissTress)

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