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RE: Forced Bi? - 1/31/2010 2:57:56 PM

GiveandGive

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally

People can know what you mean but not like the way you phrase it thats just how things are. It isnt a small niche at all its huge, but a lot of people who do not indulge in it or even those who do don't like the term forced bi.

Think of it this way, bisexual people often come against a lot of criticism from both the gay and straight communities, not making their mind up etc etc, the fact that you call it forced bi rather than forced gay could be construed as implying bisexuality isn't a real thing its a switch turned on and off. Though that isn't necessarily how I feel I know it is how a fair few people do surely you can understand it?

Edit to add, I am really not trying to derail your topic any further, I do think you should read some of the old threads on the topic for more detail into the actual activity itself

Well, anyone who is that uptight that they'd actually argue about being PC isn't someone who I'm interested in being around in the first place, so I guess it works out, lol.

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RE: Forced Bi? - 1/31/2010 3:46:12 PM

Andalusite

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I don't have any problem with the "forced bi" terminology, and I understand that it's no more forced than fantasy rape or other forms of resistance play. I *DO* object to the specific way that most guys want to implement it though - getting called cocksucker or other such things. Doing that in front of a guy who *is* gay or bisexual seems really insensitive, like calling a white guy the "n" word in front of a black guy. Personally, when I was looking, I would have been open to MFM poly, but not casual sex between my partner and anyone else. I've had a couple of previous boyfriends or guys I was dating come dancing with me and my gay friends in the Castro, and that was fun, but a bit of grinding or maybe some light making out or BDSM play would be as far as I was interested in going with someone who wasn't *our* boyfriend.

My Master isn't at all interested in that form of play or sexuality, so it's a moot point. Back when I was looking, I thought it was weird that so many guys were fine with having some other guy's dick in their mouth or up their ass, but not a little kiss or nipple pinching or some such.

< Message edited by Andalusite -- 1/31/2010 3:49:17 PM >

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RE: Forced Bi? - 1/31/2010 3:52:22 PM

LadyAngelika

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quote:

I *DO* object to the specific way that most guys want to implement it though - getting called cocksucker or other such things.

Why would you object to someone else's kink? I could understand if you wrote "it would make me unseasy if". My vanilla gay friends called each other cocksucker all the time.

Everything is ok when everyone involved is ok with it. I love the idea of humiling a man by calling him a cocksucking whore.

- LA

< Message edited by LadyAngelika -- 1/31/2010 3:53:37 PM >

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RE: Forced Bi? - 1/31/2010 4:01:22 PM

LadyPact

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GiveandGive

I felt like I was going to gag when I read the line about the aftertaste :(

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "joining a couple independently", sorry!

The aftertaste is the reason I was suggesting glass. Much easier to, swallow, shall we say. LOL.

When I mentioned joining a couple independently, I was thinking you may want to join an already established couple, rather than find a single male to join your girlfriend and yourself. I believe earlier in the thread that you mentioned that you and she do play with other people, so I was going on that.

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RE: Forced Bi? - 1/31/2010 4:05:57 PM

LadyPact

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andalusite

I don't have any problem with the "forced bi" terminology, and I understand that it's no more forced than fantasy rape or other forms of resistance play. I *DO* object to the specific way that most guys want to implement it though - getting called cocksucker or other such things. Doing that in front of a guy who *is* gay or bisexual seems really insensitive, like calling a white guy the "n" word in front of a black guy. Personally, when I was looking, I would have been open to MFM poly, but not casual sex between my partner and anyone else. I've had a couple of previous boyfriends or guys I was dating come dancing with me and my gay friends in the Castro, and that was fun, but a bit of grinding or maybe some light making out or BDSM play would be as far as I was interested in going with someone who wasn't *our* boyfriend.

My Master isn't at all interested in that form of play or sexuality, so it's a moot point. Back when I was looking, I thought it was weird that so many guys were fine with having some other guy's dick in their mouth or up their ass, but not a little kiss or nipple pinching or some such.

I think you may have an incorrect conception about this. Sure, if I'm doing a scene where the 'forced' element or humiliation is being implemented, I'm going to use terms such as cocksucker, cock slut, etc, but I'm not using the same terms in the general public. If I am playing publicly, I do have a sense of decorum.

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RE: Forced Bi? - 1/31/2010 4:09:03 PM

Andalusite

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

I *DO* object to the specific way that most guys want to implement it though - getting called cocksucker or other such things.

Why would you object to someone else's kink? I could understand if you wrote "it would make me unseasy if". My vanilla gay friends called each other cocksucker all the time.

I objected to the way they were asking *ME* to implement it, but it does bother me in abstract as well. Some black folks use the "n" word with each other, it doesn't have the same emotional baggage as a white person using it. Same goes for a gay guy using "cocksucker" or "fag" with another gay guy - not a big deal, but if a straight person calls a gay guy that, IMHO, that isn't cool. Using those derogatory words in front of a gay guy or bi guy isn't quite the same thing as calling *him* one, but it's too close for me to feel it's a reasonable thing to do. Race play, Nazi play, gaybashing play all feel unethical to me, even if I'm not involved in it. It would disturb me to witness it, but I would leave rather than making a big deal over it. I recognise that just because *I* have an issue with it doesn't mean that other people necessarily shouldn't participate in it. When they wrote an e-mail directly to *me* requesting it, I got really creeped out by it.

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RE: Forced Bi? - 1/31/2010 4:12:58 PM

Andalusite

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
I think you may have an incorrect conception about this. Sure, if I'm doing a scene where the 'forced' element or humiliation is being implemented, I'm going to use terms such as cocksucker, cock slut, etc, but I'm not using the same terms in the general public. If I am playing publicly, I do have a sense of decorum.

I'm not talking about public play, I mean using those words in front of the gay or bi guy whose cock is *being* sucked or whatever! I've talked about this with a few of my gay friends. Some of them have said that kind of talk would bother them a lot, others wouldn't really care as long as the guy was hot enough. Either way, I find the idea disturbing. If I were single and the guy wanted a playrape MFM scene (with appropriate safewords and other safety precautions), and wanted some playfighting and wrestling and other physical resistance, or to verbally beg for it to stop or whatever, that might have been negotiable. Calling him gaybashing things in front of a guy who may very well have heard then in earnest just seems wrong to me.

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RE: Forced Bi? - 1/31/2010 4:14:22 PM

LadyAngelika

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quote:

I objected to the way they were asking *ME* to implement it,

That's fair, but that's not what you wrote originally, so I was going with what I read :-)

Just realise that not everyone calling someone a cocksucker is homophobic.

- LA

< Message edited by LadyAngelika -- 1/31/2010 4:16:32 PM >

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RE: Forced Bi? - 1/31/2010 4:56:01 PM

LadyPact

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andalusite

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
I think you may have an incorrect conception about this. Sure, if I'm doing a scene where the 'forced' element or humiliation is being implemented, I'm going to use terms such as cocksucker, cock slut, etc, but I'm not using the same terms in the general public. If I am playing publicly, I do have a sense of decorum.

I'm not talking about public play, I mean using those words in front of the gay or bi guy whose cock is *being* sucked or whatever! I've talked about this with a few of my gay friends. Some of them have said that kind of talk would bother them a lot, others wouldn't really care as long as the guy was hot enough. Either way, I find the idea disturbing. If I were single and the guy wanted a playrape MFM scene (with appropriate safewords and other safety precautions), and wanted some playfighting and wrestling and other physical resistance, or to verbally beg for it to stop or whatever, that might have been negotiable. Calling him gaybashing things in front of a guy who may very well have heard then in earnest just seems wrong to me.

That makes sense to Me. I try to go over a lot of territory with both males prior to setting these things up. Since this is one of those areas that I can go all over the board with (everything from hard core humiliation to directing the show because it turns Me on) I ask a lot of prerequisite questions.

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RE: Forced Bi? - 1/31/2010 5:02:22 PM

Andalusite

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LP, that sounds like a good approach.

LA, I don't think that using those words makes someone homophobic automatically, I just think it's rude and insensitive to use them in front of someone who has been called that unconsentually before. Also, I'd worry that even if he thought he would be ok with hearing them (directed to the other man) beforehand, that he might have a melt-down during the scene, or feel badly afterward. When someone has had bad experiences, they don't always know ahead of time how something that touches on it will affect them.

< Message edited by Andalusite -- 1/31/2010 5:03:01 PM >

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RE: Forced Bi? - 1/31/2010 5:08:12 PM

LadyAngelika

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andalusite
LA, I don't think that using those words makes someone homophobic automatically, I just think it's rude and insensitive to use them in front of someone who has been called that unconsentually before.

I'll reiterate what I wrote 8 posts earlier: Everything is ok when everyone involved is ok with it.

quote:

Also, I'd worry that even if he thought he would be ok with hearing them (directed to the other man) beforehand, that he might have a melt-down during the scene, or feel badly afterward. When someone has had bad experiences, they don't always know ahead of time how something that touches on it will affect them.

Well I presume that I'm playing with adults who have figured out their limits enough to give me a clear answer on whether or not they are into something or not. Now meltdowns might happen, I have yet to have had one happen under my watch and if they did, I would deal with it. That said, I always proceed with caution when I meet someone new.

That said, I take a green light as exactly that, a green light. I just don't hit the gas from 0 to 100 in under 5 seconds and squeal my tires, hence looking like an idiot.

- LA

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RE: Forced Bi? - 1/31/2010 5:30:14 PM

Andalusite

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Some people get squicked by age play. I get squicked by those particular words especially in that particular situation (being said in front of someone who is actually gay or bi). I'm not trying to keep anyone else from using them when they aren't involved with me, but it does upset me and disturb me a bit. So do race play and Nazi play, even when everyone involved is consenting. I'm glad you haven't had any bad experiences with it so far, and I hope that it continues to go well for you in the future. It doesn't bother me nearly as much when I hear about other people doing it as when they specifically try to include me in it, and I certainly am not intending to censor your or LP's or anyone's scenes and make you stop saying that word.

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RE: Forced Bi? - 1/31/2010 5:40:12 PM

LadyAngelika

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I would hate it if someone tried to include me into their kink as well. But I think considerate people are cognizant of their environement and control it to the best of their abilities.

See I'm not fond of public play at all. I've done it twice, and it was with a half dozen people each time, once was friends of the sub, once mutual friends of the sub and I. That dates back to over 4 years ago and one of the reasons I don't like it is because it isn't intimate enough for me and because I feel I can't control the environment. Obviously, I'm sure LadyPact has found ways around this as she seems to thrive in these environements. I figure if she's having fun, that is all that counts.

For me, I don't associate cocksucker with being gay. Hell I suck cock, so by definition, I could be a cocksucker (and no, I don't conscent to anyone calling me that because that's not my kink). I know many men who in their kink call their female subs cocksucking whores and from what I've witnessed, this gets many women wet. When I've called guys cocksuckers, whether it be when they were sucking a dildo, a strap-on or another man, I saw the excitement grow in their eyes.

As for not being able to appreciate Nazi play or race play, I can understand that. It must push buttons for many. But it is a legitimate form of play for some people and as much as I wouldn't want someone to tell me that my kink was not ok, I wouldn't feel right telling someone else that their consensual kink was ok.

- LA

< Message edited by LadyAngelika -- 1/31/2010 6:01:56 PM >

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RE: Forced Bi? - 1/31/2010 6:02:03 PM

Andalusite

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People say that some kinks are "not ok" all the time (mostly about safety issues). Breathplay/choking gets a lot of that here.

I don't want to change how other people play, and I don't think they're horrible homophobes who plan to go out and beat up the next gay or bisexual man they see. I was originally only intended to post about how I felt when men specifically asked me to be the Domme in that scenario. When you asked directly if it were only that, or in general, I wasn't going to lie about it though. "Cocksucker/cocksucking" when directed at a woman doesn't bother me as much, and doesn't have the same emotional context. When it's used during male-male activity, especially if a gay or bisexual man is one of the participants, then I personally get a bit upset by it . It's about context - I don't mind the music genre "doo-wop," but calling an Italian person a "Wop" would bug me. Does that make more sense?

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RE: Forced Bi? - 1/31/2010 6:09:16 PM

LadyAngelika

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andalusite
I was originally only intended to post about how I felt when men specifically asked me to be the Domme in that scenario.

While I understand this, that isn't what happened, which is why we got on this topic :)

quote:

calling an Italian person a "Wop" would bug me

I live in one of the most multicultural neighbourhoods in all of North America. My Italian friends call each other Wops all the time. The Greeks & Portuguese here too. I would not however go to someone I didn't know and call them a Wop. I actually don't like the word, but it simply means "With Out Papers" or illegal immigrant. They are all legal now. I think it doesn't have as much clout as it once did.

Really, it is all about context and about people.

I have once really close friend with whom we call each other cunt or bitch for fun, but never in front of anyone else. I don't do that with any other friend because I know the other ones wouldn't feel at ease with this. That and I keep my trash talk for private ;-)

- LA

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RE: Forced Bi? - 1/31/2010 6:35:21 PM

Rochsub2009

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GiveandGive

Female dominant forced bisexuality, It's something that I've been interested in for a long time. By this, I mean a women forcing you to go down on another guy, or forcing you to fuck him for her pleasure. Every time I've seen this mentioned, it's always in conjunction with cuckolding, which is not something that I'm into.

I'm just wondering if anyone has any experience with it. If so, mind sharing some tips on where to find people who are interested in it?

Every guy that I've talked to about it just wants to fuck my girlfriend, and would only be interested if he would get to bang her. =/

GiveandGive,
Sorry that i'm late joining this discussion, but i think i might have a few thoughts for you.

Firstly, i COMPLETELY understand the "forced bi" fantasy. It is a very hot scene, and having that particular fantasy is very common among sub males. i'm sure most of the Dommes here can attest that they get that request a lot from sub males. So you are not alone.

Viewing "forced bi" as a very different thing as cuckolding is also right. Judging by the other things that you've written, you don't want to see another man with your girlfriend. i get that. But that pretty much eliminates cuckolding from your list of fantasies.

i'm definitely not trying to persuade you to try cuckolding, but i can say from personal experience that it can also make for a very hot scene. i used to be very possessive of my girlfriends, and would have NEVER considered cuckolding. But i eventually tried it, and it can be very exciting. But i digress.

You are not going to be able to approach any of your straight male friends (or straight guys period) to help you fulfill this fantasy. In general, when straight guys think about threesomes, it is always in the context of either one guy with two girls, or two guys doing one girl. Two guys having sexual interaction with one another within the context of a threesome is anathema to most straight guys. But if you search among the gay or bi community, it shouldn't be that hard to find a willing partner. i'm not sure why you are meeting objections from gay and bi guys who don't want to be naked in front of a woman. i've never heard of that before.

Frankly, if you don't mind your girlfriend being excluded from the fantasy, i'd suggest that you try getting a pro Domme to help you fulfill this fantasy. She will probably be able to find the guy for you, and i can assure you that there will be a lot less weirdness later if your first experience is with a guy that you DON'T know. Should you decide that you don't like the fantasy, you don't want any on-going awkwardness between you and one of your buddies.

While you are waiting to find an appropriate partner, have you and your girlfriend tried strap-on play? Having her force you to suck her strap-on can be a very hot scene too. If she decides to take you from behind with her strap-on, even better.

Finally, i completely understand your point about why the idea of sucking off a tranny is a hotter and very different fantasy from sucking off a regular guy. i agree completely.

Some will (and have) argue that if you want it, it's not really "forced". Others will get caught up in proper nomenclature for your orientation. Ignore that crap. Who cares about labels?

There are many "forced" fantasies that are very real, and very HOT. For example, i don't consider myself to be a crossdresser, but back when i was an executive in corporate America, i had a Domme who used to force me to wear panties underneath my business suit. When she knew that i had particularly important presentations to top level management, she would make sure that i was wearing my panties. Outside of that context, i have never had any desire to wear panties. It just doesn't do anything for me. But being forced to do so in that context was great. i enjoyed it tremendously. But for me, it was the element of being forced that made it so exciting.

Oh yeah, one final comment on your forced cock sucking fantasy. When you finally do it, you may want your girlfriend (or whoever it is who finds the second male) to have him wear a hood and never reveal to you who he was. That way, after the deed is done, anytime the two of you are out with your friends and there is a male in the group who is about the same height, there will always be the nagging question in the back of your mind; "is that him?"

Sorry for the long reply, but i hope that something that i've written was helpful. Good luck in your quest. i think you're going to like it.

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RE: Forced Bi? - 1/31/2010 6:40:12 PM

GiveandGive

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andalusite

Some people get squicked by age play. I get squicked by those particular words especially in that particular situation (being said in front of someone who is actually gay or bi). I'm not trying to keep anyone else from using them when they aren't involved with me, but it does upset me and disturb me a bit. So do race play and Nazi play, even when everyone involved is consenting. I'm glad you haven't had any bad experiences with it so far, and I hope that it continues to go well for you in the future. It doesn't bother me nearly as much when I hear about other people doing it as when they specifically try to include me in it, and I certainly am not intending to censor your or LP's or anyone's scenes and make you stop saying that word.

Age play seems a bit creepy to me, but that's just in theory. I've never seen anyone do anything, but to the very unexperienced me, age play seems like a legal pedophilia. Although, people who are into that may not see why my fantasies are appealing either, so it really doesn't matter.

I'm not really sure where I stand on verbal abuse during sex. I don't know how I would feel about being called a "cocksucker", haha. One of my best friends from high school is gay, and he honestly doesn't care if someone is using the words "fag", "homo", "gay", or "queer". He calls our group of friends "fags" all the time, and we're all fine with it. I dunno, maybe it's just because we've all known each other for 7 or so years.

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RE: Forced Bi? - 1/31/2010 6:42:15 PM

LadyAngelika

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quote:

age play seems like a legal pedophilia

An aside: It isn't. But I could see how someone would have that impression. Just know that for those who are into it, they really make clear distinctions.

- LA

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RE: Forced Bi? - 1/31/2010 6:44:19 PM

GiveandGive

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andalusite

People say that some kinks are "not ok" all the time (mostly about safety issues). Breathplay/choking gets a lot of that here. I don't want to change how other people play, and I don't think they're horrible homophobes who plan to go out and beat up the next gay or bisexual man they see. I was originally only intended to post about how I felt when men specifically asked me to be the Domme in that scenario. When you asked directly if it were only that, or in general, I wasn't going to lie about it though. "Cocksucker/cocksucking" when directed at a woman doesn't bother me as much, and doesn't have the same emotional context. When it's used during male-male activity, especially if a gay or bisexual man is one of the participants, then I personally get a bit upset by it . It's about context - I don't mind the music genre "doo-wop," but calling an Italian person a "Wop" would bug me. Does that make more sense?

I really don't see how it's insulting to say "cocksucker" near a gay guy. I mean, that's one of the things that he does, right? It just seems childish. Sort of like when you hear gay guys trying to bash straight people by calling them "breeders". The term just seems... I don't know, pathetic?

To me, anyone that lets it get to them is actually trying to get offended. But again, that's just me. I don't get offended by anything.

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RE: Forced Bi? - 1/31/2010 6:53:47 PM

GiveandGive

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rochsub2009

You are not going to be able to approach any of your straight male friends (or straight guys period) to help you fulfill this fantasy. Frankly, if you don't mind your girlfriend being excluded from the fantasy, i'd suggest that you try getting a pro Domme to help you fulfill this fantasy. She will probably be able to find the guy for you, and i can assure you that there will be a lot less weirdness later if your first experience is with a guy that you DON'T know. Should you decide that you don't like the fantasy, you don't want any on-going awkwardness between you and one of your buddies.

I was not planning on approtching any of my friends with the idea, since I don't even want them knowing about my fetishes in the first place. Aside from that, I don't find any of my friends in this area to be attractive, which would be a real downer. My girlfriend wouldn't want me going out and doing anything without her, which I can completely understand. I wouldn't want her doing that either, and to me, that would be a relationship ender.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rochsub2009

While you are waiting to find an appropriate partner, have you and your girlfriend tried strap-on play? Having her force you to suck her strap-on can be a very hot scene too. If she decides to take you from behind with her strap-on, even better.

I think I'm going to approach her tonight about us buying one, since I'm really into it. The only problem is that neither of us is really dominant, and it usually ends up being me who has to take control, despite the fact that it's a bit of a turn off for me to do so.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rochsub2009

Oh yeah, one final comment on your forced cock sucking fantasy. When you finally do it, you may want your girlfriend (or whoever it is who finds the second male) to have him wear a hood and never reveal to you who he was. That way, after the deed is done, anytime the two of you are out with your friends and there is a male in the group who is about the same height, there will always be the nagging question in the back of your mind; "is that him?"

Despite the fact that I am not interested in any of our friends, reading that idea got me really turned on. Maybe if it was a group of friends that I just met with a new girlfriend, then I'd be totally for it. But right now, I'd be able to tell by all of their bodies, and their body language. I pay attention to the way people stand, walk, all of their mannerisms, so it wouldn't be an option. It's a great suggestion though, and I LOVE the idea!

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