RE: Forced Masculinity, Take 2

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RE: Forced Masculinity, Take 2 - 1/15/2010 7:39:02 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Psychonaut23

I can't even begin to imagine how forced masculinity would work. And if it did work...wouldn't the subject no longer be a submissive? I just can't reconcile the idea of masculinity with male submission. And I kind of want to ask Lady Angelika why she doesn't just date non-submissive men. Or Doms. Since that seems to be what you're trying to turn these male subs into.

I do hope you're writing such things simply to squirt lemon juice in the eye and jerk the thread. You could not seriously think such a position is intellectually tenable. If by chance you do, please, enlighten us further as to why masculinity and submission are incongruent. I know I'll be waiting to read your thoughts on the matter.

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(in reply to Psychonaut23)

RE: Forced Masculinity, Take 2 - 1/15/2010 7:55:09 PM

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What I've always found odd is that I have often mentioned that I have zero desire whatsoever to be feminized, nor to do activities that have anything that has to do with that. I've stated over and over that I consider myself a man, and I'm quite proud of that, but I also have no problem being a submissive. What's odd about that is that almost every time I respond in one of those feminize threads (usually to someone asking why "all" men want to be feminized), I'm almost ALWAYS ignored and the conversation goes onto talk about those who are interested in feminization. I think the reason you are having such a hard time finding people who are the opposite of this is that they generally just get ignored, so they stop bringing it up in conversation. I gave up a long time ago. I get drowned out almost every time I try to join the conversation.

In other areas, I've often found dominants who want to feminize me, but it's not my thing, so they then question my submissive nature. So again, it comes back to a whole point of reinforcement that I don't think women realize they're actually producing. I've been dumped by women who were convinced a submissive male has to undergo feminization as some kind of submissive responsibility. When you have to expend a great deal of energy explaining that you worship women, but you don't want to personally be one, well, it gets old sometimes.

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RE: Forced Masculinity, Take 2 - 1/15/2010 8:04:31 PM

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Littlesarbonn, I am sorry that you feel you have been ignored and have had those experiences. I have no answers and don't understand what has happened really. If I were you... I would make sure that the dominant's you are in contact with, have no interest in transforming you in that way!

I hope all is well with your new job and city!

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RE: Forced Masculinity, Take 2 - 1/15/2010 8:13:23 PM

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The new job and city are great. Thank you. Just have no life here other than vanilla, so I think I'll become a farmer, find a nice girl, settle down and go to church every Sunday. Okay, maybe not, but it's still kind of boring....

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RE: Forced Masculinity, Take 2 - 1/16/2010 3:29:01 AM

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What a completely wasted post, Psychonaut. You made some intelligent points, but then finished with a line that only serves to draw all the reader's attention away from anything preceding it.

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RE: Forced Masculinity, Take 2 - 1/16/2010 4:12:53 AM

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I will give you submission, God, Corps and Country, in that order, a Marines commitment to servitude. I will place myself at the disposal of a woman, I will also leap at the opportunity to face challenges against overwhelming odds, in business or life in general but in support of your position I agree, no woman can teach me to be what I already am.

(in reply to Psychonaut23)

RE: Forced Masculinity, Take 2 - 1/16/2010 4:51:31 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Psychonaut23
No, I seriously don't get the whole concept.

quote:

If I were to write a list of masculine traits, submissiveness wouldn't appear on it at all, and a lot of things that are pretty directly contradictory to submission -- like independence, self-reliance, leadership, etc. -- would. I mean...can anyone even name a single masculine archetype that's submissive? I can't, and I'm pretty well-versed in archetypes. Submission is like...the least masculine thing that ever was.

Leaving aside the abusive comment at the end of your post:

I can't claim to be an expert in male subs in general, because I'm mainly gay and therefore mostly interact with women, but I spent some time with a particular male sub about six months ago who I think is relevant to this discussion.

He was a six-foot-something-ridiculous rugby player who didn't walk through a door before me for the whole time I knew him. He may not have been a perfect gentleman (sometimes he would have trouble backing down from fights with other blokes) but you couldn't accuse him of not being masculine.

When he got down on his knees for me it was because I wanted him to and because he wanted to. He was graceful and sure of himself and his position with regards to me, and I don't think there is anything more masculine than having the confidence to submit to someone with the knowledge that it doesn't make you any less of a man.

The phrase 'just my two cents' sits a bit oddly with me, because I'm English, but that's what this is...

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(in reply to Psychonaut23)

RE: Forced Masculinity, Take 2 - 1/16/2010 6:14:42 AM

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Real-life experience counts for more than a google search.

Or perhaps all dominant women are butch, because no domme is feminine? After all, "feminine" must equal "pliant" if "masculine" equals "in charge."

Edited to add: My two p. Ha!

< Message edited by RedMagic1 -- 1/16/2010 6:22:10 AM >

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RE: Forced Masculinity, Take 2 - 1/16/2010 6:20:18 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Santoro

I will give you submission, God, Corps and Country, in that order, a Marines commitment to servitude. I will place myself at the disposal of a woman, I will also leap at the opportunity to face challenges against overwhelming odds, in business or life in general but in support of your position I agree, no woman can teach me to be what I already am.

I'm pretty sure it's God, Country, Corps, but I agree. And you can't get much more masculine than marines.

I think what most miss is that confident submission from a man is not a sign of weakness, but strength. If a man submits to his lady not because he HAS to, but because he WANTS to it indicates that he is confident enough in himself that he doesn't mind being in a status "below" her.

One thing that was demanded from me as a submissive was strength. I was expected to have the strength to do what was right, to have an opinion (though I might not get to follow it), to have very clean habits and to be very polite to anyone I came across. All of those are masculine things, and all were pushed and enforced by her. Because of it I feel more like a man now, not less, and definitely not a fake.

As for pussy-whipped into being a man, psychonaut: I might do all the dishes, clean the dog kennels, run her bath and do the laundry, but I'm better respected at work because of the way I act now as well as by her. I also bet I'm a lot happier with my relation AND I enjoy more sex.

(in reply to Santoro)

RE: Forced Masculinity, Take 2 - 1/16/2010 7:13:24 AM

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No offense, but that list on masculine and feminine traits looks like something that came out of the 1960's. Did anybody else catch the part on the masculine list of 'doesn't cry'? Damn, isn't that healthy! Sounds more to Me like the old bury emotions rhetoric that has only served to help folks not be able to process their emotions and make things such as grief or anger so prevalent in some people's lives.

By the way, the insult flinging is completely immature.

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RE: Forced Masculinity, Take 2 - 1/16/2010 7:24:16 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Psychonaut23

@Lockit: Go fuck yourself with a rabid wolverine. What a useless twat you are.

Well... good morning to you too. I see the mouth farts are continuing. That I must say dear sir was the most domly example of what a gentleman is and of couse I am sure a good lesson for these weak, spineless men who claim to be submissive according to you.

You see everyone... this is what the submissive men are supposed to act like according to this domly one and of course what all us dominant women should be going for rather than those weak men.

I will take the strength of a good submissive man any day over a man who must try to win at the expense of his honor. Yes... I did say you were talking out your ass... twice... but I sure wouldn't tell you to go fuck an animal... I wouldn't be so cruel to the animal.

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RE: Forced Masculinity, Take 2 - 1/16/2010 7:30:20 AM

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Lockit, I think that the freak is seriously so mentally disturbed that he says the most offensive, and rediculously stupid, things possible, just to get a rise out of people. Then he can sit in his little 'parlour' and laugh and wank off to the abuse he gets.

The only thing that really concerns me, is what the people that live near him physically have to put up with.

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Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: Forced Masculinity, Take 2 - 1/16/2010 7:39:41 AM

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Yes... I think those he really gets offensive with are actually the one's he would most like to humiliate him or jack off to... but that is just my opinion. I am a twat... so I guess my opinion doesn't mean much... but what the hell... that wovlerine sure the fuck loves me! hehe

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RE: Forced Masculinity, Take 2 - 1/16/2010 7:42:11 AM

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Lockit, I am afraid I am going to need photographic evidence that you are a twat.

P.S. Don't tell June

Ward

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(in reply to Lockit)

RE: Forced Masculinity, Take 2 - 1/16/2010 7:52:20 AM

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My mind is going is strange places this morning - Adapted from Monty Pithon and the Holy Grail:

ARTHUR: What happens now?
BEDEMIR: Well, now, uh, Launcelot, Galahad, and I wait until nightfall,
and then leap out of the rabid wolverine, taking Lockit completely by surprise --
not only by surprise, but totally unarmed!
ARTHUR: Who leaps out?
BEDEMIR: Uh, Launcelot, Galahad, and I. Uh, leap out of the wolverine, uh
and uh....
ARTHUR: Oh....
BEDEMIR: Oh.... Um, l-look, if we built this large rabid badger--
[twong]

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RE: Forced Masculinity, Take 2 - 1/16/2010 8:00:00 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

Lockit, I am afraid I am going to need photographic evidence that you are a twat.

P.S. Don't tell June

Ward

I guess you were expecting a gash picture... but seeing as though I am so very modest, I couldn't provide that. I did, however look for a happy wolverine picture! That isn't easy to find! I guess you will just have to ask the 5150 for proof.

And as for not telling June... she knows all dude... you can't get away with anything around that woman!

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No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!

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RE: Forced Masculinity, Take 2 - 1/16/2010 8:02:09 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OttersSwim

My mind is going is strange places this morning - Adapted from Monty Pithon and the Holy Grail:

ARTHUR: What happens now?
BEDEMIR: Well, now, uh, Launcelot, Galahad, and I wait until nightfall,
and then leap out of the rabid wolverine, taking Lockit completely by surprise --
not only by surprise, but totally unarmed!
ARTHUR: Who leaps out?
BEDEMIR: Uh, Launcelot, Galahad, and I. Uh, leap out of the wolverine, uh
and uh....
ARTHUR: Oh....
BEDEMIR: Oh.... Um, l-look, if we built this large rabid badger--
[twong]

Oh my... I am having an exciting morning aren't I? All I want to know is the end of the story. Did I like it?

_____________________________

No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!

(in reply to OttersSwim)

RE: Forced Masculinity, Take 2 - 1/16/2010 8:09:27 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

quote:

ORIGINAL: OttersSwim

My mind is going is strange places this morning - Adapted from Monty Pithon and the Holy Grail:

ARTHUR: What happens now?
BEDEMIR: Well, now, uh, Launcelot, Galahad, and I wait until nightfall,
and then leap out of the rabid wolverine, taking Lockit completely by surprise --
not only by surprise, but totally unarmed!
ARTHUR: Who leaps out?
BEDEMIR: Uh, Launcelot, Galahad, and I. Uh, leap out of the wolverine, uh
and uh....
ARTHUR: Oh....
BEDEMIR: Oh.... Um, l-look, if we built this large rabid badger--
[twong]

Oh my... I am having an exciting morning aren't I? All I want to know is the end of the story. Did I like it?

Well, they're very manly men...

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I am on a journey of authenticity and self.

(in reply to Lockit)

RE: Forced Masculinity, Take 2 - 1/16/2010 8:10:46 AM

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ROFL!

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No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!

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RE: Forced Masculinity, Take 2 - 1/16/2010 8:43:44 AM

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FR

I enjoyed the intended humor of the title of this thread. But it also takes me in the humorous direction of imagining forcing a man to fart in bed, leave the toilet seat up and refuse to read the directions. I think the points about domestication (and comparison to horses) are good. There is something very attractive about raw masculinity restrained and refined for higher order purposes. It's not that difficult to imagine at all. Someone already mentioned the Marines. Is the fact that it's normally a penis not a pussy that whips them into hyper-masculine shape for deployment as submissives that makes that work? I don't think so. Seriously, the degree of autonomy a Marine recruit willingly surrenders upon induction is up there with the most extreme TPE 24/7 scenarios discussed around here. I can see how calling it "forced masculinity," (admittedly humorously) or confusing "masculinity" with what is termed "dominance" in a bdsm sense, can muddle the conversation, but is it really that hard to visualize the underlying dynamic at work?

(in reply to Lockit)

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