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Bone spurs...advice needed!! - 1/3/2010 2:54:23 AM

sirsholly

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I finally insisted (in a subbly way, of course *Get yer ass in there for an x-ray, damnit!!*) that Hubby see our PCP about the pain, swelling and grinding in his knee. The x-rays show a bone spur.

The PCP recommended an appointment with an orthopod, of course, and said surgery is probably the only option.

Agreeable and sensible sort that he is (note dripping sarcasm here)...Hubby has stated that if he can't be back to work in a few days, he will not have the surgery (oy vey). He has a job that is very physical and requires him to be on his feet for as long as ten hours a day. His job is also dangerous at times, and if there is a problem he has to be able to haul ass, and fast.

I have a medical background that is totally void of experience with bone spurs, although i do have experience (mine) with arthroscopic surgery (it hurt).

So...I am throwing a few questions out to the masses here, and asking for any/ all help...

-What are the reprocussions of delaying the surgery? Does it affect the joint, making the repair more difficult and/or the recovery period longer?

-Is there anything that can be done now, without surgery? He is taking 2400mg of Ibuprofin a day for the swelling and that can't continue without risking a bleeding ulcer. Heat/cold packs? A wrap or brace?

-Would a steroid injection be helpful?

-How long is the recovery time? I know every surgery is different...i am just asking for personal experience on this one. How long until you were fully weight bearing? How long until you were released to return to work?

-Was physical therapy needed, and if so, for how long?

-Pain factor? How bad?

-How is it now? Was the surgery a success?

Thanks for any and all responses.

< Message edited by sirsholly -- 1/3/2010 3:35:35 AM >

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RE: Bone spurs...advice needed!! - 1/3/2010 6:03:56 AM

GotSteel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly
-What are the reprocussions of delaying the surgery? Does it affect the joint, making the repair more difficult and/or the recovery period longer?

That's what my dad did and it eventually ground the cartilage away to the point he needed a knee replacement.

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RE: Bone spurs...advice needed!! - 1/3/2010 6:33:58 AM

Louve00

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Ok, Holly. Just for you I looked it up on WebMD. It said surgery isn't always needed (a plus for the hubby!) I just glanced at the link, but here it is http://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/bone-spur-topic-overview

I do know, I did know a woman who had bone spurs in her feet, and her doc told her to take calcium. But I knew that woman about 20 years ago, don't see her anymore, don't know what kind of calcium she was told to take, or the outcome of her taking it, if she did.

I do hope it works out for him....and you!

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RE: Bone spurs...advice needed!! - 1/3/2010 9:02:20 AM

DarkSteven

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I recommend serious drinking and sedatives.

Oops... you meant ways for JIM to deal with the situation, not YOU. My error.

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RE: Bone spurs...advice needed!! - 1/3/2010 9:22:26 AM

LafayetteLady

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Sorry to hear about your husband's problem. That kind of pain sucks.

Understanding that he needs to be able to haul ass quickly, can he do that now with all the pain he is in? Different surgeons will give different recovery times. My orthopeodist told me 6 weeks in a cast, the surgeon said 4 (cast coming off this week, hooray!)

I have never understood why people will choose to live with a fixable problem and possibly make it worse by delaying. While I can't say for sure, in all liklihood if they are surgically doing anything to the knee, some physical therapy is going to be necessary. A lot will depend on the exact location of the spur, as well as the size.

A steroid injection isn't going to do anything to the bone spur although it could reduce some of the swelling around it. It doesn't solve the problem and could over the long run, by encouraging him delaying things, make things worse.

Is his job busier in the winter or the summer? At this point, I would suggest allowing the surgeon to impress upon him the risks involved in not having the surgery and then you can work on him for the most "convenient" time to have the surgery. Perhaps some vacation time is waiting in the wings and a family vacation can be taken while he recovers from the surgery.

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RE: Bone spurs...advice needed!! - 1/3/2010 11:04:02 AM

sirsholly

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly
-What are the reprocussions of delaying the surgery? Does it affect the joint, making the repair more difficult and/or the recovery period longer?

That's what my dad did and it eventually ground the cartilage away to the point he needed a knee replacement.

thats what i was afraid of...

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RE: Bone spurs...advice needed!! - 1/3/2010 11:06:32 AM

sirsholly

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Louve00

Ok, Holly. Just for you I looked it up on WebMD. It said surgery isn't always needed (a plus for the hubby!) I just glanced at the link, but here it is http://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/bone-spur-topic-overview

I do know, I did know a woman who had bone spurs in her feet, and her doc told her to take calcium. But I knew that woman about 20 years ago, don't see her anymore, don't know what kind of calcium she was told to take, or the outcome of her taking it, if she did.

I do hope it works out for him....and you!

thank you for the link Louve...good info.

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RE: Bone spurs...advice needed!! - 1/3/2010 11:07:42 AM

sirsholly

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

I recommend serious drinking and sedatives.

Oops... you meant ways for JIM to deal with the situation, not YOU. My error.

*snort*

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RE: Bone spurs...advice needed!! - 1/3/2010 11:13:12 AM

lusciouslips19

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Shots may help.

His current condition and continued swelling will change his posture and create other pain in his body by changes in his gait. Likely he is already feeling the effects of limping and the tightening to the other side. As a massage therapist I can say people have been helped with shots, people have been happy with knee replacements and some not happy. I know an elderly lady that was happy with the first knee replacement but unhappy with the last which was a newer technique. I think life will be so much better when they can invent cartilage replacement. There have been experimenting with that in the vertebrae but nothing I know of with knees. Either way, there is recovery periods that dont happen over night. But you know that?

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RE: Bone spurs...advice needed!! - 1/3/2010 11:15:00 AM

sirsholly

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

Sorry to hear about your husband's problem. That kind of pain sucks.

Understanding that he needs to be able to haul ass quickly, can he do that now with all the pain he is in? Different surgeons will give different recovery times. My orthopeodist told me 6 weeks in a cast, the surgeon said 4 (cast coming off this week, hooray!)

I have never understood why people will choose to live with a fixable problem and possibly make it worse by delaying. While I can't say for sure, in all liklihood if they are surgically doing anything to the knee, some physical therapy is going to be necessary. A lot will depend on the exact location of the spur, as well as the size.

A steroid injection isn't going to do anything to the bone spur although it could reduce some of the swelling around it. It doesn't solve the problem and could over the long run, by encouraging him delaying things, make things worse.

Is his job busier in the winter or the summer? At this point, I would suggest allowing the surgeon to impress upon him the risks involved in not having the surgery and then you can work on him for the most "convenient" time to have the surgery. Perhaps some vacation time is waiting in the wings and a family vacation can be taken while he recovers from the surgery.

Thanks for responding LL. Believe it or not, he doesn't even limp (yet) it hasn't effected his ability to walk or run. But common sense says it is just a matter of time.

There is no real seasonal down time with his job, and i already suggested recovery on a beach would work really well. Of course he countered that he did not want to spend our family vacation on crutches.

I think he just needs time to come to terms with the possibility of surgery and work out the details in his own mind. Bless him, he has never been laid up before and boy, does he not like it!!!

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RE: Bone spurs...advice needed!! - 1/3/2010 12:27:42 PM

mummyman321

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

So...I am throwing a few questions out to the masses here, and asking for any/ all help...

-Would a steroid injection be helpful?

Thanks for any and all responses.

A steroid injection relieves pain by reducing the swelling/inflamation in the knee or whatever area the injection is given. This will relieve pain temporarily if the majority of the pain is due to swelling. In your Master's case I do not know how much pain is due to rubbing of the bone spur and how much is due to swelling. So you might get pain relief from a steroid injection. How much relief he would get will only be known by trying a shot.

How long will the relief last? hard to say, can be anywhere from a couple of weeks to 6 months. Usually as the condition (bone spur) gets worse the less time the shot works.

Final Note - A steroid injection is a mere bandaide to the problem you are describing. At best it can be used as a stop gap until the surgery can be done. To eliminate the damage being done to the knee and relieve the pain, it sounds like surgery is needed.

I would ask the doctor all of the questions you have posted on this board. And even a second opinion never hurts.

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RE: Bone spurs...advice needed!! - 1/3/2010 2:15:17 PM

LafayetteLady

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Ah, well I can really understand the disdain for crutches! But, who said go to a beach? There is always amusement parks, botanical parks and zoos. All things I know your little one would enjoy. They have scooters and wheelchairs. I know when I injured my knee a few years back, we lived near Busch Gardens in the Tampa Bay area and vacationed at the one in Williamsburg. Those scooters were great! Got us to the front of the line quicker, too.

They are a damn comfort to have at the grocery store and the Walmarts around here too! It's lots of fun doing doughnuts in the Walmart aisles in my little scooter, lol.

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RE: Bone spurs...advice needed!! - 1/3/2010 3:16:11 PM

chellekitty

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i would look up the reprecussions of getting steroid shots in the joints before doing them...it can be scary...plus the shots will only reduce swelling and do nothing for the piece(s) of bone growing into the joint which need to be cleaned out...my mother had orthoscopic surgery cleaning out the bone spurs but due to the cartillage wearing down eventually had to have her knee replaced and is doing SOOOO much better with the new knee, but that was years after the initial problem...i guess it would depend on how much his knee is hampering him on what he should do...it will get worse, but how fast and in what manner is dependent on him...

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RE: Bone spurs...advice needed!! - 1/9/2010 9:41:00 PM

cagliostro

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I had bone spurs on the back side of the kneecap on both knees. Surgery was the only option as well. Though I had another problem with the tendons. I had both scoped, but I'm not sure if it had just been the spurs how long it would have taken. I doubt that there is any surgery that will leave him ok to work in a day. But I don't really know. Braces, pills, etc. won't work because fundamentally the problem is a spike of calcium that is tearing at the soft tissue. Realistically the only thing to do is have them filed down. Everything else is temporary or treating the symptoms not the cause(like the ibuprofen). I had both my knees done at once, which put me on my back for like a month, and had my legs in braces for a while after that. I did PT for about a month. The only thing that really hurt was once a spider fell on my foot and I yanked it back a few days after surgery. Even that wasn't too bad. And as I said before they had to operate on the tendons as well for me. I was able to be up and around a few days after, but full weight bearing was longer. If it's arthroscopic the actual process leaves very little damage, what was most annoying was that they inflated my legs with saline to make the surgery easier to perform. So I had michelin man legs for a while. Did it work? Yup. Soooo much better now. I would have gone through twice as much pain for twice as long for this.

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RE: Bone spurs...advice needed!! - 1/9/2010 9:48:57 PM

kajirastar

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i have worked with many with bone spurs, most of them on the feet and ankles. and i would then seriously recommend a really good reflexologist. i would still suggest calling them and seeing what they had to say. Although it can be painful while they are working on it, it is way less painful than the alternatives, and cheaper in most cases. A really great massage therapist or even better a physical therapist who believes in this treatment would work wonders!
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RE: Bone spurs...advice needed!! - 1/10/2010 1:21:58 AM

LafayetteLady

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kajirastar

i have worked with many with bone spurs, most of them on the feet and ankles. and i would then seriously recommend a really good reflexologist. i would still suggest calling them and seeing what they had to say. Although it can be painful while they are working on it, it is way less painful than the alternatives, and cheaper in most cases. A really great massage therapist or even better a physical therapist who believes in this treatment would work wonders!
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I am just curious, how does that get rid of the bone spurs?

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RE: Bone spurs...advice needed!! - 1/10/2010 3:06:15 AM

sirsholly

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quote:

Did it work? Yup. Soooo much better now.

glad it worked you for! Thanks for the info...i never thought of it, but it stands to reason the spurs can damage the tendons, nerves etc.

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RE: Bone spurs...advice needed!! - 1/10/2010 3:10:19 AM

sirsholly

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Now i have another question...for those who have a history of bone spurs, were any diet changes recommended?
With those who have uremic crystallizations secondary to gout, they are advised to monitor their iodine intake. So what about those who have spurs secondary to calcium?

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RE: Bone spurs...advice needed!! - 1/10/2010 5:41:14 AM

BitaTruble

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quote:

-What are the reprocussions of delaying the surgery?

Continued growth of the spur.

quote:

Does it affect the joint, making the repair more difficult and/or the recovery period longer?

For me, it did both. The attempted repair was more difficult and the recovery period was longer. I never got back full use (rated at 84% recovery here)

quote:

-Is there anything that can be done now, without surgery? He is taking 2400mg of Ibuprofin a day for the swelling and that can't continue without risking a bleeding ulcer. Heat/cold packs? A wrap or brace?

For me, nothing helped but meds did mask some of the pain.

quote:

-Would a steroid injection be helpful?

Not in shrinking the spurs but maybe for other things. I don't know if the cost to benefit ratio is worth it. For this (and all your questions) the best advice will come from his doctor (and I would get at least a few opinions on the subject as well from at least a few different doctors.)

quote:

-How long is the recovery time? I know every surgery is different...i am just asking for personal experience on this one. How long until you were fully weight bearing? How long until you were released to return to work?

As I said, I never made a full recovery and the two surgery's I had ended a career goal I had set for myself. My first surgery went very poorly and exascerbated my condition. The second one was more successful and I got most of the feeling back (one of the spurs was pressing on a nerve).

quote:

-Was physical therapy needed, and if so, for how long?

I did corn cob PT to start then moved on to exercise etc. It's been awhile but I think it was something like 4 or 5 months of PT for me and a year after the second surgery is when I was rated at 84% recovered and it was felt that I would not improve beyond that level (and they were quite accurate.. that was as good as it ever got for me).

quote:

-Pain factor? How bad?

I had to end up having part of my elbow removed and to this day when I smack my funny bone, it's really not at all funny!

quote:

-How is it now? Was the surgery a success?

Compared to what it was, it's much better now but I'll never be able to be a pro bowler, that's for sure. I don't have the physical strength or stamina I used to have because I start to ache after about 15 frames but I still bowl a pretty mean first game! Oh, and I don't have the flexibility I used to have either. As an example; my right arm tied behind my back is a thing of the past due to the two surgery's and loss of flexibility and that sucks because I'm right handed so having this all happen to my right elbow and hand was a bitch. Had to brush my teeth with my left hand while I was in the cast and jabbed my toothbrush the wrong way MANY times!)

In my case, I had no options except surgery because the spurs started to grow after I had my accident. I can't say for sure the accident is the cause of the spurs but the spurs were found as a result of the accident and may have given me grief in any event, but I never got (and don't have) spurs in any place other than the accident sight itself.. so, who knows?

Just my personal experiences that I'm sharing. Wishing Jim best of luck!

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RE: Bone spurs...advice needed!! - 1/10/2010 6:02:20 AM

Domin8tingUrDrmz

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I was in a pretty bad car accident over a decade ago. This accident caused my right shoulder to dislocate, and the dislocation caused a few bone spurs to occur at the site of the injury (I had other issues as well due to this accident, but I'll keep to the spurs). The spurs were pressing on several nerves within my shoulder even though the shoulder was dislocated. I had no feeling on the right side of my upper body. Obviously I had to have my shoulder repositioned, and the ER doc did this w/o discovering the spurs and other damage. My attorney recommeded an orthopoedic surgeon who told me that my rotator cuff was damaged and the spurs were causing the numbness. He operated, and it took a good month for the swelling to subside and about a year and a half of physical therapy. I recovered to about 70% usage, so I don't have full strength, or full mobility and never will, BUT, the pain has reduced tremendously.

My mother on the other hand, she had calcium spurs on her heels. The doc just made a small cut, shaved the spurs, and stitched her back up. She hasn't had any problems since. She healed in a few weeks and was moving around pretty well in a few days (with some tenderness at the stitch location).

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