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RE: Collars when married to others - 3/21/2006 12:04:06 PM

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A collar is no more or no less a symbol of committment than a wedding ring is, although I can say that there are (probably) more people who have cheated on their spouses to wear a collar than visa versa.

With that said...on to address your question:

quote:

do you think if one or both partners are committed to others by marriage that they can FULLY commit to a lifestyle collar, and the responsibility it entails?

Of course they can. The responsibility of a collar... is determined fully upon whatever negotiations have taken place by the collarer and the collaree. Those negotiations may be limited to daily blowjobs or be as detailed to involve daily housekeeping duties, position training, endurance training, 24/7-ish servitude, etc. I don't think many spouses would deal well with their significant others being a 24/7 slave...if you take that term literally, that is.

It can work...but it requires well established lines of communication between all parties involved. (Although, I have the feeling that you are asking about those who are having 2 or more relationships without letting their other partners know about it...)

~Thorns

_____________________________

~"Do you know what the chain of command is? Its the chain I beat ya with when ya don't follow my command."

"My inner child is a mean little fucker"

(in reply to upherass)

RE: Collars when married to others - 3/21/2006 4:55:52 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
One final question. Is everyone's definition of 'poly' now inclusive of those who have compartmentalized boundary defined relationships such as an non-understanding spouse? I always thought it to refer to people with complementary common partners commonly living together or coming together regularly. Should every 'cheating' spouse now just be considered 'poly'?

Polyamorous simply means loving more than one, but it doesn't specifiy a structure of the relationships.

The structure that I have with my Lord and alandra is only one way to set up a poly relationship. All three of us have an intimate relationship with each other. There are other ways that poly relationships can be structured, one is that a single person is the center and others have a intimate relationship with them, but not necessarily with each other. This is the relationship that denika has with my Lord and her husband. Both men have an intimate relationship with her, one as husband and the other as top, but they only have a friendship between them. Of course our family gets more complex when you consider that alandra is intimate with both denika and her husband and that my relationship with them at this time is as friend.

A cheating spouse may or may not be in a poly relationship. However, if both partners agreed to monogamy and then one decided to cheat, then that is not poly to me.

Knight's kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

RE: Collars when married to others - 3/21/2006 7:00:39 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

yes kyra... and apparently to some... denika's husband and I are failing denika.

I almost had a mild coronary when I read that part of the post. Failing me?? Are you kidding? I am so blessed it's not funny.

I can only answer for myself and the unique relationship I share with my husband and with Knight and His family. I don't label our relationship, that would catagorize it and I don't want to do that. Rob has his own kink *g* and BDSM isn't it and he doesn't want to dominate me or play to my masochistic tendancies. We balance our relationship with our friendships. Just because Rob and I are not in a sexual relationship with kyra doesn't make the relationship we do have any less.

Rob and I spent alot of time talking about this lifestyle and how my priorities are spread out. He doesn't want me to ask him for permission, lol the first time I did he looked at me as if I had suddenly sprouted a 2nd head, it was kind of funny actually. When I am in Knight's presence I defer to Him, not because I feel I have too but because I want to and it truly pleases me to be able to serve Him. I know cliched but it's true. It has alot to do with respect.

A healthy poly dynamic is what ever works for those involved in the poly family, not everyone is going to understand, same as swinging. One of the most common questions we got when we came out as having an open marriage, is what was missing that made us look to others. It wasn't what was missing, it was what was being added and enhanced.

Being failed?? Never .I am spoiled, our lives are so much richer for sharing in this life with Knight. As well when Rob travels with work he feels 100% safer knowing that I am not alone, that there is someone I can look to for guidance and friendship, and keep me out of mischief *gg*

denika

(in reply to KnightofMists)

RE: Collars when married to others - 3/21/2006 9:13:19 PM

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Anyone married/engaged/involved and also in a d/s relationship are NOT fully committed to that partner and NOT fully committed to their loved ones, so whomever states they are fully committed......get REAL!!!!!!

(in reply to Sub03)

RE: Collars when married to others - 3/21/2006 9:21:22 PM

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Joined: 12/20/2005
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quote:

ollaring post got me thinking about the committment they represent to many. Most agree it IS a com

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavejali

I'm a monogamous type of person, I cant get my head around multiple partners. This person for this and that person for that seems too separating to me, like my life would be divided into different boxes, I would feel split.

As far as the choices other people make for their lives, to each their own. The only niggle I would have is if someone was betraying a partner with another....once a promise of commitment is made to one it doesnt say much for the persons character if they break that promise, its just not very honorable.

I think when you say something like this you are not taking life situations into account. If someone who is married and discovers they are submissive leaves the mate to find what she thinks she needs then is that right? Is it right to leave and hurt many people to satisfy sexual and emotional desires? However, the pull of this lifestyle is strong and it is a craving. I think that prior to judging and calling someone not honorable you need to review the situation and determine if they are selflessly living in a relationship and making things good while meeting their needs in order to prevent hurting a lot of people.

(in reply to slavejali)

RE: Collars when married to others - 3/21/2006 9:34:26 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: VaLadyAlwys

Anyone married/engaged/involved and also in a d/s relationship are NOT fully committed to that partner and NOT fully committed to their loved ones, so whomever states they are fully committed......get REAL!!!!!!

Oh yeah... this is gonna require a fresh cup of coffee... and a snack... thanks VaLady.... (settles on couch to watch the fire works)

_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.

(in reply to VaLadyAlwys)

RE: Collars when married to others - 3/21/2006 9:35:48 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: truesub4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: VaLadyAlwys

Anyone married/engaged/involved and also in a d/s relationship are NOT fully committed to that partner and NOT fully committed to their loved ones, so whomever states they are fully committed......get REAL!!!!!!

Oh yeah... this is gonna require a fresh cup of coffee... and a snack... thanks VaLady.... (settles on couch to watch the fire works)

LOL sometimes i think the great folks of CM plant someone like that in here just to liven things up!

(in reply to truesub4u)

RE: Collars when married to others - 3/22/2006 4:45:34 AM

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I was contracted and collared in a poly relationship to a husband and wife while married. My husband even signed my contract. It's all in how you word the contract and set boundaries. There was to be nothing going on that would endanger or impede the primary relationship, no intercourse nor kissing. Those were the main points that were stressed in our contract.

angel

(in reply to upherass)

RE: Collars when married to others - 3/22/2006 5:18:07 AM

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deleted my post before I'm more judgemental but for fucks sake how can anyone justify lying and cheating and betrayal in any circumstance? I would see it as more honorable for someone to say "Im really fucking up, Im betraying my partner" like being honest about the situation..Heck no one is perfect...we get dealt the cards in life and we all do the best we can..but if we continually go around justifying the shitty things we are doing..what hope is there?

(in reply to pleasetame)

RE: Collars when married to others - 3/22/2006 7:18:54 AM

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Deleted.

< Message edited by ownedgirlie -- 3/22/2006 7:56:11 AM >

(in reply to slavejali)

RE: Collars when married to others - 3/22/2006 7:33:40 AM

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Joined: 3/13/2006
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To Me, a submissive who is married, is already in a commitment. Already in a sense collared. Unless the spouse knows of the extramarital encounters it would be cheating. If a collar is given to a submissive, and they are with a Top other then thiers, that to Me is the same as being married and being with some one other then your spouse. If you are in a poly relationship, then it is different, always an exception. The ring to a vanilla, is the same as a collar to Me, using it as an example. ~BK~

(in reply to Littlepita)

RE: Collars when married to others - 3/22/2006 7:36:38 AM

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I am married to a vanilla(12 years). I think the the wedding ring should come first. That is NOT to say they shouldnt feel anyless commited to the collar. After all..with the ring...hes the father of ur children(if u have any by him.)My sub is also married. I think the wife should come before Me in any aspect. Being that this is a 2 way street( for those who dont understand what I mean by 2-way....without the subs or slaves submitting their submission to us what would we have? and with a Dominant to take that submission, who would they have to guide them?...for those who think the collar should come first...put the ring on the other finger....would Ur wife come before ur sub or slave?

Always put the shoe on the other foot whether ur a Dominant or slave/sub.

(in reply to upherass)

RE: Collars when married to others - 3/22/2006 7:46:02 AM

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i didn't see where anyone was justifying lying or betrayal. If all parties involved are aware and there is open and honest communication then how is that betrayal? Now if someone is going behind their partners back, yes i have a problem with that. This road i have been on has not been an easy one, and i am grateful that i have the husband that i do. And some may not agree with our choices, and thats fine..but it makes us happy. I thought most the people who posted on here and talked about their own situations were all in open relationships where the partners were aware. I could be wrong about it, but thats the impression that i got.

(in reply to slavejali)

RE: Collars when married to others - 3/22/2006 10:19:36 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: slavejali

deleted my post before I'm more judgemental but for fucks sake how can anyone justify lying and cheating and betrayal in any circumstance? I would see it as more honorable for someone to say "Im really fucking up, Im betraying my partner" like being honest about the situation..Heck no one is perfect...we get dealt the cards in life and we all do the best we can..but if we continually go around justifying the shitty things we are doing..what hope is there?

Slavejali, though you said it more colorful than I could. I understand poly relationships. To me, as I see them (AND THIS IS ONLY MY OPINION) Poly between 3 or more single people is what I call, their kink.Hell nothing wrong with an orgy now and then... LOL

But when I see one person married to a "nilla" (God I hate that word) And goes outside the marriage to seek full fillment for ones inner desires... is total rubish. Even if the other half "agrees" to this. In over 20 years that I have lived as a submissive I have never seen "the other" agree to allowing his or her spouse to used, abused, fucked, or sucked by another. I've seen them together play with others. Swingers I think they were called. But to allow one to go off and wallop around with another.... no. I've seen to many time the pain, the arguements, the fights, and divorces. And this is even from the ones who TRIED to accept this. It just became too much for them to understand and deal with.
Now I have seen where one did submit to another outside the marriage and thought ... hey... they made it work.... until she came crying that her husband is cheating on her with another woman. Well DUH!!!!!!!! Surely she didn't expect his to sit at home by himself with cock in hand while she was off spreading her thighs for her Dom! (No he wasn't into the BDSM life, it wasn't for him) Now they're divorced and she's not with the Dom anymore, she's alone.

So no... I do not agree with collaring a married person. UNless you are the one married to the one you're collaring. But like I said from the start, poly is great... for the SINGLE people involved and if they can make it work out.

_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.

(in reply to slavejali)

RE: Collars when married to others - 3/22/2006 10:38:20 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: truesub4u
In over 20 years that I have lived as a submissive I have never seen "the other" agree to allowing his or her spouse to used, abused, fucked, or sucked by another. I've seen them together play with others.

Please let me know if you will be in the Boston or DC/Baltimore area, or if you are going to Leather Retreat, or Black Rose 06- I can introduce you to a few who've been doing it happily for years. Or if you will be in the NJ, NY, or Atlanta areas, I can give a heads up to some people I know that you can contact and see them.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to truesub4u)

RE: Collars when married to others - 3/22/2006 10:45:01 AM

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From: Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slavejali

deleted my post before I'm more judgemental but for fucks sake how can anyone justify lying and cheating and betrayal in any circumstance?

I'm a huge advocate of consensual relationships between all parties. There are, however, always gray areas. My mother-in-law was hospitalized at the age of 55 with dementia and within 2 years knew no one and nothing of real life and remained in a home until she died at the age of 75. My father-in-law did not divorce this woman because of her dementia, but kept the insurance on her and took care of everything as best as he could but the one thing he could not do was to go to her and ask her permission to seek someone for that companionship because she couldn't have consented. So, he had one of two options.. either become celibate or get a companion. I'm sure there are many who would say that he should have kept it in his pants for those 20 years and remained true to his vows, but, he's only human. It's not my place to judge or begrudge him the choices he's made. He will have to answer to his own conscience on that one. Some people would say that even masturbation without telling your spouse is cheating but not everyone has a will of iron to ignore their biological urges. Life's messy.. and there's nothing we can do about it.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to slavejali)

RE: Collars when married to others - 3/22/2006 11:30:48 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: truesub4u
In over 20 years that I have lived as a submissive I have never seen "the other" agree to allowing his or her spouse to used, abused, fucked, or sucked by another. I've seen them together play with others.

Please let me know if you will be in the Boston or DC/Baltimore area, or if you are going to Leather Retreat, or Black Rose 06- I can introduce you to a few who've been doing it happily for years. Or if you will be in the NJ, NY, or Atlanta areas, I can give a heads up to some people I know that you can contact and see them.

yes she does need to get out more...

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: Collars when married to others - 3/22/2006 12:19:24 PM

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quote:

But when I see one person married to a "nilla" (God I hate that word) And goes outside the marriage to seek full fillment for ones inner desires... is total rubish. Even if the other half "agrees" to this. In over 20 years that I have lived as a submissive I have never seen "the other" agree to allowing his or her spouse to used, abused, fucked, or sucked by another. I've seen them together play with others. Swingers I think they were called.

Having a bad day?
Wow. Talk about rubbishI am a submissive ,husband knows all about me. We have been married 19 yrs and the happiest yrs for us have been the last 10 yrs I've been sub. No we do not swing either unless you are referring to the swingset in the back yard.
oops-hit wrong reply to button

< Message edited by swtnsparkling -- 3/22/2006 12:27:31 PM >

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Never make anyone a priority who treats you as an option 2003

Walk in Peace

A "No" uttered from deepest conviction is better than a "Yes" uttered merely to please

(in reply to KnightofMists)

RE: Collars when married to others - 3/22/2006 12:27:29 PM

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So is it ok for a married person to collar a single person? The way you portray it, it's like marriage is something that is unchanging with no potential for change or growth. GAds, no wonder why so many men consider the sound of wedding bells to be a death knell.

quote:

So no... I do not agree with collaring a married person. UNless you are the one married to the one you're collaring. But like I said from the start, poly is great... for the SINGLE people involved and if they can make it work out.

< Message edited by MsIncognito -- 3/22/2006 12:32:59 PM >

(in reply to truesub4u)

RE: Collars when married to others - 3/22/2006 12:29:01 PM

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quote:

Please let me know if you will be in the Boston or DC/Baltimore area, or if you are going to Leather Retreat, or Black Rose 06- I can introduce you to a few who've been doing it happily for years. Or if you will be in the NJ, NY, or Atlanta areas, I can give a heads up to some people I know that you can contact and see them.

LA,
Agree or accept, and under what consequence for not accepting? Kids, house, hell, even medical insurance, are reasons to accept. At Folsom we attended a presentation from a couple who had this situation. She was a self-professed slut. He stayed behind with the kids and maintained the house during her expeditions where she did everything to all. He would qualify for one of these examples of "agreeing". He saw three choices, let her go out and be miserable at home and worry that she would do herself harm; divorce her and unless he wanted to expose himself and his children to a messy sensationalized divorce proceeding pay child support and alimony; or join her and try to like it. From a lifestyle perspective it has a happy ending. He joined her and now he loves it too. I don't think beth and I came away from the presentation with the intended message, but it was an enlightening seminar regarding the topic we are discussing.

Truesub, and this post addresses the spouse left behind, not poly and not open marriages. How many of those "agreeing" are like the example sighted? How many, as this man, base that acceptance on the fundamental truth that they love the person no matter what and this is about as "no matter what" as it can get. I'll even interject the "vows" aspect again, the "for better or worse" part. Because of that I'd disagree with BitaTruble's father-in-law "he's only human" defense. I can understand it. I wouldn't want to be in a similar position and have to make that decision, but I hope I'd be an asshole with integrity and divorce my dementia inflicted partner, paying the expenses out of my own pocket, than see my lying cheating face in the mirror every morning when I shaved. Which posses the question, did the father-in-law not divorce her because he would still be financial responsible anyway if the insurance company was left off the hook? Meanwhile, did the children get to "agree"? Not answers we really need to know, but they would be going through my mind during the decision process. However, I can be accused and I am speaking in the hypothetical as far any experience of this nature. Regarding a married partner with an agreeing partner I speak from actual experience.

When I first moved to California, the opportunity came up. A married woman submissive whose husband was agreeing. I spoke with him. He was her 'safe-call' when she came to my apartment. The only thing going through my mind was him and their "unmentionable" back home. The hours we spent together were probably the longest I've gone without having ANY 'lifestyle' thoughts rummaging around in my head.

Unlike where the education trends seem to be going 2+2 will always equal exactly 4. There ARE absolutes. Absolutes that should be the boundaries of doing what you want to do versus doing what you'd like to do, or have fun doing. There are thousands of justifications and reasons to rationalize doing things you want to do. It's much harder when you have absolutes, that define you, which conflict. You keep compromising your absolutes and before long you don't know what they are. Then you don't know who you are. I guess under those conditions it is impossible to fail.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

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