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RE: why does he want a submissive over a nilla woman - 1/12/2010 10:21:48 AM   
LillyoftheVally


Posts: 1826
Joined: 7/22/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: masterofholly
Relationships take work. Calling yourself a Dominant does not exclude you or place you above it. It is a foreign concept to you that a Dominant should actually have to work to win a submissive, isn't it? You cannot grasp the concept that she can and will reject you if you do not meet her expectations.

Here is another concept you probably will dismiss as well. A submissive is not beneath you. She is your equal. The value of each of you is not lessened because of your roles. You are not superior to her in any way. Treat her with the value she deserves. Honor her as a woman and your partner and she will submit to you.

You have to prove to her that you deserve her.

What you are looking for is someone who will be a woman first and a submissive second. Therefore I suggest you be a man before a Dominant.





Very well said holly.


_____________________________

'My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fibre, and that I am therefore excused from saving Universes.'

Nah I am not happy to see you either

(in reply to masterofholly)
Profile   Post #: 161
RE: why does he want a submissive over a nilla woman - 1/12/2010 10:23:45 AM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
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reslon... you might try starting your own thread and not in the master section. Your question is misplaced in this thread.

We also like our submissive's smart... just a hint.

_____________________________

No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!


(in reply to reslon)
Profile   Post #: 162
RE: why does he want a submissive over a nilla woman - 1/12/2010 10:25:26 AM   
masterofholly


Posts: 197
Joined: 9/26/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Very well said holly.
My name is Jim. Holly is dying her hair at the moment, but I am not supposed to know that.

(in reply to LillyoftheVally)
Profile   Post #: 163
RE: why does he want a submissive over a nilla woman - 1/12/2010 10:27:09 AM   
persephonee


Posts: 5089
Joined: 12/15/2007
Status: offline
pink?

_____________________________

You be the Captain; i'll be no one.

And You can carry me away....if You want to. ~Kasey Chambers

E*Whore, extraordinaire....

Nothing is exactly as it seems~Nor, is it otherwise.

(in reply to masterofholly)
Profile   Post #: 164
RE: why does he want a submissive over a nilla woman - 1/12/2010 10:28:01 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

...Relationships take work. Calling yourself a Dominant does not exclude you or place you above it. It is a foreign concept to you that a Dominant should actually have to work to win a submissive, isn't it? You cannot grasp the concept that she can and will reject you if you do not meet her expectations...


not to speak for others or anything but only from this slave's perspective:  our relationship has never taken "work"...and he didn't have to "work to win" this submissive, either.  maybe osf has a strange way...but neither yours nor his is any kind of One True Way for all.

our relationship is fun, exciting, an adventure, an exceedingly good match, intimate, sexual, exhilirating...but never "work".

(in reply to masterofholly)
Profile   Post #: 165
RE: why does he want a submissive over a nilla woman - 1/12/2010 10:28:23 AM   
LillyoftheVally


Posts: 1826
Joined: 7/22/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: masterofholly

quote:

Very well said holly.
My name is Jim. Holly is dying her hair at the moment, but I am not supposed to know that.


Oops, sorry Jim

_____________________________

'My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fibre, and that I am therefore excused from saving Universes.'

Nah I am not happy to see you either

(in reply to masterofholly)
Profile   Post #: 166
RE: why does he want a submissive over a nilla woman - 1/12/2010 10:43:16 AM   
CallaFirestormBW


Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

knowing how high maintenance a submissive is, why would any man prefer one to the average woman?


I feel qualified to respond to this, since, despite not being a male, I have had the opportunity, over my career, to bring a number of submissive females (and males) into our household.

I'd like to start by asking you "what constitutes 'high maintenance'"? See, it's been my experience that our submissive members are not any higher-maintenance than our leadership members or our non-participating members. Unless there is some particular framework that is used to define "high maintenance", I think that the question is irrelevant to daily life.

As for myself, the reasons why I may choose a given submissive individual over a given vanilla individual is because I come to like hir as a -person-, and xhe fits well into our household. However, most often, if both fit us well, both would be more than welcome. To me, the whole process of authority exchange is symbiotic -- there is a need on both sides of the equation that is fulfilled through the interactions with one's counterpart on the other side of the equation. I'd hazard that it is pretty much the same for male Heads of Household. I don't think, for us, it has ever been an issue of choosing a submissive -over- a vanilla individual... it's just that authority-exchange-accepting individuals fit better into our household, and suit the balance of symbiosis that our household thrives best under.

As for the issue of "high maintenance", it is my experienced opinion that -every- relationship is "high maintenance". The more you invest in the relationship, the greater the return -- and, quite frankly, human beings can be very needy. Of course, they can also be very supportive, very loving, very warm and caring, and very generous -- at least, in the vast majority, the ones we've had the pleasure of sharing a household with have been. If a person doesn't want to invest in a relationship and doesn't like the person xhe's considering being with AS a person, then whether that person is submissive, dominant, or neutral makes absolutely no difference whatsoever. The relationship has no hope, because the investment in making the relationship work isn't there. For someone like that, xhe absolutely shouldn't be in a relationship -at all-, regardless of whether it is with a submissive person or a vanilla person.

On the other hand, if one finds a person or persons with whom xhe clicks, and genuinely wants to create a household with those people, and if that sentiment is mutual, the issue of "high maintenance" just isn't an issue at all -- because everyone involved will do what xhe needs to in order to nurture the relationship, and all parties will attend to one another in the manner best suited to one's nature, and it won't be a -burden-... it will be a gift.

Calla

< Message edited by CallaFirestormBW -- 1/12/2010 10:45:07 AM >


_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

(in reply to osf)
Profile   Post #: 167
RE: why does he want a submissive over a nilla woman - 1/12/2010 10:49:13 AM   
osf


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Joined: 10/19/2009
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requiring closer emotional support taking the time to really listen and understand, most anything in other relationships but you have to be more diligent in it

it's not a difference in kind as much as a greater degree of attentiveness, but mostly you gotta listen and accept what you hear non critically

i'm of the opinion you may demean her but never her thinking, or she will clam up

and never take what she says personaly

< Message edited by osf -- 1/12/2010 10:50:06 AM >


_____________________________

all around nice guy and creative misogynist

i'm not very skilled so i just hit harder

i want a woman to make into the woman she never wanted to become

(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)
Profile   Post #: 168
RE: why does he want a submissive over a nilla woman - 1/12/2010 10:52:30 AM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
That's some real rocket science there... relationship advice from osf... standing room only... get your tickets now!

(shakes head) Give it up dude... you buried yourself long ago.

_____________________________

No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!


(in reply to osf)
Profile   Post #: 169
RE: why does he want a submissive over a nilla woman - 1/12/2010 10:53:21 AM   
xxblushesxx


Posts: 9318
Joined: 11/3/2005
From: Kentucky
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CarrieO

quote:

ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance
Thank you for bringing that up.  Why is CillyDom 63, but Oaf is 55 now, but a few days ago he was 65?  Have we stumbled upon the fountain of youth?




Nice.



What's up with this?!!


*And then there was silence as the wizard of osf slipped further behind his curtain.*




_____________________________

~Christina

A nice girl with a disturbing hobby

My femdom findom blog: http://www.MistressAvarice.com


(in reply to CarrieO)
Profile   Post #: 170
RE: why does he want a submissive over a nilla woman - 1/12/2010 10:56:51 AM   
osf


Posts: 3288
Joined: 10/19/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx


quote:

ORIGINAL: CarrieO

quote:

ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance
Thank you for bringing that up.  Why is CillyDom 63, but Oaf is 55 now, but a few days ago he was 65?  Have we stumbled upon the fountain of youth?




Nice.



What's up with this?!!


*And then there was silence as the wizard of osf slipped further behind his curtain.*





it's just a mishap i'll change it back when its convenient

not hiding anything

_____________________________

all around nice guy and creative misogynist

i'm not very skilled so i just hit harder

i want a woman to make into the woman she never wanted to become

(in reply to xxblushesxx)
Profile   Post #: 171
RE: why does he want a submissive over a nilla woman - 1/12/2010 10:57:03 AM   
masterofholly


Posts: 197
Joined: 9/26/2007
Status: offline
quote:

not to speak for others or anything but only from this slave's perspective: our relationship has never taken "work"...and he didn't have to "work to win" this submissive, either.
He stood there like a pillar of salt and that was all it took? I have no idea what your relationship or roles are but I have serious doubts that is what you meant.

Relationships take work. They require give and take. They take learning about your partner. They do not happen with no effort whatsoever from either partner. Perhaps you do not agree with the term "work". Use whatever term you want. "Effort" may suit you better. He had to make the effort, give you his time and attention, to know you were right for him and make the effort to be with you and allow you to get to know him for you to make the same decision.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 172
RE: why does he want a submissive over a nilla woman - 1/12/2010 10:59:08 AM   
masterofholly


Posts: 197
Joined: 9/26/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: osf


quote:

ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx


quote:

ORIGINAL: CarrieO

quote:

ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance
Thank you for bringing that up.  Why is CillyDom 63, but Oaf is 55 now, but a few days ago he was 65?  Have we stumbled upon the fountain of youth?




Nice.



What's up with this?!!


*And then there was silence as the wizard of osf slipped further behind his curtain.*





it's just a mishap i'll change it back when its convenient

not hiding anything
Then what did you mess with it for in the first place?



(in reply to osf)
Profile   Post #: 173
RE: why does he want a submissive over a nilla woman - 1/12/2010 10:59:28 AM   
CallaFirestormBW


Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

requiring closer emotional support taking the time to really listen and understand, most anything in other relationships but you have to be more diligent in it

it's not a difference in kind as much as a greater degree of attentiveness, but mostly you gotta listen and accept what you hear non critically


It's been my experience, over the past 30 years or so, that the things that you're attributing to "high maintenance" are a function of -any- healthy relationship. Maximal attentiveness to the people with whom one is involved facilitates a relationship where one genuinely -knows- one's companions--and is known and cherished in equal measure.



quote:

i'm of the opinion you may demean her but never her thinking, or she will clam up


Personally, I find it ineffective to demean another person at all. I might rephrase your statement, for our household, to read "you may correct or discipline hir, but never denegrate hir for hir thoughts or feelings, or xhe may fail to share those vital pieces of information with you in the future."

quote:

and never take what she says personaly


I have to ask why you would never take what a companion, of any ilk, says to you "personally"... those are the things I take -most- personally, because those are the people with whom I have a relationship, and if they are telling me something, they are telling it from the perspective of someone who KNOWS me, intimately, and who is vested  in my progress as a person, just as I am in hirs. If I cannot and will not take what my closest companions say personally, whose input -will- I accept at that level... and what will that mean for my progress as an individual?

Calla





< Message edited by CallaFirestormBW -- 1/12/2010 11:01:15 AM >


_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

(in reply to osf)
Profile   Post #: 174
RE: why does he want a submissive over a nilla woman - 1/12/2010 11:04:08 AM   
osf


Posts: 3288
Joined: 10/19/2009
Status: offline
quote:

I have to ask why you would never take what a companion, of any ilk, says to you "personally"... those are the things I take -most- personally, because those are the people with whom I have a relationship, and if they are telling me something, they are telling it from the perspective of someone who KNOWS me, intimately, and who is vested  in my progress as a person, just as I am in hirs. If I cannot and will not take what my closest companions say personally, whose input -will- I accept at that level... and what will that mean for my progress as an individual?


i mean take what she says personally to the point your not able to deal with it objectively

and she may not even like your ass all the time for what she may be required to do for you

you have to deal with that aftermath too

_____________________________

all around nice guy and creative misogynist

i'm not very skilled so i just hit harder

i want a woman to make into the woman she never wanted to become

(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)
Profile   Post #: 175
RE: why does he want a submissive over a nilla woman - 1/12/2010 11:05:00 AM   
masterofholly


Posts: 197
Joined: 9/26/2007
Status: offline
quote:

and never take what she says personaly
Right. They have nothing of value to say.



(in reply to osf)
Profile   Post #: 176
RE: why does he want a submissive over a nilla woman - 1/12/2010 11:05:31 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: masterofholly
Then what did you mess with it for in the first place?




You really don't think your going to get any type of an honest answer do you? Reading an honest answer from this person appears to be like looking for a specific needle in a hay stack of needles. Good luck in indentifying the truth from the fabrications.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to masterofholly)
Profile   Post #: 177
RE: why does he want a submissive over a nilla woman - 1/12/2010 11:06:59 AM   
xxblushesxx


Posts: 9318
Joined: 11/3/2005
From: Kentucky
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists


quote:

ORIGINAL: masterofholly
Then what did you mess with it for in the first place?




You really don't think your going to get any type of an honest answer do you? Reading an honest answer from this person appears to be like looking for a specific needle in a hay stack of needles. Good luck in indentifying the truth from the fabrications.


But it's kinda fun pointing it out!
(over and over...) *eg*

_____________________________

~Christina

A nice girl with a disturbing hobby

My femdom findom blog: http://www.MistressAvarice.com


(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 178
RE: why does he want a submissive over a nilla woman - 1/12/2010 11:08:25 AM   
osf


Posts: 3288
Joined: 10/19/2009
Status: offline
i don't fucking believe this, lolololol

_____________________________

all around nice guy and creative misogynist

i'm not very skilled so i just hit harder

i want a woman to make into the woman she never wanted to become

(in reply to xxblushesxx)
Profile   Post #: 179
RE: why does he want a submissive over a nilla woman - 1/12/2010 11:09:26 AM   
WinsomeDefiance


Posts: 6719
Joined: 8/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

thank you all
Happy to help you out some more.

Personally I prefer this character development persona versus a one which included a 20 year relationship with a dead pain-slut masochistic wife and sick son requiring 24/7 care. I see a more positive reaction. The desperate need for sympathy giving way to disconnected expertise falling apart in face of fact-check; should attract a different group of affected individuals. Although in the next reincarnation I'm hoping for a change in venue from remote Canadian farmland to some seaside resort.

Maybe you already have that in mind. Is that why you borrowed the AFLAC duck?

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 180
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