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RE: no bra, no panties ! - 3/20/2010 11:57:07 PM

Kana

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jujubeeMB

Panties coming off is sexier than panties being off in the first place, if you ask me

Absolutely.
Especially the first time. Yummmmmmmmmm. Why would I want to miss the sensation of peeling them off?
Take her. Tease her. Drive her crazy. Ah fuck, foreplay and seduction can become acts of diabolical dominance. A little thing like a pair of panties can be used to destroy her until she is the one begging, just begging, to to be rid of the damned things. That pair of panties can become an instrument of control and power extraordinaire in the hands of an artiste.
Grins
I'm a big believer in that old saying, "Always leave em wanting more."

_____________________________

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(in reply to jujubeeMB)

RE: no bra, no panties ! - 3/21/2010 3:00:45 AM

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I'm with DarkSteven - it's the element of control.

And I have asked this of subs a few times in the past - but only after we've got to know eachother very well online / phone first. Most of the time, the first meeting is about making sure we're nilla compatible - so in general I wouldn't ask this.

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

When I was still meeting Doms, the minute they would mention such things I would automatically turn down the meeting. It said they only had one intention with meeting me and it wasn't to get to know me.

I agree that its a warning light, and ultimately its absolutely your right to decide to cancel a meeting with someone who says something innapropriate (or for any other reason for that matter!) but I wonder if by automatically turning down a meeting the minute such things are even mentioned, you may have missed out on one or two really good potential relationships?

(in reply to littlewonder)

RE: no bra, no panties ! - 3/21/2010 3:03:08 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jujubeeMB

Panties coming off is sexier than panties being off in the first place, if you ask me

SWOON.. you're so so right

(in reply to jujubeeMB)

RE: no bra, no panties ! - 3/21/2010 6:38:55 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Born2BMasochist

I agree with DarkSteven. I believe it is a control issue. The Dom wants to see how submissive you are and whether you are willing to comply.

And I view that as an issue. I don't submit to someone I haven't met. Someone that I haven't found out if I even LIKE yet. And if that person shows up, you think they're a royal ass in person and you're never going to be in contact with them again....you've now given them mixed signals.

I wore whatever I wanted and was comfortable wearing.

_____________________________

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The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

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RE: no bra, no panties ! - 3/21/2010 6:58:51 AM

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There are issues too complex to explain to someone I just met, or haven't met yet. I am a big girl, and a diabetic. No bra, esp in the summer, will probably result in a topical skin infection from the sweat trapped in the skin on skin area. Since I am unlikely to find my forever home with someone who would ask this at a first meeting, it seems to me that this is likely to break my hard limit of 'no marks that will last longer than the Dom suggesting them.'

Last week I was chatting with a guy on here that I had exchanged a dozen letters with over a 2 month period. Seemed like a nice, normal guy; nothing out of place in the short letters we exchanged. In chat, however, he asked me the dreaded question: 'so, what are you wearing?'

Now, I live with my sister and BIL, my two nieces and a teenage nephew, and my mother. I just got home from work. I answered honestly: Scrubs. He asked what was under them. I told him why I wear a bra (because that description of a topical infection is got to be way sexy), and told him, if it excited him, i could admit that i was nude from the ankles down.

he didn't laugh. We aren't a match.

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~Dr. Seuss quote

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RE: no bra, no panties ! - 3/21/2010 7:17:04 AM

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I find some interesting parallels on this thread to one in the General Forum...

For me, as stated by a few others, it is a control issue. Not even looking to "score" on the first physical meet but at what level of submissiveness can we expect. If our society was a little more tolerant I think fully naked would not be out of the question. Then again, it would depend upon what level of communication has happened previous. It would not be appropriate for the first serious opportunity to meet one another, in that case I suppose being wary would be quite appropriate.

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What a man sees depends on what he looks at and what his previous experience has taught him to see.
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(in reply to tsatske)

RE: no bra, no panties ! - 3/21/2010 7:53:31 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tsatske
i was nude from the ankles down.

slut

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The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

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RE: no bra, no panties ! - 3/21/2010 8:16:11 AM

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This is kind of like using your slave like a rental car with insurance. As soon as you get it, floor it and be as rough as you can.It doesent matter if you destroy it or not.

Problem is...these girls arent objects and they have feelings. If they give you an inch(they agree to meet you) and you take ten miles and a half( NO PANTIES!) Then 9 times out of ten they will be too intimidated to meet up.

I like the "suggest that they wear red nail polish." idea myself. Its soft and gentle and not too demanding at first. You can get her motor revving later.

(in reply to WyldHrt)

RE: no bra, no panties ! - 3/21/2010 8:16:52 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

I agree that its a warning light, and ultimately its absolutely your right to decide to cancel a meeting with someone who says something innapropriate (or for any other reason for that matter!) but I wonder if by automatically turning down a meeting the minute such things are even mentioned, you may have missed out on one or two really good potential relationships?

Exactly.

Ladies, just my thoughts.....many potential D-types are just "testing the waters" with you - they want to get a feel for your submission when you meet, that's all - doesn't mean they're going to want to drag you into a janitor's closet and take you right there and then....many just want to see if they can begin to have that mental connection with you in addition to the physical, and i see that as a wonderful thing, not something to push away from.

i have some rules as unowned and meeting potential Owners, but my #1 rule is that if a request or command doesn't harm me physically or emotionally or involve a sex act in some way, i comply, even though he "doesn't own me yet." (A word to the wise girls, pull that line out and you might as well just delete his number from your phone).

And if i can't comply for some reason as unowned, i explain in a clear and non-emotional way - it is important that he know that i am able to provide information to him that he may need for his purposes without me getting all worked up over things.

Honestly, to me physical submission really just isn't that big a deal - i don't know why women create so much drama and fear over something that really can be so pleasing to a potential D-type. They don't - they just want to see if you can take that leap of faith and trust and begin something potentially meaningful with them. And for me, that potential is worth much more than not wearing a bra or panties.

(ETA - i will say that most of the potential Owners i've met with that are amongst the "good ones" don't make the no-bra-no-panties request - and they tend to appreciate very nice lingerie. So some of this really is just for discussion's sake, hee hee!)

< Message edited by UniqueRaven -- 3/21/2010 8:20:28 AM >

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RE: no bra, no panties ! - 3/21/2010 11:48:14 AM

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There is a big difference between "Testing the waters" at that first meeting by a) letting your preferences be known and watching for signs that she has made some effort toward those ends and b) Demanding she do X,Y or Z

a) I can't see many girls objecting to b) on the other hand rather shows the diminant has little awareness of or is simply ignoring the fact that the girl has not yet submitted, that the Authority is still in HER hands not Theirs. Before she submits they have no right nor authority to be making demands.

ETA: Saying "If you want Me to take the next step then I would require X, Y and Z"... isn't a DEMAND, it is a choice. Saying "When you turn up you will be wearing no pantys, a top hat and clown shoes"... THAT is phrased as a demand.

< Message edited by RavenMuse -- 3/21/2010 11:51:52 AM >

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And it must follow, as the night the day,
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(in reply to UniqueRaven)

RE: no bra, no panties ! - 3/21/2010 12:27:24 PM

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Raven,
IME, many of the types of Doms who would make such demands have a very vanilla mindset towards sluts. You know what vanillas think - sluts are bad, don't take home to mom. Not a keeper, but fun to do a quick run through and get what you can.
In my personal experience, when a guy decides to 'test the waters' of my submission by feeling me up in the parking lot, he generally doesn't call again. Obviously, he is not interested in a girl that would allow that - as steven pointed out, a slut.
Now, I don't mind this much, because the testing of waters works both ways. I am not interested in a man who thinks of women that way. But, I do disagree with you about rather I 'should' follow through. I doubt I will ever lose a good prospect this way, to be honest.
so much of it is in how I feel about how he made the request, as RavenMuse pointed out. If I feel like he is just reeling off the fantasies he keeps just for this purpose, hoping to get a free one in, with no acknowledgement of who I am individually, it sets off red flags. Esp the 'This is a reasonable request, any girl can fill, I don't see any reason for this to be a limit' kind of attitude.
On the other hand, if it is done as RavenMuse suggested, discussing his wants and giving me a chance to show that I want to fill them, I am much more likely to, well, want to fill them.

_____________________________

“If you never did you should. These things are fun and fun is good”
~Dr. Seuss quote

(in reply to RavenMuse)

RE: no bra, no panties ! - 3/21/2010 12:44:28 PM

osf

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I'v had some ask how they should dress

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(in reply to tsatske)

RE: no bra, no panties ! - 3/21/2010 1:09:09 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tsatske

Raven,
IME, many of the types of Doms who would make such demands have a very vanilla mindset towards sluts. You know what vanillas think - sluts are bad, don't take home to mom. Not a keeper, but fun to do a quick run through and get what you can.
In my personal experience, when a guy decides to 'test the waters' of my submission by feeling me up in the parking lot, he generally doesn't call again. Obviously, he is not interested in a girl that would allow that - as steven pointed out, a slut.
Now, I don't mind this much, because the testing of waters works both ways. I am not interested in a man who thinks of women that way. But, I do disagree with you about rather I 'should' follow through. I doubt I will ever lose a good prospect this way, to be honest.
so much of it is in how I feel about how he made the request, as RavenMuse pointed out. If I feel like he is just reeling off the fantasies he keeps just for this purpose, hoping to get a free one in, with no acknowledgement of who I am individually, it sets off red flags. Esp the 'This is a reasonable request, any girl can fill, I don't see any reason for this to be a limit' kind of attitude.
On the other hand, if it is done as RavenMuse suggested, discussing his wants and giving me a chance to show that I want to fill them, I am much more likely to, well, want to fill them.

i'm assuming this is directed at me? There are two "Ravens" here, hee hee!

Please note that in my post i said "my #1 rule is that if a request or command doesn't harm me physically or emotionally or involve a sex act in some way, i comply" - i'm not at all suggesting that a woman submit to being felt up in the parking lot if that is something she isn't ready to submit to - especially if he gives off that creepy i-just-wanna-feel-you-up vibe. i'm talking about pushing back over things like not wearing panties (i know for you, tsatske, not wearing a bra is different

) or painting nails red, as some have offered as an alternative, things like that.

i love the way RavenMuse phrased things, and that definitely is an ideal. Ultimately in practice for many Dominant men creating the difference between offering her a choice and making a demand can be fuzzy - not all men are as gifted with the ability to phrase things so well. In that case, for me, actions, and intent, show much more than actual words.

And again, there's nothing wrong with a submissive woman having boundaries - she needs them as unowned property - just my view is it goes much farther to respectfully, honestly, and clearly explain why you cannot submit to a request vs. what some women do - which is throwing the "you don't own me yet" line around (not implying you tsatske at all, just speaking generally here).

Just my thoughts.

i don't ever claim to know the "one true way," for sure.

_____________________________

"My life has no purpose, no direction, no aim, no meaning, and yet I'm happy. I can't figure it out. What am I doing right?" ~Snoopy (Charles Schultz)

My blog is at http://takinghishand.wordpress.com

(in reply to tsatske)

RE: no bra, no panties ! - 3/21/2010 1:18:14 PM

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quote:

Exactly.

Ladies, just my thoughts.....many potential D-types are just "testing the waters" with you - they want to get a feel for your submission when you meet, that's all - doesn't mean they're going to want to drag you into a janitor's closet and take you right there and then....many just want to see if they can begin to have that mental connection with you in addition to the physical, and i see that as a wonderful thing, not something to push away from.

Edited for brevity

Great post Unique.

I like RavenMuse's approach as well.

Personally , I am generally 'testing', trying to find a level. That level is a functional part of our progress and connection. It provides other clues as to where she is, as well. I wonder if "I want you to show up with coffee" would be seen as testing submission above and beyond expectation. We''ll be having sex if you do. Coffee is just the prelude, that's how I do things; so hang on to that paranoia .

On the other hand, I would have already been testing and getting a feel for submission before meeting, so I don't think I would suggest anything beyond comfort levels that haven't already been reached or pushable a little. First meetings are difficult enough, but I still think there needs to be some readable level of submission and that depends largely on where we are in relating, before the meet.

I think there are those who move too quickly (if your intent is a LTR relationship) and I suspect there is more likely to be some 'painting of all D-types or all encounters with one brush' as a result. Nothing wrong with quick, mind you, as long as one realizes that it is more likely the speed that creates this 'disappointing' generalization. To create some 'dishonor' in wanting to see one in or out of bra and panties, kind of defeats a whole lot of inherent relationship dynamics that need to be in play at some point. That is counter intuitive if you ask me.

(in reply to RavenMuse)

RE: no bra, no panties ! - 3/21/2010 2:15:50 PM

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I prefer my prospective subs to wear their bra and panties. When I decide to claim them, i remove their ability to wear what they want, and confiscate their undergarments and replace them with ones i supply.

Maybe its just me, but panties are kind of like wrapping paper....

(in reply to swaybackgirl)

RE: no bra, no panties ! - 3/21/2010 2:24:26 PM

osf

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I, probably like most men that are serious by the time a meeting is arranged will if smart not push the dress code. It doesn't take much to make a subbie get nervous and bolt, the new ones any way, the more experienced ones have been through it before.

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RE: no bra, no panties ! - 3/21/2010 2:49:36 PM

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~Fast Reply~
i will ask a Dominant how He prefers a submissive to dress, but that doesn't mean He will get to see all of me on a first meet.....

~kitten~

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New beginnings...my first poly relationship.

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RE: no bra, no panties ! - 3/21/2010 2:55:01 PM

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~FR~

My partner gave such an instruction and he is far from a slobbering, goober wannabe. We had spoken online for over a month and were quite comfortable with each other. In all honesty, wearing no undergarmets is a rather harmless suggestion. It is explicitly visible to no one. If I hadn't complied, the only way he would have known it for absolute certain would have been to feel me up. This little exercise wasn't for him. It was for me. Would I comply even when my obedience wouldn't be blatantly obvious? Was it enough for me to know I did as asked without all the bravado?

This wasn't the only instruction he gave me though. I had a few other notable appearance requirements along with some things I was expect to have brought along with me. He did ask for my hair to be styled a certain way and for me to NOT wear make up. He also wanted me in subtle, but themed dress. The instructions got even more specific at what to bring. He wanted me to have a specific brand and weight dark chocolate bar and an orange Gatorade. How odd. Would I just do it without trying to second guess? Would I simply refuse the instructions because they seemed silly, stupid, or too rigid?

We live a fair distance apart. We don't need an airplane, but nearly three hours by car is more than enough to have us make the most of every opportunity we've gotten to spend time together. We knew each other fairly well from our talks beforehand. We didn't know how it would translate into real time, but planned to move on into playtime provided we did connect well in person. I think it would have been a terrible thing to have ditched it all by not doing a few simple things that would set the tone and his first real time impressions of me. I asked for modification of a few of his instructions because I wasn't comfortable with them and he had no issue with adjusting things to help me feel better at ease and to be more practical given the real time circumstances we were facing.

That's the key. OP, if you aren't comfortable, then say so and ask about modifications. If you don't need to make the most of your time each visit, then explain that you really do not want to get into a play dynamic from the first meeting. This is pure communication. I would think a good dominant would take real life circumstances into consideration and adjust things as needed. It may not be an adjustment you like. Be prepared for that. Not everything is meant to be liked though. Some dominants need their submissive to submit to things they are not comfortable with in order to be saited. Some do not.

In the end, OP, I did as he asked with the few modifications he made. We hit it off just fine and my lack of undies really didn't do a thing to our ability to get to know one another and connect in the real life environment. We had a very seamless transition from online to real world. We are a strong couple. We have done very well together and through quite a bit of various adversities. I don't think this has to be the sinister thing that I'm sure it has been painted to be in this thread. Mature people can focus regardless of knowing such silly information. It didn't change how I interacted with him. As far as I was concerned, it was laundry day and I had run out of bras and panties. As far as he was concerned, whatever I did or did not have on didn't obscure his view of ME, the actual person. It was just a silly, fun thing to do for two people who already had a pretty solid relationship both within and outside a dynamic. Is there any chance that this really doesn't need to be analyzed, picked apart, and critiqued? Do you really think this is about HIM? My guess is it is bring a lot of things about you and your own submission into sharper focus. No matter what it looks like, there is nothing wrong with it, but it lets you know yourself and what you need. Consider it a blessing to have had this insight.

lovingpet

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RE: no bra, no panties ! - 3/21/2010 3:57:31 PM

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You guys have it all wrong.

Plenty of women who would show up without panties are not what I would call submissives and plenty who would laugh in my face if I asked them to show up sans underwear are deeply submissive.

Just like anything in bdsm, it is a dance, one can tell the ones who want to play it straight and those who want to play NOW.

I mean how often do you get to arrange something where you walk up to a woman you have never met, never seen in real life, and just slide your hand up under her dress? I can remember the first time I saw HER walking, knowing she was naked under that dress....oh my fucking god that was hot.

I would have been just as happy to meet her if she was wearing a welded on chastity belt IF that was what was right in the sense of making it the best meeting possible. The point is to have fun and meet someone new. Sometimes that means being shoved up against a brick wall in an alley with your arms pinned over your head and other times it means sitting down for a very vanilla lunch and just getting to know each other.

I have enjoyed both kinds of meetings and and have had great relationships stem from both.

HOWEVER, for women so fucking desperate to meet a dom they will do whatever dumbass thing he orders just on the off chance he might "oh god its so hot dominate me" then you are likely to have a shitty time. If doing so makes your cunt wet, go for it, but please dear god don't do it because you think you have to. Give the guy a break however, sometimes he thinks YOU want to do that stuff and figures if he doesn't push, he will be thought a pussy and trust me, there ARE women out there like that. If you otherwise like the guy, make it fun, tell him that you won't but if you like him you might let him guess what color you are wearing and if he gets it right....

This is supposed to be fun, hot, nasty, erotic, sensual and if meeting the guy seems like a fucking chore, the sex isn't likely to be any better, wait for the guy for whom wearing underwear just seems so damn wrong, or right, or whatever but you are doing it because you WANT to!

(in reply to lovingpet)

RE: no bra, no panties ! - 3/21/2010 7:38:24 PM

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I'm going to have to agree with the "please wear all your clothes for the first meet" crowd. Depending on how things are going with getting to know someone in those first days, I do opt for the white top/black bottoms manner of dress if things are looking up. It does give an opportunity to find out what their own personal taste in clothes, since "white top and black bottom" does leave a lot of leeway.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

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