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RE: Collars when married to others - 3/22/2006 4:52:20 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic

You are married to alandra... what if when you wanted to bring a third, fourth or fifth in... she said 'no'? btw i am asking this of You because i don't believe You ever lied or 'cheated' on her... i believe that the Ttwo of Yyou went into this "with eyes wide open'... however, the question remains, what if she said 'no'?

then she would find herself divorced! and without a Master. She is a slave... and Role-play's the wife.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to angelic)

RE: Collars when married to others - 3/22/2006 4:56:55 PM

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quote:

Original KnightofMists:
She is a slave... and Role-play's the wife.

Love that, gonna show it to Master

(in reply to KnightofMists)

RE: Collars when married to others - 3/22/2006 4:57:58 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic

You are married to alandra... what if when you wanted to bring a third, fourth or fifth in... she said 'no'? btw i am asking this of You because i don't believe You ever lied or 'cheated' on her... i believe that the Ttwo of Yyou went into this "with eyes wide open'... however, the question remains, what if she said 'no'?

angelic,

There is a big difference in saying "No" and asking to express the opinion, "my Lord, I think that this will harm my well-being and here are the reasons why..."

alandra and I do not say no to him, but if we think something he wants to do will harm our well-being then we give him that information. There will be a conversation... sometimes more than one, but at the end of the day he will make his decision on what he wants to do and she and I will either accept it or end the M/s relationship.

Knight's kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to angelic)

RE: Collars when married to others - 3/22/2006 5:01:46 PM

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then i have to ask this question...(some assumptions here... so i apologize for that)... she is standing there vowing to you and You are vowing to her... and so easily you can say 'kiss my butt' you are gone?

_____________________________

~....and once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return.~ -- Leonardo de Vinci

(in reply to KnightofMists)

RE: Collars when married to others - 3/22/2006 5:04:41 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic

then i have to ask this question...(some assumptions here... so i apologize for that)... she is standing there vowing to you and You are vowing to her... and so easily you can say 'kiss my butt' you are gone?

I know I'm not married, but if any of my partners came to me and said "I need to be monogamous" my reaction would be "OK, I'm really sorry about that and I hope you find what you want" and then it would be over.

Doesn't mean I don't love them and that it wouldn't completely break my heart- but love means allowing them to be fulfilled, even if it means not with you. I'm not monogamous.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to angelic)

RE: Collars when married to others - 3/22/2006 5:05:11 PM

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ok... but what if she felt threatened by you kyra? soooo... poof divorced... (lol no wonder we are such a litigious society)... don't like it??? sue....

what if she felt truly threatened by you kyra? what then? oh ok... she gets to divorce Him... walk away... leave... *major eye roll here*.

_____________________________

~....and once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return.~ -- Leonardo de Vinci

(in reply to kyraofMists)

RE: Collars when married to others - 3/22/2006 5:06:55 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic

then i have to ask this question...(some assumptions here... so i apologize for that)... she is standing there vowing to you and You are vowing to her... and so easily you can say 'kiss my butt' you are gone?

I know I'm not married, but if any of my partners came to me and said "I need to be monogamous" my reaction would be "OK, I'm really sorry about that and I hope you find what you want" and then it would be over.

Doesn't mean I don't love them and that it wouldn't completely break my heart- but love means allowing them to be fulfilled, even if it means not with you. I'm not monogamous.

exactly LA... you would be honest and straight up with them...

_____________________________

~....and once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return.~ -- Leonardo de Vinci

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: Collars when married to others - 3/22/2006 5:09:11 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: slavejali

quote:

Original KnightofMists:
She is a slave... and Role-play's the wife.

Love that, gonna show it to Master

did You not put a ring on her finger??? did You not VOW to her??? did she not VOW to You? so were Your vows bullcrap?

< Message edited by angelic -- 3/22/2006 5:10:12 PM >

_____________________________

~....and once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return.~ -- Leonardo de Vinci

(in reply to slavejali)

RE: Collars when married to others - 3/22/2006 5:23:43 PM

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angelic: marriage legalities mean different things to different people. For me, I had already made my promise to Master as his slave before we were married. They are important and sacred. My wife status is whats recognised by the world and we made our own vows.

I can relate to the "She is a slave... and Role-play's the wife." words.

I see your point though, if someone was married before entering into a Master/slave relationship...what if they said "no" to changes ...by enforcing those changes, isnt that breaking the promises they already made to each other as husband and wife? ...but I'm guessing..KnightofMists and Alandra discussed the repercussions of changing their relationship into Master/slave and all that entailed...the transition is done...they have both accepted it..so there is no more "no" to be said.

(in reply to angelic)

RE: Collars when married to others - 3/22/2006 5:24:14 PM

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quote:

then she would find herself divorced! and without a Master. She is a slave... and Role-play's the wife.

KoM,
When I quote you after August, I'll give you credit! GREAT!

quote:

angelic: then i have to ask this question...(some assumptions here... so i apologize for that)... she is standing there vowing to you and You are vowing to her

What you skipped over is often missed by those who are not in 24/7 live in type arrangements. There are 'vows' on BOTH sides. I don't remember if KoM indicated he had a written contract of some sort beyond the marriage vows or not, but even if not, a slave can NOT make that demand. There is no - NO. she can, if allowed make the 'request', beg, plead, all the rest; but unilaterally demanding, by definition, breaks her vow.

I'd hazard to guess she wouldn't consider the possibility.

Think of it in terms of the old "No Limits" debate. A Master has the ability to chain saw off an arm, does he do it just to prove he can? "What ifs" regarding a Master and his slave(s) are the same thing. "No Limits" really means "Master's Limits". Any decision is Master's decision. It's why before becoming a slave you should be damn sure about the integrity of your Master. Your emotional, mental, and even physical well being is his responsibility. That kind of trust is empowering for all concerned, but is dangerous if you, as a slave, place in the wrong hands.

(Don't mean to jump your reply KoM)

Edited because I HATE how you can't cut and paste when posting!

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 3/22/2006 5:25:53 PM >

(in reply to angelic)

RE: Collars when married to others - 3/22/2006 5:27:28 PM

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Personally, I don't think that the one collared should be married, as that does complicate things. As a Married Master, married to a completely vanilla wife, who I love dearly, I enjoy playing with my slaves, and I feel that I can and do give the time necessary for both. Maybe I'm lucky, I don't know, but it has worked for me for many years, and I know that I am happy with the way things are.

quote:

ORIGINAL: upherass

The other collaring post got me thinking about the committment they represent to many. Most agree it IS a committment, though the level of it varies among the membership here, based on the other question.
So then, do you think if one or both partners are committed to others by marriage that they can FULLY commit to a lifestyle collar, and the responsibility it entails?

I don't think so, but I have never been in that position, nor would I be.

_____________________________

Master Buckeye

"IGNORANCE CAN BE CURED WITH EDUCATION; BUT STUPIDITY IS HOPELESS!"

(in reply to upherass)

RE: Collars when married to others - 3/22/2006 5:30:23 PM

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i agree 200%.. but what if she wasn't a slave when she went into the relationship? What if just for shits and giggles that she truly believed (because she was led to believe) that she was going into a monogoumous relationship... Then because He is 'king of his domain' and 'you can either agree or see the curb'... when does this become a cheating situation? Or does it? He gets to change his mind... and she can take it or leave it?

_____________________________

~....and once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return.~ -- Leonardo de Vinci

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

RE: Collars when married to others - 3/22/2006 5:33:52 PM

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does she know You play? then i have zero problem with it. If she doesn't then you are lying to her about Your needs.

_____________________________

~....and once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return.~ -- Leonardo de Vinci

(in reply to MasterBuckeye)

RE: Collars when married to others - 3/22/2006 5:36:37 PM

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how would you feel if the One you have given your heart and soul to suddenly decided you weren't enough and He needed another?

_____________________________

~....and once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return.~ -- Leonardo de Vinci

(in reply to slavejali)

RE: Collars when married to others - 3/22/2006 5:43:59 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic

i agree 200%.. but what if she wasn't a slave when she went into the relationship? What if just for shits and giggles that she truly believed (because she was led to believe) that she was going into a monogoumous relationship... Then because He is 'king of his domain' and 'you can either agree or see the curb'... when does this become a cheating situation? Or does it? He gets to change his mind... and she can take it or leave it?

Oh good, you seem to be on the same page as everyone else. Nice to see your understanding.

_____________________________

If you love somebody, you have to be willing to break them.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.

Have you slapped your slave today?

(in reply to angelic)

RE: Collars when married to others - 3/22/2006 5:48:11 PM

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LMAO... just caught up on the thread.... sense it was only an OPINION... and my OWN thoughts on the OP... nice to see others seem to think I need to get out more. I get out enough thanks.

_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.

(in reply to angelic)

RE: Collars when married to others - 3/22/2006 5:58:51 PM

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mrd... let me make this perfectly clear... i am in no way in agreement with you on anything.

(sorry back to the thread)

_____________________________

~....and once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return.~ -- Leonardo de Vinci

(in reply to MrDiscipline44)

RE: Collars when married to others - 3/22/2006 6:30:11 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic

how would you feel if the One you have given your heart and soul to suddenly decided you weren't enough and He needed another?

I was slave at one time awhile ago, although admittedly it was only for 6 months. The man I called Master acted on a decision without telling me first; i.e. he moved to a different state instead of moving to be with me. I considered begging for release, but....okay, we get one stupid mistake in our lives, don't we? He continued to promise that I would be able to come to him, and then told me that when I did re-locate his house would be poly. I expressed the opinion that he had not kept the promise(s) he had made to me. I questioned his ability to be master of a poly household since he seemed unable to fulfill his obligations as master to me. He, of course, chose to view that as proof that I was 'narrow minded'. I didn't care anymore.
I would have been willing to consider it under different circumstances.
I believe, in answer to your question, that a responsible Master/Mistress will at the very least, discuss and explain any changes in the rules, in order to give slave the opportunity to consider the options.

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to angelic)

RE: Collars when married to others - 3/22/2006 6:54:42 PM

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My Lord is at work so is unable to respond to this thread, but if needed he will make a comment...

quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic

then i have to ask this question...(some assumptions here... so i apologize for that)... she is standing there vowing to you and You are vowing to her... and so easily you can say 'kiss my butt' you are gone?

You have made some big assumptions here. He made no indication of how easy or hard the situation would be, he made no statements on how he would do it. You have taken your own perceptions and made a very inaccurate and negative judgment about what he said. The fact is you asked a very simple question and he gave a very simple but direct answer to you. The assumptions and judgments made reflect your own narrow view point and not the view of those who answered your question.

quote:

exactly LA... you would be honest and straight up with them...

I can’t help but think that this is inferring that my Lord would not be “honest and straight up” otherwise the wording of this statement would be completely different.

quote:

ok... but what if she felt threatened by you kyra? soooo... poof divorced... (lol no wonder we are such a litigious society)... don't like it??? sue....

what if she felt truly threatened by you kyra? what then? oh ok... she gets to divorce Him... walk away... leave... *major eye roll here*.

In your hasty assumptions and negative judgments of our life, you neglected to ask some very important questions:

Who suggested poly and the addition of others in the relationship? Alandra
Who suggested the concept of the M/s relationship? Alandra

Alandra introduced these things into the relationship and considerable discussion was had before exploring poly or labeling their relationship as M/s. Truthfully, they were living an M/s relationship from day one though they did not label it as such. The authority structure already existed where he had complete authority in her life; this is just who they are and not a role they play.

Considering that alandra has always dreamed of and desired a poly relationship and told him this before they were married, means that I am a dream come true for her and not a threat. Neither entered the marriage with the assumption or idea that it would be monogamous, so no vow of monogamy was made.

Considering that they have been together for almost 20 years and she has yet to feel that he has threatened her relationship with him by introducing others into their lives, her relationship with him isn’t going to be threatened by the introduction of me.

Now consider this…. Two people are in an M/s relationship. The master wants to do something and the slave says “no”. The master then says, “Ok, I won’t do it”. Who has the authority? Not the master. To us, that is not an M/s relationship.

To say “no” in my M/s relationship is equivalent to saying, “my Lord, I no longer wish to be in an M/s relationship with you.” That is the consequence of saying no. So who has broken vows here? Not the master; the slave has broken their vow to obey.

I will reiterate, that saying "no" is vastly different from asking to give information about our thoughts, opinions or feeling regarding what he wants to do. This is encouraged by him. However, at the end of the day he will make the decision on what will be done and we will either it accept it or the M/s relationship will end.

Knight's kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to angelic)

RE: Collars when married to others - 3/22/2006 7:41:10 PM

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Great response, kyra.

_____________________________

If you love somebody, you have to be willing to break them.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.

Have you slapped your slave today?

(in reply to kyraofMists)

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