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Are switches looked down upon? - 3/14/2010 12:14:05 PM

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In the BDSM community, why do I get the feeling that switches are looked down upon? Is it because switches are thought to be indecisive? Are our desires thought to be too great a challenge to adhere to?

I identify as a switch because I can't, without lying, call myself solely a sub, or solely a dom. I love to serve, which leads me to pursue submissiveness, but the thought of taking a woman over the bed and overpowering her (with consent of course) is exhilarating. I can play either role in independently in a relationship or take turns. Is that inappropriate? Is it selfish? I just don't see why that's not thought to be kosher around here.

If we aren't and I'm just being naive, please excuse me. But I'm new around here and I've always found the best way to learn about something new is to ask someone more experienced.

RE: Are switches looked down upon? - 3/14/2010 3:00:22 PM

TheLadyandLimey

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I think to some we are looked down as indecisive i for one can't choose, i like both roles as does my partner and i am happy with that.

(in reply to GoFigure)

RE: Are switches looked down upon? - 3/14/2010 6:05:49 PM

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This little thread might help answer that:

http://www.collarchat.com/m_2681736/tm.htm

Short answer, yes some people do look down on switches. No, not everyone does.

lovingpet

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RE: Are switches looked down upon? - 3/14/2010 6:40:55 PM

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When I would go to a lifestyle event and tell people I was a switch, there were those who told me I was new and didn't know what I wanted. I explained to them that I used to identify as a sub and was growing, and was certainly not new. They did not understand.

But you know what? Back when I really was new, and I identified only as a sub, there were those who did not understand when I said I was a sub but not a slave. There were people who kept trying to change me and told me I "should" want to be a slave.

No matter what you call yourself, some people won't understand, and some will even be rude about it.

(in reply to lovingpet)

RE: Are switches looked down upon? - 3/14/2010 7:08:41 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HeathenMa1am
No matter what you call yourself, some people won't understand, and some will even be rude about it.

Ain't it the truth.

quote:

ORIGINAL: GoFigure
I just don't see why that's not thought to be kosher around here.

OP,
Does it really matter if other people think your choices are "kosher" or not? If you and your partner are happy...it really shouldn't.

Be true to yourself and be honest with your partner...everyone else is background noise.

BTW...welcome!

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RE: Are switches looked down upon? - 3/15/2010 12:46:26 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CarrieO
OP,
Does it really matter if other people think your choices are "kosher" or not? If you and your partner are happy...it really shouldn't.

Be true to yourself and be honest with your partner...everyone else is background noise.

BTW...welcome!

Thanks for the welcome. I get what you're saying. It's just that I haven't found a partner yet and I fear that my tag as a switch may ward off potential mates. But I suppose it's a good test because anyone who really interests me won't be too wrapped up in the label.

Truth be told I am a natural sub with slave potential. But I identify as a switch because I have a dominant side that the right gal can tap into as well. I can act upon either in isolation, or together. If anything I would think this versatility would be desired in a partner. But I understand the criticisms a lot more after reading that thread, lovingpet.

Thanks a lot for the answers guys. And for not making me feel ignorant.

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RE: Are switches looked down upon? - 3/15/2010 12:57:18 AM

Domin8tingUrDrmz

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When I first joined this site, I labeled myself a switch because I occasionally like to be topped. I have a mild masochistic streak that I like to have satiated from time to time. However, I'm not at all submissive.

I would enjoy owning a male who was submissive and could occasionally top without thinking he was in effect dominating me. Quite simply, if he tried to 'dominate' me, I'd likely laugh at his attempts and remind him who is actually in charge. Topping and domination are not necessarily synonymous. Bottoming and submission also are not necessarily synonymous. Some people have a really hard time wrapping their head around that...lol.

I don't seek out switches because often, from my experience, they also want to have the option to dominate someone, whether that be me or someone else. I am not seeking a person who wants to dominate another. One who's capable of topping is a different story entirely and one I'd be happy to have.

I don't think that actually answered your question of whether or not people look down upon switches, but I hope it clarifies at least why some of us do not actively seek those who label themselves as such.

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RE: Are switches looked down upon? - 3/15/2010 3:17:46 AM

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We are the hermaphrodites of the BDSM world!
A Dominant doesn't want us because we are not submissive enough and a submissive doesn't want us because they see switchery as weak.
A switch clearly needs to find another switch but even that gets complicated because most switches will lean more heavily to one side than the other.

I am in a switch relationship and its perfect. I spent years as a Domme and so this part is the result of a very long journey (no confusion) It flows very easily and there are no frustrated expectations. I think we have both reached a stage of accepting that this is all about having some fun, especially as foreplay. We just don't take it seriously like we used to.
Now those last words could actually make us players. Oh my god have we really become the lowest of the low!! and yet where we once enjoyed BDSM clubs, we now enjoy fet clubs where theres more dancing and socializing than BDSM activities. The BDSM clubs have become players clubs, the fet clubs have become open minded celebrations.
You will here now and again (quite a lot actually) that switches don't take any of this seriously.
My question to that would be 'take what seriously? take our relationship seriously? take our dominance or our submission seriously?
My answer is this... My dominance feels more natural now than it ever has done. I refuse to not be the person I was born and raised to be and that's an independent woman who makes her own decisions. There will be no pretense, no more playing cowboys and Indians behind our four walls. Our vanilla friends see us as the same couple they would see at home (if they could be a fly on the wall) and just like any other couple, our sex life and what we get up to is none of their business.

Wow, what a long journey its been to reach this point!

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(in reply to Domin8tingUrDrmz)

RE: Are switches looked down upon? - 3/15/2010 5:53:58 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GoFigure

<snip> I get what you're saying. It's just that I haven't found a partner yet and I fear that my tag as a switch may ward off potential mates. But I suppose it's a good test because anyone who really interests me won't be too wrapped up in the label. <snip>

Partner or no partner, it doesn't matter. People, even non-kinky folks, will get caught up in labels and use them to try and make you fit the image in their head. By being true to yourself and being honest with others, you defy their preconcieved notions and force them to face your reality.

Some people don't like that...it throws them off-kilter and they may choose to pass you by. Is that such a loss? Wouldn't you rather have people in your life who accept you for you and not for what they think you should be? Some people will call you a player who can't make up his mind. If those words don't describe you then don't worry...define yourself. I use the made-up word unboxable to describe me...not just in a kink way. People either accept me or they don't.

Be a person with character....not just a character.

The thread lovingpet posted is a great example of preconcieved notions some people have and how inflexible they can be with those images. I would suggest you read some of the much older threads posted on this forum also...lots of great insight and ideas.

Take some time to figure out what it is that attracts you to a top or bottom role. Figure out how dominance and submission fits into that. Take everything you've learned...file it under "GoFigure file #1" and start again. Rinse and repeat until you become enlightened.

This should take a lifetime. There's always room for growth and exploration. Don't become a stagnate pond full of nothing but brackish water and bits of algae.

Oh...and don't forget to smile, mind your manners and have fun.

And don't forget to wear_sunscreen .

*edited to add.....Okay, I just viewed your profile. I'm going to offer some advice and you can use it however you wish. You've been here for 2 days and you already have a bevy of online dommes as friends. The first thing listed as a "live for" is strap-ons. You list yourself as an expert in poetry, writing and psychology (lose the "expert" labels...even if you are one). You have next to nothing in your profile or journal that says who you are. Who are you?
These things alone would make me question why you're here. If you want to be seen as someone who has more going for him then just a label....prove it. Make it so! Use your "expert" writing abilities to whip out a knock 'em dead profile that talks about who you are, what you have to offer and what you're looking for.

This is all about presentation...present yourself as you'd like to be seen.

Go to the Ask a Mistress forum and have a look at the FAQ thread. There should be a link offered that talks about making a profile...read it.

Good luck.

< Message edited by CarrieO -- 3/15/2010 6:37:44 AM >

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RE: Are switches looked down upon? - 3/15/2010 1:12:40 PM

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This question gets asked so many times, and it always breaks my switchy little heart to see someone new to the boards go through this. Even when I went through it. It's so completely and horrifically true that some people, both Doms and subs, look down on Switches. There isn't much degrading that Switches haven't gone through at some point in time. Indecisive, players, power mongerers, smart assed maschocist, so on so forth. It drives me crazy that just because I know exactly what I want, I'm told that I must not know because I can't choose one side or the other. Doms don't look down on subs because they choose to be the one to take the punishment, the humiliation from the Doms. Subs don't look down on Doms because they feel the need to punish and humiliate. So how is it that someone who has the ability to do both, at any time, and enjoy the crap out of it, is looked down upon? I cherish the fact that I am a Switch because there aren't very many actual Switches. I think a lot more people than claim don't know exactly what they want, and simply cling to one title or another. It doesn't make anyone any less "true" to the BDSM scene. It means there is more to learn, more to grow, and anyone who thinks they are done growing should check their pulse, cuz as long as they have one, there is still more growth do be done.

And I wanted to take a sec and also thank those who answered GoFigure's question. You guys/gals were all way supportive, and any time I see that on the boards I have to take a second and bring a spotlight to it. It makes me remember why I keep my collarme profile, and why I still come to the boards even after all the Doms claiming they own me through the internet, and subs who claim I own them through the internet. x.x Rekindles my fire that there are healthy at least quasi sane people in the lifestyle I should be trying to find.. :D

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RE: Are switches looked down upon? - 3/15/2010 5:39:53 PM

beej

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CarrieO

This is all about presentation...present yourself as you'd like to be seen.

this, i think, is the bottom line. calling yourself a switch, if indeed you are one, is truth in advertising as far as your profile. sure, that may cut you off of some people's quick scan lists, but a charming email proposing why you have taken an interest in whatever sub/Domme should at least get you an audience with some eligible ladies. though i always read profiles, i depend upon what someone says in email to get the gist of where they are coming from. that might be the best place for you to self-identify as well. :) good luck.

(in reply to CarrieO)

RE: Are switches looked down upon? - 3/16/2010 1:08:57 PM

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I am new to this life style!! I haven't got a clue if I am Sub, Dom, Subdom, Domsub or Subdomdomsub Domdom!!!

Therefor i must be a switch till i find out!!!LOL

Keep smiling till the pain takes over!!! :0

(in reply to beej)

RE: Are switches looked down upon? - 3/16/2010 4:44:10 PM

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I could not tell you how many profiles i have seen that have, "NO SWITCHES!!!"
All caps with exclamation points.

These same people would be appalled at being called racist or sexist, yet Domist is fine.

I stopped putting switch in my profile because I am capable of being happy without switching. Quadrupled my responses overnight.

So yes, Some people look down on switches. Similar to how many in the gay community look down on bisexual people.

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RE: Are switches looked down upon? - 3/16/2010 9:28:12 PM

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~Fast Repy~
It's really too bad that so many people look down on switches. i'm not a switch, but i used to have a switch play partner/FWB. He could be the Domliest Dom or the most submissive sub. It was wonderful & he's still about my best male friend to this day.

And just as Domin8ting said "Bottoming and submission also are not necessarily synonymous," neither is Topping and Domming. We took turns and i could Top him w/o being a Domme, because i was doing it for HIM. That's how i wrapped my submissive mind around it.

It is similar to how many in the gay community look down on bisexual people. It sucks. my opinion is, some people are closed-minded and just get too hung up on labels instead of being in tune with the individual person. Sad really.

~kitten~

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RE: Are switches looked down upon? - 3/17/2010 11:17:26 AM

hisdarlinsweetie

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I think that some Dom/mes and subs don't have an interest in switches because they want to have someone who has dominant or submissive personality traits outside of play. For me personally, I couldn't have a relationship with a switch or sub because I want someone who takes the lead in the relationship. While I love being used sexually for His gratification, our relationship is based on more than play. Outside the bedroom (or where ever we decide to enjoy ourselves), we are still Dominant and submissive.

It's great that there are people out there that enjoy topping and bottoming, but I think that many (including myself) don't understand switching in a context power exchange. I know that not all BDSM is about power exchange, but from reading profiles and the boards, it seems that most are looking for some form of it. It seems that for those looking for "lifestyle" partners, Doms and subs are looking for their counterparts so they don't consider switches a good match. Just my 2 cents.

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RE: Are switches looked down upon? - 3/17/2010 11:59:45 AM

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~Fast Reply~

There is always the misconception that switches aren't able to take a dominant or submissive position within a relationship exclusively.

Being able to switch doesn't mean a they can't, sometimes it means they choose to with the appropriate partner and if the opportunity arises....other times it means they are able to be either, dominant or submissive, within a relationship but choose to stay within the boundaries of their current position given the dynamics.

A switch can be both top and bottom and can, depending on their desire for a power exchange relationship, be dominant or submissive.

It's silly and more than a bit sad that people get so amazingly caught up in labels and power positions that they're unable to look beyond the always accepted "should" and see the the posibilities of the "could" within anything...in this case, switching.

I was given to understand WIITWD was more encompassing than just BDSM and any other group of letters. For me, at least, it is.
Like I told the OP...be a person of character and not a character. I like to think we all have more to offer than just a label and that people of character are able to get past those labels to see what matters.

Here's a link to a great article on switches titled
" Switches as Non-Entities" http://www.thedomsview.com/Vol9/Q3/switch.htm Just some food for thought.

*edited to add...I've made the decision to list myself as a switch, regardless of others biased opinions, because it best describes me...not because I'm unable to make up my mind.
To do otherwise would be dishonest to any prospective partners.

< Message edited by CarrieO -- 3/17/2010 12:03:59 PM >

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RE: Are switches looked down upon? - 3/17/2010 12:12:28 PM

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Of the kinky people I've met in real life, myself included, most people are far more complex than just purely dominant or purely submissive. Some of the people of my acquaintance are dominant masochists, sadistic submissives, service tops, dominant sensual bottoms and so on. I think that much like sexuality, there is a scale with pure dominance on one end and pure submissiveness on the other, and that most people lie someplace in between.
That said, I am guilty of passing over switch profiles. The reason is that I seek something very specific, and have had enough trouble filtering through undesirable or inappropriate candidates that adding switch orientation to the mix would only confuse things further. Much like bisexuals, I think people labeling themselves as "switch" get a bad rap in some circles. We fear, perhaps unjustly, they might be indecisive, or turn on us mid-scene. While its important to be upfront about these things, I wonder if you wouldn't have more success using the rather limiting "submissive" label just for the purposes of this site, and then elaborating in your profile that sometimes you like to top. I would like to see CM offer us a wide range of labels, and allow us to have many descriptors of our orientations so that instead of just being "dominant" or "submissive" or "switch", one could specify "sadomasochistic service top" or what have you.

Oh. I just looked at the OP's profile and realized it WAS labelled submissive.

< Message edited by Voodali -- 3/17/2010 12:13:57 PM >

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RE: Are switches looked down upon? - 3/17/2010 12:17:20 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Voodali

Oh. I just looked at the OP's profile and realized it WAS labelled submissive.

Interesting...and he completely re-wrote it. OP, I wish you the best in your search...where ever it may take you.

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RE: Are switches looked down upon? - 3/17/2010 3:26:11 PM

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Thanks a lot for the feedback guys. Yeah, I decided to list myself as a sub. I mean, there's a part of me that would love to dom, but that desire is overwhelmingly overshadowed by a need to serve. That's what it comes down to. I'd like to dominate, but I need to submit. For that reason I've decided to take the label of sub.

I also did lose the expert tags. They never felt right. I've had a long standing history of self esteem deficiencies, so I figured I'd give myself a pat on the back and say, "yeah I am a great writer." But any yahoo with a finger and a mouse can check the "Expert" tag next to an interest. Potential connections can read my profile and act as the judge themselves.

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RE: Are switches looked down upon? - 3/17/2010 3:44:39 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GoFigure
Potential connections can read my profile and act as the judge themselves.

Amen!

You did a great job on the re-write...enough to tease and leave them curious. One thing you may consider,re-read what Voodali wrote about about elborating in your profile about your top/dom desires. That was very good advice.

OP, I'd like to thank you for starting this thread. This forum isn't the most lively on CM's message boards and it's always nice when something new and interesting gets posted.

Like I said....best of luck.

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(in reply to GoFigure)

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