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RE: Women's Rights! - 3/21/2010 1:10:35 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level
: Bull, I do fall on the pro-life side, most always, but it has always bothered me that those views do remove some of a woman's say-so over her body. It just bothers me less than ending the child's life.

Pnly some of a woman's say so over her body? Which parts doesn't it remove, pray tell?

I think what Level is trying to say, if I understand him well, is that the thing he doesn't like about the concept of pro-life is that it takes away part of a woman's say over what happens to her body but that for him, this isn't as bad as what he considers to be the ending of a life.

While I respect Level's opinion, I do not see an abortion in the first trimester as the ending of a life. I see it as terminating a pregnancy.

It is not a glamorous thing to go through and I know that for many women who go through it, they go through the guilt associated with it, because it isn't all cut and dry in their minds. But the reason why abortions are legal is because legally there is no ending of life.

- LA

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RE: Women's Rights! - 3/21/2010 1:11:14 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

On that note, then you must surely believe anybody wanting an abortion for reasons other than rape or incest should be required to pay for it themselves (the whole 2 to tango thing)?

We've been over this about 20-30 times in this thread. In countries where there are government funded abortion, most do because if you are going to go through such a traumatic event, it is worth it to go to a private clinic and pay for the discretion and comfort.

The government funded hospital abortion would mostly be given to women who could not afford it. Now think about it simply from an economic perspective. If a woman cannot afford $500 or so for an abortion which is going to massively impact her life for at least the next 18 years, how do you expect her to have enough money to raise a baby.

Another point that was made earlier is that the same women that would take advantage of such a system are the women who if they had babies would take advantage of the welfare system. Which is a bigger dent in your taxpayer's wallet?

You have to start looking at this issue systemically.

- LA

LA,

I was simply replying to the outlandish post by the person I quoted. I have purposely avoided commenting in this thread, as I see it as more of a woman's issue to be decided upon. I simply ask that as I do not try to force my position on others, that others return the favor.

THIS JUST BREAKING. Rep. Stupak and the White House have reached an agreement on this very issue. The President will be signing an executive order that is in line with the Stupak language from the House bill. Basicly stating that no federal dollars can or will be used to fund abortions. More as it become available.

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RE: Women's Rights! - 3/21/2010 1:14:09 PM

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quote:

THIS JUST BREAKING. Rep. Stupak and the White House have reached an agreement on this very issue. The President will be signing an executive order that is in line with the Stupak language from the House bill. Basicly stating that no federal dollars can or will be used to fund abortions. More as it become available.

It is a very sad day for the disenfranchised women of America.

- LA

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RE: Women's Rights! - 3/21/2010 1:15:36 PM

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Word!!! Lady A

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RE: Women's Rights! - 3/21/2010 1:16:02 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

On that note, then you must surely believe anybody wanting an abortion for reasons other than rape or incest should be required to pay for it themselves (the whole 2 to tango thing)?

We've been over this about 20-30 times in this thread. In countries where there are government funded abortion, most do because if you are going to go through such a traumatic event, it is worth it to go to a private clinic and pay for the discretion and comfort.
- LA

Well...I can't say that in that private clinic it would have been any more discrete or comfort then in the typical NHS hospital over here, but at least it did speed up the process once the decision was made (after many tries to find alternative ways) big time...because once you made that decision as your final decision the last thing you want is to wait longer and longer as the procedure itself gets more complicated and on top of it more unpleasant to do it, as the feeling that this is lieing ahead is not a pleasant one considering that you do know that the foetus keeps growing, as some naive souls think it would be.

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(in reply to LadyAngelika)

RE: Women's Rights! - 3/21/2010 1:16:57 PM

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Yep,they are holding the news conference right now.....seems they are speaking for American families from all across the nation.
People that speak for such a large cross section in one voice scare me...and I don't care whether they be Repub's or Dems

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RE: Women's Rights! - 3/21/2010 1:20:09 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

THIS JUST BREAKING. Rep. Stupak and the White House have reached an agreement on this very issue. The President will be signing an executive order that is in line with the Stupak language from the House bill. Basicly stating that no federal dollars can or will be used to fund abortions. More as it become available.

It is a very sad day for the disenfranchised women of America.

- LA

Sorry about the derail, the Rep came to the mic in the middle of me typing... Makes for an interesting question though. Can the President legally declare where federal funds are spent or not spent, without Congressional direction? In other words, the announced executive order will most certainly be challenged on constitutional grounds. More to come.

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RE: Women's Rights! - 3/21/2010 1:21:50 PM

zephyroftheNorth

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

THIS JUST BREAKING. Rep. Stupak and the White House have reached an agreement on this very issue. The President will be signing an executive order that is in line with the Stupak language from the House bill. Basicly stating that no federal dollars can or will be used to fund abortions. More as it become available.

It is a very sad day for the disenfranchised women of America.

- LA

I agree. On the other hand I'm not surprised, even in this day and age, abortion is still a controversial issue. There was no chance this was ever going to fly, nonetheless it saddens me that this has happened, it's a step backwards.

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(in reply to LadyAngelika)

RE: Women's Rights! - 3/21/2010 1:24:29 PM

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I hope American woman are clear about what just happened ...their President and a few of their Democratic represenatives have just sold their rights down the river in order to advance the cause of Health Care Reform.

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If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to Thadius)

RE: Women's Rights! - 3/21/2010 1:26:36 PM

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quote:

Well...I can't say that in that private clinic it would have been any more discrete or comfort then in the typical NHS hospital over here

That is strange. They run a business and part of running that business is to offer a service. I bet you that had you gotten funded hospital abortions, they would feel that they would need to step up their customer service to provide the added value of paying for one.

- LA

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RE: Women's Rights! - 3/21/2010 1:27:49 PM

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quote:

Sorry about the derail

It was right on topic and timely actually.

- LA

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(in reply to Thadius)

RE: Women's Rights! - 3/21/2010 1:33:48 PM

Level

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level
: Bull, I do fall on the pro-life side, most always, but it has always bothered me that those views do remove some of a woman's say-so over her body. It just bothers me less than ending the child's life.

Pnly some of a woman's say so over her body? Which parts doesn't it remove, pray tell?

I think what Level is trying to say, if I understand him well, is that the thing he doesn't like about the concept of pro-life is that it takes away part of a woman's say over what happens to her body but that for him, this isn't as bad as what he considers to be the ending of a life.

While I respect Level's opinion, I do not see an abortion in the first trimester as the ending of a life. I see it as terminating a pregnancy.

- LA

Correct, LA, that's what I mean. And I recognize that many, if not most, pro-choice folks, honestly do not see it as the ending of a life.

moonhead: "Some"... a woman still controls everything else, except the abortion aspect, or that's what a pro-life stance would seem to advocate. I don't like that, but I don't like abortion, more.

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(in reply to LadyAngelika)

RE: Women's Rights! - 3/21/2010 1:36:08 PM

Level

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phoenixpower

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

quote:

ORIGINAL: WyldHrt

Ummm... gonna share those stocks when my plan takes off and everyone goes anal?
I wonder if I could get the support of the pro life folks. You know, something like "4/5 pro lifers recommend taking it up the ass"

As a pro lifer, I'll gladly nail several of you in the ass.

To the OP: Bull, I do fall on the pro-life side, most always, but it has always bothered me that those views do remove some of a woman's say-so over her body. It just bothers me less than ending the child's life.

Well, when you think that it is great to force a kid through the development in a womans body despite her health decreasing (does not matter if physical health or mental health or both) and expect that this will take no impact whatsoever on the kid...then so be it...

Thank goodness there are some people out there who enable us to exercise that choice when we feel it necessary to take it.

I don't think ANY of this is "great"; I think it is torturous, agonizing, and one of the most difficult issues anyone can face.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to Phoenixpower)

RE: Women's Rights! - 3/21/2010 1:41:01 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth
I agree. On the other hand I'm not surprised, even in this day and age, abortion is still a controversial issue. There was no chance this was ever going to fly, nonetheless it saddens me that this has happened, it's a step backwards.

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

I hope American woman are clear about what just happened ...their President and a few of their Democratic represenatives have just sold their rights down the river in order to advance the cause of Health Care Reform.

I get the funny feeling it was but a bargaining chip to begin with. I guess the money they save can go to helping bomb other nations and killing their young.

I'm feeling ill at the moment.

- LA

_____________________________

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RE: Women's Rights! - 3/21/2010 1:43:54 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level
: Bull, I do fall on the pro-life side, most always, but it has always bothered me that those views do remove some of a woman's say-so over her body. It just bothers me less than ending the child's life.

Pnly some of a woman's say so over her body? Which parts doesn't it remove, pray tell?

I think what Level is trying to say, if I understand him well, is that the thing he doesn't like about the concept of pro-life is that it takes away part of a woman's say over what happens to her body but that for him, this isn't as bad as what he considers to be the ending of a life.

While I respect Level's opinion, I do not see an abortion in the first trimester as the ending of a life. I see it as terminating a pregnancy.

- LA

Correct, LA, that's what I mean. And I recognize that many, if not most, pro-choice folks, honestly do not see it as the ending of a life.

I see it differently...pro-choice might still see it as the ending of a life, I certainly do... however, they do recognise that the woman in question can be in a personal situation where it is a better decision to go ahead with that decision then to force her to go through with the pregnancy. It is often not done with an easy decision but at times it can be better to decide to go for the termination then to go through with it.

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The PAST is history, the FUTURE a mystery, NOW is a gift - that's why it's called the PRESENT

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(in reply to Level)

RE: Women's Rights! - 3/21/2010 1:45:16 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phoenixpower

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

quote:

ORIGINAL: WyldHrt

Ummm... gonna share those stocks when my plan takes off and everyone goes anal?
I wonder if I could get the support of the pro life folks. You know, something like "4/5 pro lifers recommend taking it up the ass"

As a pro lifer, I'll gladly nail several of you in the ass.

To the OP: Bull, I do fall on the pro-life side, most always, but it has always bothered me that those views do remove some of a woman's say-so over her body. It just bothers me less than ending the child's life.

Well, when you think that it is great to force a kid through the development in a womans body despite her health decreasing (does not matter if physical health or mental health or both) and expect that this will take no impact whatsoever on the kid...then so be it...

Thank goodness there are some people out there who enable us to exercise that choice when we feel it necessary to take it.

I don't think ANY of this is "great"; I think it is torturous, agonizing, and one of the most difficult issues anyone can face.

I do agree with you on that one

at last

_____________________________

RIP 08-09-07

The PAST is history, the FUTURE a mystery, NOW is a gift - that's why it's called the PRESENT

www.butyoudontlooksick.com/navigation/BYDLS-TheSpoonTheory.pdf

(in reply to Level)

RE: Women's Rights! - 3/21/2010 1:46:33 PM

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Nah LA,this is more about the hammerlock the forces of religion have on the American political process.Even, sadly the Democratic side of things...here in America abortion is never about medical issues nor about monetary issues...its always the religious aspect that ties us up in knots.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

RE: Women's Rights! - 3/21/2010 1:47:54 PM

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I am having "the talk" with my daughter, that little sadomasochistic girl (I found restraints in her room). Just some general information and what is being discussed here. She is not interested in sex but she does have a BF and I told them that if they want to have sex, to practice safe sex (because I am too young to be a grandma). Then we discovered that her BF and I share the same b'day (one big cake all around). They do snuggle together, caught them with the sharpies marking each other and he makes sure that she is calm down at times.

Bo is getting a crash course in raising a teenager daughter..LOL! He is having flashbacks of himself when he was a teenager. He catches them in bed together (with clothes on) and feels that they are getting too close.

When I was her age, I did not have a BF, but I did kiss a few guys at school (against the PDA rules). One of them was my future hubby #1.

Got to excuse me, but I am about to make the both of them clean up her room and get the gaming systems into one area (not the living room).

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RE: Women's Rights! - 3/21/2010 2:58:50 PM

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Oh for goodness sake.

This is not a "step backwards" - a step backwards would require something to change. This is maintaining the status quo.

Women have not lost any rights today. Our rights were not thrown away. Women still have the exact same right to get an abortion as they did yesterday.

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

I hope American woman are clear about what just happened ...their President and a few of their Democratic represenatives have just sold their rights down the river in order to advance the cause of Health Care Reform.

As a woman, I can say that not only were no rights lost, but quite a few will be gained.

The right to a mammogram
The right to a pap smear
The right to a gyno visit
The right to treatment for breast and ovarian cancer
The right to have your child in a hospital surrounded by trained staff, without a bill that equals a couple years of that child's higher education

I'm sorry but really if you're saying that funding for abortion is more important than health care reform it might interest you to know that there are far more pressing issues regarding womens' health than what she does when and if she becomes pregnant.

< Message edited by Elisabella -- 3/21/2010 2:59:18 PM >

(in reply to zephyroftheNorth)

RE: Women's Rights! - 3/21/2010 3:01:21 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

Oh for goodness sake.

This is not a "step backwards" - a step backwards would require something to change. This is maintaining the status quo.

Women have not lost any rights today. Our rights were not thrown away. Women still have the exact same right to get an abortion as they did yesterday.

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

I hope American woman are clear about what just happened ...their President and a few of their Democratic represenatives have just sold their rights down the river in order to advance the cause of Health Care Reform.

As a woman, I can say that not only were no rights lost, but quite a few will be gained.

The right to a mammogram
The right to a pap smear
The right to a gyno visit
The right to treatment for breast and ovarian cancer
The right to have your child in a hospital surrounded by trained staff, without a bill that equals a couple years of that child's higher education

I'm sorry but really if you're saying that funding for abortion is more important than health care reform it might interest you to know that there are far more pressing issues regarding womens' health than what she does when and if she becomes pregnant.

Very sound points.

Yet none of those things become available to those not currently covered for another 4 years or so.

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

(in reply to Elisabella)

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