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RE: why do some women feel that being hard to handle...... - 1/5/2010 8:33:05 AM

zephyroftheNorth

Posts: 8159
Joined: 10/5/2009
From: The Great Frozen North
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Andalusite

Zephyr, I specifically was referring to her third quote, "I won't submit to just anyone!" but you could well be right! I left the rest in for context. I try very hard to please my Master, and I'm very much willing to change myself to his will. I think the "doormat" speak is putting other people down, and don't use it. Heck, if he wants to wipe his feet on me, that's his perogative, for that matter.

Still, again, it's all in the wording. "I won't submit to just anyone!" (exclamation point) is different from "I don't submit to anyone" (no exclaimation point). It's a subtle difference but in my mind I see a certain defiance and standing arms folded on her chest in the first, a simple statement of fact in the second.

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(in reply to Andalusite)

RE: why do some women feel that being hard to handle...... - 1/5/2010 8:36:10 AM

Posts: 1237
Joined: 9/30/2009
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

quote:

ORIGINAL: UniqueRaven

But an anteater could easily be made *into* a doormat.......

(i'm so sorry Jeffff, i couldn't resist.....)

sigh....time for the brainbleach....gee thanks julie

Zeph, my apologies for causing you to bleach your brain twice in 24 hours. It isn't a goal of mine, for sure.....

Jeffff, perhaps you're embracing that "fursona" a little tightly today?

And back on topic: The reason i state that "i am a doormat" is to point out that labels are just that, labels, even the ones we use all the time such as "Dom" or "Owner" or "Master" or "slave." The context is purely up to the individual - and their relationship partner(s). Beyond that i don't argue semantics....i just work to portray my understanding of the concepts as they apply to me.

*edited b/c i'm not awake and i forgot the quotey-thingy.

< Message edited by UniqueRaven -- 1/5/2010 8:50:34 AM >

_____________________________

"My life has no purpose, no direction, no aim, no meaning, and yet I'm happy. I can't figure it out. What am I doing right?" ~Snoopy (Charles Schultz)

My blog is at http://takinghishand.wordpress.com

(in reply to Jeffff)

RE: why do some women feel that being hard to handle...... - 1/5/2010 8:38:15 AM

Posts: 17673
Joined: 11/26/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsDDom

quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsDDom

quote:

quote:

the sub/slave has sought me out and I can in turn reject them for such behavior

There are some of us who are persued by Doms, just a little FYI. And what "such behavior" are you referring to? You are quoting after osf admits he loves sophie who has just admitted that she would defend herself for being abused. Can you clarify please?

...my comment is based on the OPs original question---that is what I replied to. I did not read any other replies...

Thank you for clarifying, D.

Best,
sunshine

Now, clarify the above bold in red...since I was specifically speaking about myself. I always find people get defensive when another person is specifically speaking about themselves.

You know D, I was really trying to get a message across to osf and using your post to try to do it. Perhaps it was unfair of me. My apologies for creating confusion.

Best,
sunshine

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(in reply to MsDDom)

RE: why do some women feel that being hard to handle...... - 1/5/2010 8:47:10 AM

Posts: 2492
Joined: 1/25/2009
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Zephyr, I've gotten pretty worked up about it when someone tried to push before. I tend to push back, or else withdraw and grumble about them a bit. It hasn't come up with anyone I've dated, but a couple of initial contacts and random people at playparties/munches have pushed my buttons pretty hard, as have some of the posts on the Gorean forum. That's not my usual style though, and I wouldn't be compatible with anyone who I was that at odds with in the first place. For a few years, I was unwilling to consider being a submissive, in large part due to those confrontations both online and in person. I perceived people who identified as dominant as far more threatening than someone who used "top" or "sadist" as a label, and far more likely to demand things of me that I didn't want. Once I actually experienced it, it felt very natural, and it was very difficult to truly resist anything my partner wanted of me. I guess I can understand there being a difference between that and defiance toward a potential partner, but if they have that kind of conflict, I think it's more likely that it's a compatibility issue.

< Message edited by Andalusite -- 1/5/2010 8:48:22 AM >

(in reply to UniqueRaven)

RE: why do some women feel that being hard to handle...... - 1/5/2010 9:30:27 AM

agirl

Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

quote:

I mean as a fantasy, sure, but reality? No way.

quote:

lots state that's the way they want to be treated, lots

Thus my fantasy comment. I personally prefer reality. Quirky, eh?

In part, this is likely true.

I'd never, in a month of Sundays say that,*I want to be treated like a doormat* .....but there again, I'd never say * I will NOT be treated like a doormat* either. Neither of them would be reasonable or true comments from me.

I've never looked at what people *say* on a profile as having anything to do with me. As far as I'm concerned, I consider it as the conclusion they've reached, to date.

Whenever I've been involved with someone, (few that it might be).....nothing we previously *thought* went unchallenged.

I'm not annoyingly hard to own, but I would still likely appear to be for anyone that wanted a naturally submissive girl......I'm not a lot of people's cup of tea as I'm not submissive by nature.

There's a big difference between having your AUTHORITY challenged, and being challenged by the fact that you own someone that simply doesn't have a *submissive* nature.

I asked to be owned.......I can't wiggle, waggle and play games with it, whether I'm submissive by nature or not. I wasn't forced into it, he doesn't *need* me and I'm not completing some aspect of him.

If I don't want his authority then it would have been rather stupid of me to have asked for it. Both of us are able to recognise that being owned isn't necessarily easy for me.....and yet , be able to face the pragmatic fact that I/ME/agirl........asked for it.

agirl

if i read that right you look on it as a calling, whether you like every aspect of your existence with him or not

No, not a calling......lol

I see it as something I asked for. I wanted his authority. That meant that I had to accept what that means. It isn't going to make the cockles of my heart warm all of the time.......and it doesn't.

I'm not submissive , but I'm a fairly rational person who can recognise that, despite my lack of submissive *feelings*, being in an M/s relationship with THIS person was likely to enhance my life. I accepted that it wasn't going to be a *walk in the park*.

No, I don't like *every* aspect of my existence with him........ but I've never liked *every* aspect of my existence with anyone , including my children.

I asked to have the kids, whichever way you look at it. I asked to be owned........... it's my responsibility to *get on with it*. I can't pretend to be oblivious to the things I asked for.... or get away with...* it wasn't what I expected*....lol

At varying points I've wanted to thrust my children into any passing gypsy's basket. And at times I really wish I wasn't owned..It's often irritating, annoying and frustrating in the moment. In the big picture it's just where I'm at my most content.

agirl

(in reply to osf)

RE: why do some women feel that being hard to handle...... - 1/5/2010 9:37:25 AM

osf

Posts: 3288
Joined: 10/19/2009
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quote:

No, not a calling......lol

I see it as something I asked for. I wanted his authority. That meant that I had to accept what that means. It isn't going to make the cockles of my heart warm all of the time.......and it doesn't.

I'm not submissive , but I'm a fairly rational person who can recognise that, despite my lack of submissive *feelings*, being in an M/s relationship with THIS person was likely to enhance my life. I accepted that it wasn't going to be a *walk in the park*.

No, I don't like *every* aspect of my existence with him........ but I've never liked *every* aspect of my existence with anyone , including my children.

I asked to have the kids, whichever way you look at it. I asked to be owned........... it's my responsibility to *get on with it*. I can't pretend to be oblivious to the things I asked for.... or get away with...* it wasn't what I expected*....lol

At varying points I've wanted to thrust my children into any passing gypsy's basket. And at times I really wish I wasn't owned..It's often irritating, annoying and frustrating in the moment. In the big picture it's just where I'm at my most content.

agirl

i liken it to a nuns calling , a vocation you chose to follow whether you feel like it at the moment or not, whether you totally agree with it at the moment or not, a sense of responsibility to what you've chosen and your sense of integrity

i think something like that is needed to carry you through the low times

< Message edited by osf -- 1/5/2010 9:41:01 AM >

_____________________________

all around nice guy and creative misogynist

i'm not very skilled so i just hit harder

i want a woman to make into the woman she never wanted to become

(in reply to agirl)

RE: why do some women feel that being hard to handle...... - 1/5/2010 9:44:26 AM

Posts: 1237
Joined: 9/30/2009
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

i liken it to a nuns calling , a vocation you chose to follow whether you feel like it at the moment or not, whether you totally agree with it at the moment or not, a sense of responsibility to what you've chosen and your sense of integrity

osf, this post does intuitively make sense to me, even though i'm no nun, ha ha (well, maybe if my Owner wanted me to dress as one, but i digress).

i think many would argue that slavery isn't a "calling" though. Everything else you say about it being a "vocation" rings more true to me. But, again, we're getting into semantics. It is no more a calling, or not, than whether a slave is a doormat, or not. It simply is what it is, as defined by those that are involved.

j

_____________________________

"My life has no purpose, no direction, no aim, no meaning, and yet I'm happy. I can't figure it out. What am I doing right?" ~Snoopy (Charles Schultz)

My blog is at http://takinghishand.wordpress.com

(in reply to osf)

RE: why do some women feel that being hard to handle...... - 1/5/2010 9:46:26 AM

osf

Posts: 3288
Joined: 10/19/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: UniqueRaven

quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

i liken it to a nuns calling , a vocation you chose to follow whether you feel like it at the moment or not, whether you totally agree with it at the moment or not, a sense of responsibility to what you've chosen and your sense of integrity

osf, this post does intuitively make sense to me, even though i'm no nun, ha ha (well, maybe if my Owner wanted me to dress as one, but i digress).

i think many would argue that slavery isn't a "calling" though. Everything else you say about it being a "vocation" rings more true to me. But, again, we're getting into semantics. It is no more a calling, or not, than whether a slave is a doormat, or not. It simply is what it is, as defined by those that are involved.

j

another way to think, it is what you have dedicated yourself too

_____________________________

all around nice guy and creative misogynist

i'm not very skilled so i just hit harder

i want a woman to make into the woman she never wanted to become

(in reply to UniqueRaven)

RE: why do some women feel that being hard to handle...... - 1/5/2010 9:55:26 AM

Posts: 1237
Joined: 9/30/2009
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline

Well yes, but does every woman who identifies herself as slave dedicate herself to that slavery?

As others have pointed out, many women have multiple obligations and "roles" in life. Slave may just be one of them, due to the realities of life. Does that make her "less" of a slave?

Again, i realize that you speak from your experiences, but if i may, i encourage you to consider when you post that you tend to speak with pretty broad categorizations. If you considered toning them down a bit you might get a bit more thoughtful responses and a few less upset ones.

_____________________________

"My life has no purpose, no direction, no aim, no meaning, and yet I'm happy. I can't figure it out. What am I doing right?" ~Snoopy (Charles Schultz)

My blog is at http://takinghishand.wordpress.com

(in reply to osf)

RE: why do some women feel that being hard to handle...... - 1/5/2010 9:57:36 AM

osf

Posts: 3288
Joined: 10/19/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: UniqueRaven

Well yes, but does every woman who identifies herself as slave dedicate herself to that slavery?

As others have pointed out, many women have multiple obligations and "roles" in life. Slave may just be one of them, due to the realities of life. Does that make her "less" of a slave?

Again, i realize that you speak from your experiences, but if i may, i encourage you to consider when you post that you tend to speak with pretty broad categorizations. If you considered toning them down a bit you might get a bit more thoughtful responses and a few less upset ones.

within the context of the relationship i think she should

just my opinion

< Message edited by osf -- 1/5/2010 9:58:43 AM >

_____________________________

all around nice guy and creative misogynist

i'm not very skilled so i just hit harder

i want a woman to make into the woman she never wanted to become

(in reply to UniqueRaven)

RE: why do some women feel that being hard to handle...... - 1/5/2010 10:01:53 AM

Posts: 1237
Joined: 9/30/2009
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

quote:

ORIGINAL: UniqueRaven

Well yes, but does every woman who identifies herself as slave dedicate herself to that slavery?

As others have pointed out, many women have multiple obligations and "roles" in life. Slave may just be one of them, due to the realities of life. Does that make her "less" of a slave?

Again, i realize that you speak from your experiences, but if i may, i encourage you to consider when you post that you tend to speak with pretty broad categorizations. If you considered toning them down a bit you might get a bit more thoughtful responses and a few less upset ones.

within the context of the relationship i think she should

just my opinion

i can agree with that.

i also agree that any relationship should be dedicated to by the parties involved who have made a commitment to each other. Not just the M/s relationships.

(and thank you for using the words "i think" and not just stating as fact)

_____________________________

"My life has no purpose, no direction, no aim, no meaning, and yet I'm happy. I can't figure it out. What am I doing right?" ~Snoopy (Charles Schultz)

My blog is at http://takinghishand.wordpress.com

(in reply to osf)

RE: why do some women feel that being hard to handle...... - 1/5/2010 10:03:33 AM

osf

Posts: 3288
Joined: 10/19/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: UniqueRaven

quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

quote:

ORIGINAL: UniqueRaven

Well yes, but does every woman who identifies herself as slave dedicate herself to that slavery?

As others have pointed out, many women have multiple obligations and "roles" in life. Slave may just be one of them, due to the realities of life. Does that make her "less" of a slave?

Again, i realize that you speak from your experiences, but if i may, i encourage you to consider when you post that you tend to speak with pretty broad categorizations. If you considered toning them down a bit you might get a bit more thoughtful responses and a few less upset ones.

within the context of the relationship i think she should

just my opinion

i can agree with that.

i also agree that any relationship should be dedicated to by the parties involved who have made a commitment to each other. Not just the M/s relationships.

(and thank you for using the words "i think" and not just stating as fact)

i like the concept that both serve the relationship

_____________________________

all around nice guy and creative misogynist

i'm not very skilled so i just hit harder

i want a woman to make into the woman she never wanted to become

(in reply to UniqueRaven)

RE: why do some women feel that being hard to handle...... - 1/5/2010 10:12:01 AM

Posts: 636
Joined: 11/13/2009
Status: offline

Just passing through to add my point of view on the word 'doormat'. it pleases me to be the doormat in the one that i am serving. A doormat to me does not equate mindless, instead in my life, one who can control their desires and wants for the higher good, which is Sir and the us. i am only 1 person's doormat, and do all i can to keep myself in great condition for Him; emotionally, physically and mentally. With that said, i am not my daughter's doormat, my clients doormat, the store clerk doormat, as the examples can go on and on.

_____________________________

Happily owned by MstrDark1

(in reply to osf)

RE: why do some women feel that being hard to handle...... - 1/5/2010 1:34:33 PM

agirl

Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

quote:

ORIGINAL: UniqueRaven

quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

i liken it to a nuns calling , a vocation you chose to follow whether you feel like it at the moment or not, whether you totally agree with it at the moment or not, a sense of responsibility to what you've chosen and your sense of integrity

osf, this post does intuitively make sense to me, even though i'm no nun, ha ha (well, maybe if my Owner wanted me to dress as one, but i digress).

i think many would argue that slavery isn't a "calling" though. Everything else you say about it being a "vocation" rings more true to me. But, again, we're getting into semantics. It is no more a calling, or not, than whether a slave is a doormat, or not. It simply is what it is, as defined by those that are involved.

j

another way to think, it is what you have dedicated yourself too

Up to a point , that's true. But I'd probably make the distinction that I'm dedicated to HIM, not to *slavery*. I'm owned because I wasn't given any other option.

agirl

(in reply to osf)

RE: why do some women feel that being hard to handle...... - 1/5/2010 1:35:45 PM

osf

Posts: 3288
Joined: 10/19/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

quote:

ORIGINAL: UniqueRaven

quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

i liken it to a nuns calling , a vocation you chose to follow whether you feel like it at the moment or not, whether you totally agree with it at the moment or not, a sense of responsibility to what you've chosen and your sense of integrity

osf, this post does intuitively make sense to me, even though i'm no nun, ha ha (well, maybe if my Owner wanted me to dress as one, but i digress).

i think many would argue that slavery isn't a "calling" though. Everything else you say about it being a "vocation" rings more true to me. But, again, we're getting into semantics. It is no more a calling, or not, than whether a slave is a doormat, or not. It simply is what it is, as defined by those that are involved.

j

another way to think, it is what you have dedicated yourself too

Up to a point , that's true. But I'd probably make the distinction that I'm dedicated to HIM, not to *slavery*. I'm owned because I wasn't given any other option.

agirl

millage may vary

_____________________________

all around nice guy and creative misogynist

i'm not very skilled so i just hit harder

i want a woman to make into the woman she never wanted to become

(in reply to agirl)

RE: why do some women feel that being hard to handle...... - 1/5/2010 3:10:43 PM

agirl

Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

quote:

ORIGINAL: UniqueRaven

quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

i liken it to a nuns calling , a vocation you chose to follow whether you feel like it at the moment or not, whether you totally agree with it at the moment or not, a sense of responsibility to what you've chosen and your sense of integrity

osf, this post does intuitively make sense to me, even though i'm no nun, ha ha (well, maybe if my Owner wanted me to dress as one, but i digress).

i think many would argue that slavery isn't a "calling" though. Everything else you say about it being a "vocation" rings more true to me. But, again, we're getting into semantics. It is no more a calling, or not, than whether a slave is a doormat, or not. It simply is what it is, as defined by those that are involved.

j

another way to think, it is what you have dedicated yourself too

Up to a point , that's true. But I'd probably make the distinction that I'm dedicated to HIM, not to *slavery*. I'm owned because I wasn't given any other option.

agirl

millage may vary

It may indeed and I've found it most likely does. I'm less of a willing slave and more of a conscript in that area.....lol

agirl

(in reply to osf)

RE: why do some women feel that being hard to handle...... - 1/5/2010 3:13:21 PM

osf

Posts: 3288
Joined: 10/19/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

quote:

ORIGINAL: UniqueRaven

quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

i liken it to a nuns calling , a vocation you chose to follow whether you feel like it at the moment or not, whether you totally agree with it at the moment or not, a sense of responsibility to what you've chosen and your sense of integrity

osf, this post does intuitively make sense to me, even though i'm no nun, ha ha (well, maybe if my Owner wanted me to dress as one, but i digress).

i think many would argue that slavery isn't a "calling" though. Everything else you say about it being a "vocation" rings more true to me. But, again, we're getting into semantics. It is no more a calling, or not, than whether a slave is a doormat, or not. It simply is what it is, as defined by those that are involved.

j

another way to think, it is what you have dedicated yourself too

Up to a point , that's true. But I'd probably make the distinction that I'm dedicated to HIM, not to *slavery*. I'm owned because I wasn't given any other option.

agirl

millage may vary

It may indeed and I've found it most likely does. I'm less of a willing slave and more of a conscript in that area.....lol

agirl

i spent 6 years in the army most of the time as an unwilling slave and the army can shoot you, great motivator, hmmmmmmm

< Message edited by osf -- 1/5/2010 3:14:05 PM >

_____________________________

all around nice guy and creative misogynist

i'm not very skilled so i just hit harder

i want a woman to make into the woman she never wanted to become

(in reply to agirl)

RE: why do some women feel that being hard to handle...... - 1/5/2010 5:34:02 PM

Posts: 2201
Joined: 4/28/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: osf
why do some women feel that being a brat/feisty/hand full makes them more desirable

I have to admit, I haven't read every post on this thread, but here are my

.....

Actually, one could ask "Why do some people feel that being a brat/feisty/hand full makes them more desirable?" Some Dominants like subs like that & I have no clue why. Maybe the D-type likes the challenge? Maybe the s-type is wanting a spanking or?? You would think, though, that, if someone calls herself a submissive, that's what she should act like, rather than trying to grab the power from her Dominant. Myself, I prefer to be submissive and ask/beg for a spanking if I'm aching for it, rather than being a brat. It takes all kinds I guess.

_____________________________

Member: Lance's Fag Hags.

"That's not just a chip on her shoulder, that's the whole potato!" ~Lady Angelika~

In lowering yourself to talking behind my back, you're perfectly positioned to kiss my ass.

An it harm none, do what ye wilt.

(in reply to osf)

RE: why do some women feel that being hard to handle...... - 1/5/2010 5:36:42 PM

Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline

Why do some women continue breathing after you have had your way with them?

I always question their submissiveness

Jeff

_____________________________

"If you don't live it, it won't come out your horn." Charlie Parker

(in reply to sweetsub1957)

RE: why do some women feel that being hard to handle...... - 1/5/2010 5:38:33 PM

Posts: 2201
Joined: 4/28/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

Why do some women continue breathing after you have had your way with them?

I always question their submissiveness

Jeff

_____________________________

Member: Lance's Fag Hags.

"That's not just a chip on her shoulder, that's the whole potato!" ~Lady Angelika~

In lowering yourself to talking behind my back, you're perfectly positioned to kiss my ass.

An it harm none, do what ye wilt.

(in reply to Jeffff)

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