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RE: forced femizition - 1/14/2010 4:32:47 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline 		You are framing the issue as one of trespass.

>I think the problem develops when a dominant woman says she is seeking a "submissive" (someone to serve her - specifically, with an emotional, romantic or connection on some level) and they are approached by "bottoms" who say they are submissive, but really they are looking to be topped.<

>There is a whole LOT of "bait and switch" out there<

The question is, how do you explain the message board trespassing here: aka women who don't like CDs -- going onto a forced fem thread -- getting snarky, issuing blanket negative statements, and otherwise ostracizing CDs or their kink orientation?

Where does this compelling need come from? The answer you seem to be putting forward is payback for past negative dating experiences.

I still say the better answer is a dislike of CDs and their orientation -- which instead of just being kink incompatibility becomes "you and your kink are fucked up -- selfish, too fetishistic, unmanly, etc."



< Message edited by cloudboy -- 1/14/2010 4:36:45 PM >

(in reply to AAkasha)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: forced femizition - 1/14/2010 4:39:45 PM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		Oh bull shit... A CD that comes in and treats themself as well as us, with a little respect, gets respect. Stop trying to make it something it isn't.

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Profile   Post #: 82
RE: forced femizition - 1/14/2010 4:43:46 PM   
AAkasha


Posts: 4429
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Venatrix

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

quote:

I said "men who have nothing to offer but their kink." Nowhere did I say that all men were like this. I was referring to those who fit that particular profile.


Your statement is indelibly a categorical negative, and it reflects bigoted thinking. Its not surprising you issue a denial and then insinuate something is wrong with me.

Compare and contrast:

"Who would ever hire blacks for this job?"

"No one, because black people have no strong work ethic?"

"Why do women come down on CDs seeking a partner who shares their kink."

"Because CDs have nothing to offer but their kink and they see every woman who identifies as a domina as nothing more than a means to fulfill that kink"


Your remarks were offensive to me before.  Now you are accusing me of being a racist.  You have gone beyond any level of decency.  I don't care if I get put on moderation for this:  Cloudboy, you are disgusting and you ought to be ashamed of yourself.  You're now saying that not wanting to play with a cross-dresser is the equivalent to thinking that black people have no work ethic?  WTF is wrong with you?  The only explanation for such an outrageous assumption is that you are mentally incapacitated.

I NEVER said that CDs have nothing to offer but their kink.  YOU have changed my words and repeated them as a quotation.  I invite everyone to re-read my post and see you for the liar you are.

And now, I'm out of here.  Permanently.  I don't need to hang around with scum like you.


Just ignore him. He baits femdoms because he likes the attention, any attention.  Let him get himself all wound up, most of the regulars see right through it and just ignore him. 


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(in reply to Venatrix)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: forced femizition - 1/14/2010 4:54:34 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

Oh bull shit... A CD that comes in and treats themself as well as us, with a little respect, gets respect. Stop trying to make it something it isn't.



I see that under dislikes you have: CROSSDRESSING.

Where does your impulse come from to post on this thead?

How exactly was the OP "disrespectful?"

(in reply to Lockit)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: forced femizition - 1/14/2010 5:02:24 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
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quote:

I'm sorry, but I'm forced to conclude that you either cannot or choose not to understand plain English.


Funny, if you want to call into question my own reading comprehension, please point out where I called you a "racist?"

As for the other stuff:

Once you started calling me "scum" "a liar" and "disgusting" I pretty much knew I had won the argument.

(in reply to Venatrix)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: forced femizition - 1/14/2010 5:22:10 PM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

Oh bull shit... A CD that comes in and treats themself as well as us, with a little respect, gets respect. Stop trying to make it something it isn't.



I see that under dislikes you have: CROSSDRESSING.

Where does your impulse come from to post on this thead?

How exactly was the OP "disrespectful?"


Dislikes in a lover... yes... dislikes as a friend (including shopping etc. and fellow kinkster... no way! The rest... going on your past posting history... the arguements that go no where... we will just have to disagree dude. I won't argue it.

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Profile   Post #: 86
RE: forced femizition - 1/14/2010 5:32:05 PM   
xxblushesxx


Posts: 9318
Joined: 11/3/2005
From: Kentucky
Status: offline 		I think this is why so many men call me and others like me looking for "forced" bi, "forced" fem and other things. I get to play the teasing, controlling domme, and they get to be "forced" to play out their fantasies. I think if you're not bringing anything else to the table but your own kink, call a phone sex operator, or see a pro domme. Everyone will be so much more satisfied!


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(in reply to Lockit)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: forced femizition - 1/14/2010 6:47:55 PM   
Andalusite


Posts: 2492
Joined: 1/25/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

quote:

I implied nothing of the sort.


Actually, I'd guess it's more a case that many women have a visceral, deep-seated dislike and distaste for men who have nothing to offer but their kink and who see every woman who identifies as a domina as nothing more than a means to fulfill that kink, and that's what drives their annoyance.

Your words, not mine. The broad sweeping generalization you make here is a categorical negative, and it implies selfishness on the part of CDs "who see every woman who identifies as a domina as nothing more than a means to fulfill that kink."

When you make such a statement about one particular person, its not bigoted, but when you apply it to a whole categorical group, it is.

Cloudboy, I think you've misunderstood her completely. She didn't say that all cross-dressers have nothing to offer but their kink, or that all men who are self-centered with a one-track-mind regarding kink are crossdressers. She just said that men who focus on kink first, or exclusively, tend to be unwanted by most dominant women. *Some* cross-dressers also fall into that category, but by no means all of them.

I happen to completely agree with her statement (not your interpretation of it), and when I was looking, I was open to cross-dressers, bottoms, and cross-dressing bottoms. However, they would have needed an attitude about cross-dressing that was compatible with mine, and have needs that worked with mine. If not, nothing wrong with that, we just weren't compatible! However, if someone approached me with "I want you to _fill in the blank_ in the first e-mail, I viewed them as not only incompatible, but also self-centered, having poor judgement, being indiscriminate, etc. It gave me a poor impression of their character, and of them as a person. What kink they were asking for, and whether or not I shared it, was pretty much immaterial.

Hardbodysub, I agree that I've seen several posts saying outright, or strongly implying, that bottoms aren't looking for relationships, or are selfish/self-centered, or are automatically kink-first. I've been in relatively long-term-relationships with a couple of wonderful bottoms, who weren't submissive, but were focused on our mutual pleasure and satisfaction. We did lots of vanilla things together, and they didn't necessarily have one particular kink they were focused on, they just primarily enjoyed sensation (S/M and bondage) rather than control (D/s).

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: forced femizition - 1/14/2010 8:18:06 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Cloudboy, I think you've misunderstood her completely. She didn't say that all cross-dressers have nothing to offer but their kink, or that all men who are self-centered with a one-track-mind regarding kink are crossdressers. She just said that men who focus on kink first, or exclusively, tend to be unwanted by most dominant women. *Some* cross-dressers also fall into that category, but by no means all of them.


I'm trained to read critically for a living.

This thread, the OP, and the subject line are about CDs seeking forced feminization.

The Venatrix rationale as to why women are hostile to CDs (and forced fem) was, and I quote verbatum:

>it's more a case that many women have a visceral, deep-seated dislike and distaste for men who have nothing to offer but their kink and who see every woman who identifies as a domina as nothing more than a means to fulfill that kink, and that's what drives their annoyance. <

In the context of this thread "men" equals "CDs" and kink equals CDing. Bondage, spanking, other things are not in play. With that in mind, an objective reading of the above statement reads as:

"it's more a case that many women have a visceral, deep-seated dislike and distaste for CDs who have nothing to offer but their kink and who see every woman who identifies as a domina as nothing more than a means to fulfill that kink, and that's what drives their annoyance. "

This is a categorical negative and blanket statement implying that CDs (more so than some other group) "have nothing to offer but their kink and who see every woman who identifies as a domina as nothing more than a means to fulfill that kink." The implication is that something is wrong with CDs and that they (the OP in particular in this case) deserve to be bashed for their orientation because as the sentence above claims -- they are selfish, self absorbed parasites when it comes to forging relationships with women.

The salient background fact here is that the OP did not throw himself at Venatrix selfishly asking her to serve his needs, no she came into his thread with her own negative baggage.

Why is that?

(in reply to Andalusite)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: forced femizition - 1/14/2010 8:28:12 PM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		Your critical reading is off and missing something important here. ANYONE who is focused on thier kink is met with some attitude around here. It doesn't matter what that kink is.

_____________________________

No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!


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Profile   Post #: 90
RE: forced femizition - 1/14/2010 8:40:07 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

Your critical reading is off and missing something important here. ANYONE who is focused on thier kink is met with some attitude around here. It doesn't matter what that kink is.

Except for me. Nobody better give me attitude! ;-)

- LA

_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 91
RE: forced femizition - 1/14/2010 8:44:27 PM   
Andalusite


Posts: 2492
Joined: 1/25/2009
Status: offline 		Cloudboy, I've often responded to a thread with a comment that is more general, when I feel it is indicated. Just because this particular thread was about CD's doesn't mean that Venatrix meant CD's when she said "men." She already clarified that you were incorrect in your take on her response. A lot of people respond to threads that ask " Who wants x?" to say "Not me!" I'm not sure why, but they do seem to find it rather satisfying.

quote:

ORIGINAL: OttersSwim
The pool of Women who are even open to a girlie boy of any persuasion is so very small to begin with. If we approach it only on -our- terms, then the chances of getting what we want are even further diminished.

We should not kid ourselves into thinking that these Ladies are just here to fulfill our dreams. They are not. Most are here for relationship that is meaningful and on their terms. Our best chance to meet our desires and needs are to meet them on their field, and on their terms. Kind of what it's about, eh?

Otter, back when I was looking, this came up with several potential partners. Only one of them seemed at all open to cross-dressing on my terms, or even terms that I'd find acceptable. The others all demanded that I say certain things to them, or that I get turned on just by looking at them in panties, or from their humiliation, or otherwise had unreasonable expectations about my motivation and mindset. If I hadn't previously had good experiences with cross-dressers, they might easily have put me off the whole idea.

I do think there needs to be a balance, and I don't think it's necessarily wrong for someone to want "forced femme" (especially if it is acknowledged as a roleplaying scene rather than how the Domme truly feels about him). I *do* think that being pushy and demanding about it is counterproductive. If that's something they need, they're welcome to pursue it with someone else. I just don't want them to attempt to get *me* to change my mind about it.


< Message edited by Andalusite -- 1/14/2010 8:46:37 PM >

(in reply to Lockit)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: forced femizition - 1/14/2010 8:58:22 PM   
stef


Posts: 10215
Joined: 1/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

The salient background fact here is that the OP did not throw himself at Venatrix selfishly asking her to serve his needs, no she came into his thread with her own negative baggage.

She has repeatedly told you that what you're reading into her statement is incorrect and she's the one with baggage?  That's rich.

I believe the technical term for that is 'projection.'

Let it go.

~stef


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Profile   Post #: 93
RE: forced femizition - 1/14/2010 9:45:17 PM   
KITTYLECTRO


Posts: 261
Joined: 10/26/2009
Status: offline 		Cloudboy, as a transgendered person I would like to sincerely express my gratitude to you for being so vocal against this unnecessary expression of bigotry. Thank you.

Best,

Kitty


_____________________________

Meow =^..^=
www.KittyLectro.com

(in reply to stef)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: forced femizition - 1/14/2010 10:02:23 PM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		It's bigotry to get an attitude about kinky people so focused on themselves and their kink that they totally cannot see that a dominant isn't a fetish toy? What is wrong with expecting people to have some social grace or a little respect when talking about their kink or whatever? Is it acceptable to just walk into a room and ask people how many there might want to force fem someone to the point of maybe doing harm with hormones? Or maybe think it odd that someone comes in and says... hey... been a while since I got laid... who wants to?

If someone wants respect, they ought to consider giving some. Bad behavior is bad behavior. Someone respectful about themselves and others... don't get attitude... they gain respect.

_____________________________

No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!


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Profile   Post #: 95
RE: forced femizition - 1/15/2010 12:35:37 PM   
stella41b


Posts: 4258
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: SW London (UK)
Status: offline 		Maybe it's because of my current health issues, I don't know, but having gone through the entire thread I just don't see where all this supposed bigotry is coming from the dommes who've responded to this thread.

I'm picking up a lot of 'been there, done that, got the T-shirt but not for me' and also a lot of 'what's in it for me?' type of concerns being voiced - which is understandable because we all ask this sort of question and I don't see why anyone would expect dommes to be any different or to accept anything less for play or for a relationship than anyone else. We are, taking it completely on face value looking at nothing more than a fantasy here - a popular one it would seem (judging by the websites and the numerous threads on numerous message boards you find on the Internet) - whereas the primary concern for a lot of dommes is in a relationship of some sort. Take away the fetish clothing, boots, put away the toys and even wash off the make up and you're still left with a woman with her own needs and wants and expectations from a potential partner.

But I also understand the OP, it's not easy for the crossdresser and I've spent some time myself in that similar headspace. While most people both male and female try to understand and don't bear the transgendered (across both genders - from the panty wearer and sissy to the full time transsexuals, mosaics and intersexed females) any ill feeling, many still have difficulties or feel uncomfortable over how to relate to the transgendered and there's hardly any men and women out there who would list 'transgendered' as a preference.

What's more there's plenty of competition out there and many a sissy or full time transsexual who would jump at a relationship without the 'forced feminization' element simply with someone who accepts them for who they are in reality. Those who do have stable partners who accept and support them are in a minority, and many more have either had to compromise and live the 'double life' compartmentalizing their crossdressing or expression of femininity in a separate place from their relationships, or those who - like me - have gone ahead and are transitioning full time alone and discovered that intimacy with another person, or even in some cases independence, comes much much harder than they at first anticipated.

But certain things cross my mind here. Forced feminization is quite often not what it appears to be on the surface. I can see the attraction in the fantasy of a virile male being stripped of his manhood and forced to be someone different to who he completely is, but then again it could also be someone who is transgendered who lacks the confidence and self-motivation (and or even the circumstances) to explore transitioning and the 'forced feminization' isn't any desire to be 'forced' at all. It's a cry for help, it's 'I'm struggling here with something I can't cope with on my own, I've got nobody to talk to, and I need someone who I can be open completely with and share this with..'

This in itself raises a few concerns, let alone potential red flags in the potential domme, for if the whole transition with the hormones and living full time as a woman is necessary, then how is that person functioning on a day to day basis? Can they function on a day to day basis? And who takes the responsibility in the event of that transgendered person getting a blood clot on their brain or lung or developing irreversible liver damage? Yes, taking hormones involves real risks, including sudden death, it's far more to think about than slutty clothing and female contraceptive tablets.

Then how do you deal with the social stigma? I'm transgendered and transitioning and one of the top three concerns of other people almost consistently, irrespective of whether they are men or women, concerns my genitalia and what my plans are for my genitalia. But then again I'm not interested in 'forced feminization', in fact, if someone suggested it to me I would be somewhat offended.

But the biggest concern is what you can offer someone back and what you bring to a relationship, and this is what I feel the dommes are - almost in unison - are saying.. What's in it for me?

You see the OP has fallen into the same trap a lot of people fall into here on this site - and it's not just crossdressers but it's people of both genders and people on both sides of the kneel. They have worked out the relationship all on their own, they have even worked out how they are going to be and how the other person is to interact with them and how the relationship will look - but they haven't found the other person.

This leads people to suspect that they are dealing with a 'One Kink Wonder' - that curious brand of male submissive who devotes their entire life, attention and energy to one kink or fetish, often at the expense of a meaningful relationship.

The key to finding a domme (or even a dom for that matter) is empowerment.. as in 'making something possible for someone else'.. I disagree that BDSM is all about kink and fetish, it starts and ends with people and you're not going to get anywhere with anyone until you are prepared to show the person behind the kink.

This is just my 0.02..

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(in reply to Lockit)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: forced femizition - 1/15/2010 3:11:43 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

She has repeatedly told you that what you're reading into her statement is incorrect and she's the one with baggage? That's rich.

I believe the technical term for that is 'projection.'


No, its "deconstruction."

Never pegged you as one to classify denials as evidence.

"What's the point" might be a better question. After the first denial followed by a gross misreading of my reply sprinkled with ad hominem diatribes -- hope for "progress" petty much went out the window.



< Message edited by cloudboy -- 1/15/2010 3:26:55 PM >

(in reply to stef)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: forced femizition - 1/15/2010 3:42:06 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline 		Cloudboy,

You've obviously had some frigging awful experience(s).  I wish you'd post about them - start a thread, get them out into the open . . . .

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Profile   Post #: 98
RE: forced femizition - 1/15/2010 4:06:20 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

Oh bull shit... A CD that comes in and treats themself as well as us, with a little respect, gets respect. Stop trying to make it something it isn't.



I see that under dislikes you have: CROSSDRESSING.

Where does your impulse come from to post on this thead?

How exactly was the OP "disrespectful?"


Dislikes in a lover... yes... dislikes as a friend (including shopping etc. and fellow kinkster... no way! The rest... going on your past posting history... the arguements that go no where... we will just have to disagree dude. I won't argue it.


Indeed Lockit, Its like cabbages. I could go for a walk on the beach with one, take it swimming or even have a beer. Just dont make me eat one, okay.

(in reply to Lockit)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: forced femizition - 1/15/2010 4:12:15 PM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		LOL Polite... I just put my cabbage in a blender/juicer with spinich, cucumber, celery, strawberries sometimes, with a little water and drink it. You wouldn't even know it was there. Want some? lol It's really cool and refreshing and good for you!

_____________________________

No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!


(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 100
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