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RE: no bra, no panties ! - 3/21/2010 8:08:40 PM

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I may be wrong but it seems that the assumption of many here is that a woman showing up without underwear is ready to hop into bed. This isn't a nightclub, it is a meeting between two adults looking to begin a relationship. One difference is the kind of relationship that they are hoping to begin, one person in control, one in submission. If the sub is not comfortable taking requests/orders for the first meet then that should be a clue that this relationship will not fit. However, the assumption I am reading into some posts that anyone who would leave the house sans underwear is ready to give it up at the drop of the hat is wrong. Again, perhaps I am wrong, but it is my perception of what is being posted. Sounds to me like there are some Doms who wouldn't ask for a lack of underwear on the second or third meet. To each his/her own as it were. Is it a red flag? No. Is it something to consider in regards to the future of the relationship? Most definitely, yes.

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What a man sees depends on what he looks at and what his previous experience has taught him to see.
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(in reply to JeykllnHyde)

RE: no bra, no panties ! - 3/21/2010 8:25:21 PM

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quote:

If the sub is not comfortable taking requests/orders for the first meet then that should be a clue that this relationship will not fit.

In your case, lucky girl. I would not consider a woman not taking my orders for a first meet any sign at all, not good nor bad. It might mean she is a woman with standards or it might mean she is a bitch. I have met plenty of women who would make amazing slaves for ONE man who would laugh at anyone who they hadn't met giving them orders.

And I say that as someone who once met a woman into meeting me naked, blindfolded, with her mouth open for me to use inside the hotel room AND pay me to fuck her. However, I didn't "dom" my way into that, it was hot and mutual. Other women, I showed up at a cafe having no idea what they might be wearing, dress or slacks because the topic never came up.

(in reply to Sirtomypet)

RE: no bra, no panties ! - 3/21/2010 8:25:56 PM

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Thank you!

It meant nothing to our conversation or interaction that I was not wearing any underthings at dinner. If it envokes some kind of response that is not conducive to mature, intelligent social interaction, then I would have discussed this concern and perhaps had a change put in place. It didn't mean a fig to me, however, and it really didn't matter to him. I can't say it changed the tone of our interaction one bit. I had done these things because he had asked me to do them, but to me it was the same as someone noting what acceptable attire was based on a club dress code. In the end, it wound up being far more significant than that, but it did not have such a bearing during our initial time together.

If this had been another situation and had we not spoken at length for quite some time, I likely would have never "gone to bed" on a "first date". It's not my style. It was degrees of connection. We connected very well online, so we decided to see if it would follow into real time, if it would hold if he gave an instruction, if we were in private alone, if we did bdsm play, etc. It was step by step by step. Ultimately, we took a lot of steps in a short span of time, but each was measured out and comfortable for both. For a local person and in a situation with less time for connection and dynamic to grow, I would have likely not even asked what he wanted and shown up as I pleased. There would have been no option of continuing in private after the public portion and things would have gone a whole lot slower. Even if I showed up without bra and panties, per his request or not, my intent would not change. It would only note a difference in dynamic progression at best or just my whimsy to have a good time with life more likely. A chick without panties isn't necessarily easy. She is just not wearing panties.

lovingpet

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(in reply to Sirtomypet)

RE: no bra, no panties ! - 3/21/2010 9:06:34 PM

takemeforyourown

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If I just wanted to play and get laid, I'd go without panties- but braless with these jugs is a hard limit for me! If I thought that I might really like to get to know a potential partner/Dom, I would be turned off if he demanded ANYTHING related to my underthings on the first meeting.

(in reply to WyldHrt)

RE: no bra, no panties ! - 3/21/2010 9:47:19 PM

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I don't understand what the big deal is about being asked to not wear a bra or panties. If you're going on a date with a man, it means you're interested or at least curious. He's interested or at least curious. It's not like a business meeting, it's a date, for crying out loud. What's wrong with being a little sexy? What's "red flaggy" about a dominant man being a little dominant on a first date and a submissive woman being a little submissive on a first date?

With the exception of those who are very well-endowed on top, how could not wearing a bra or panties be dangerous or harmful? By skipping underwear, I don't forfeit my responsibility to say no to anything that is dangerous or illegal. If he takes my not wearing underwear as evidence that I will do anything he wants, well, he has the right to think that, and he may be wrong, and he has the right to be wrong, just as if I show up without underwear and get the creeps when I meet him, I have the right to cut the date short and take my pantyless cunt home and masturbate. No harm, no foul.

_____________________________

“There are those who give with joy, & that joy is their reward.” Gibran / "Those who are willing to be vulnerable move among mysteries." Roethke / "Let the beauty we love be what we do. There are hundreds of ways to kneel & kiss the ground." Rumi

(in reply to takemeforyourown)

RE: no bra, no panties ! - 3/21/2010 9:52:51 PM

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One thing, if you said "no" and he decided to ignore you and take what he wanted any way...some slimy lawyer (sorry lawyers out there) could use that against you, saying you showed up wanting it

Not saying it's right, but it happens with a lot less

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RE: no bra, no panties ! - 3/21/2010 10:07:51 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DrkJourney
One thing, if you said "no" and he decided to ignore you and take what he wanted any way...some slimy lawyer (sorry lawyers out there) could use that against you, saying you showed up wanting it

Not saying it's right, but it happens with a lot less

Not to minimize the fact that this does happen every once in a while, but I don't think it's logical or reasonable to prep for a date by thinking about the worst possible scenario. There's a difference between caution and paranoia.

_____________________________

“There are those who give with joy, & that joy is their reward.” Gibran / "Those who are willing to be vulnerable move among mysteries." Roethke / "Let the beauty we love be what we do. There are hundreds of ways to kneel & kiss the ground." Rumi

(in reply to DrkJourney)

RE: no bra, no panties ! - 3/21/2010 10:28:07 PM

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No bra, no panties?

Where is the fun in that? I prefer to have my cut or ripped off.

quote:

ORIGINAL: swaybackgirl

Why does it seem that the majority of dom's make the "1st meeting "
with a sub girl and want her to show up with no bra, no panties?
I sense red flags when I hear this,

Do Dom Ladies order sub boys to show up commando ?

Do You ? Would you require it ? please explain, Why ?

(in reply to swaybackgirl)

RE: no bra, no panties ! - 3/22/2010 8:12:59 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

quote:

If the sub is not comfortable taking requests/orders for the first meet then that should be a clue that this relationship will not fit.

In your case, lucky girl. I would not consider a woman not taking my orders for a first meet any sign at all, not good nor bad. It might mean she is a woman with standards or it might mean she is a bitch. I have met plenty of women who would make amazing slaves for ONE man who would laugh at anyone who they hadn't met giving them orders.

And I say that as someone who once met a woman into meeting me naked, blindfolded, with her mouth open for me to use inside the hotel room AND pay me to fuck her. However, I didn't "dom" my way into that, it was hot and mutual. Other women, I showed up at a cafe having no idea what they might be wearing, dress or slacks because the topic never came up.

That doesn't sound like a meeting to see if you could build a D/s relationship.

_____________________________

What a man sees depends on what he looks at and what his previous experience has taught him to see.
Thomas Kuhn (1922-1996)

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

RE: no bra, no panties ! - 3/22/2010 8:16:49 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: lucylucy

I don't understand what the big deal is about being asked to not wear a bra or panties. If you're going on a date with a man, it means you're interested or at least curious. He's interested or at least curious. It's not like a business meeting, it's a date, for crying out loud. What's wrong with being a little sexy? What's "red flaggy" about a dominant man being a little dominant on a first date and a submissive woman being a little submissive on a first date?

With the exception of those who are very well-endowed on top, how could not wearing a bra or panties be dangerous or harmful? By skipping underwear, I don't forfeit my responsibility to say no to anything that is dangerous or illegal. If he takes my not wearing underwear as evidence that I will do anything he wants, well, he has the right to think that, and he may be wrong, and he has the right to be wrong, just as if I show up without underwear and get the creeps when I meet him, I have the right to cut the date short and take my pantyless cunt home and masturbate. No harm, no foul.

Well said.

I believe the assumption is that following an order or request such as no bra and/or panties mean giving up personal control in the situation. In my mind that is not the case.

_____________________________

What a man sees depends on what he looks at and what his previous experience has taught him to see.
Thomas Kuhn (1922-1996)

(in reply to lucylucy)

RE: no bra, no panties ! - 3/22/2010 8:22:41 AM

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The problem with following such an order on a first meet is that it sets up expectations for the man that he's going to get laid no matter what. Which, if you don't do, can easily lead to him being verbally abusive. And who needs that?

A first meet is to establish any basic chemistry, not to have mismatched expectations.

And for me, showing up braless would mean I shouldn't be seen in public.

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(in reply to Sirtomypet)

RE: no bra, no panties ! - 3/22/2010 8:27:32 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

In your case, lucky girl. I would not consider a woman not taking my orders for a first meet any sign at all, not good nor bad. It might mean she is a woman with standards or it might mean she is a bitch. I have met plenty of women who would make amazing slaves for ONE man who would laugh at anyone who they hadn't met giving them orders.

and why is that?

You don't think that being a bitch or having standards are not signs of any kind? I didn't say red flag or distress, I said a sign. It simply means that two people may have different views of either where the relationship has been or where it is going.

Each sub is looking for someone who can fit their need as a Dom. There are another group of women who would be skeptical if there wasn't a request. Doesn't mean that either way is right or wrong. What it does mean is that this type of request (or lack thereof) and the reaction to it would be a consideration.

_____________________________

What a man sees depends on what he looks at and what his previous experience has taught him to see.
Thomas Kuhn (1922-1996)

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

RE: no bra, no panties ! - 3/22/2010 8:33:17 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

The problem with following such an order on a first meet is that it sets up expectations for the man that he's going to get laid no matter what. Which, if you don't do, can easily lead to him being verbally abusive. And who needs that?

A first meet is to establish any basic chemistry, not to have mismatched expectations.

And for me, showing up braless would mean I shouldn't be seen in public.

I disagree. It could very well mean that the Dom is seeing how willing the sub is to stepping outside their comfort zone. I won't deny that there will be those that will have expectations to sex if the sub is complicit, frankly, that could be the same by just showing up in some cases. It does not mean it is the same for each and every Dom or situation. Lumping everyone into one scenario isn't fair either.

_____________________________

What a man sees depends on what he looks at and what his previous experience has taught him to see.
Thomas Kuhn (1922-1996)

(in reply to DesFIP)

RE: no bra, no panties ! - 3/22/2010 8:39:38 AM

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I think it is also that people don't like the idea of submitting to someone they have never met. If I understand some of the other posts, they are saying that they don't submit to just anyone and at that point the dominant they are meeting is "just anyone". I have had that sense about people before and I didn't even ask about any requirements for the first meeting. I also knew prior to meeting my partner that he wasn't "just anyone" already. It mattered to me that his first thoughts upon seeing me were those of being very pleased. I didn't do every little thing he suggested. I did do things that were asked of me or that I knew meant something significant to him.

I think it comes down to how significant the relationship is at the point of the first meeting. Clearly, for some NO relationship is going to be at all significant until they determine if there is a real life connection and possibly some time after that as well. For others, it is just silly and fun things to do (partly the case for me as well). Still others see this as the first chance to serve (not prove themselves necessarily). There are a few who look at this as a test. I don't think the red flag pops up for me on this unless it is both demanded AND disruptive to the primary purpose of the meeting. If a girl is that self conscious about not having underthings on and that they aren't there because he told her not to wear them, etc, then it is kicking on her submissive switch possibly too much to continue to be objective and make sound decisions. If the dominant is sitting there just tickled as hell that he got a girl to show up without underwear, then he may well lack the maturity, seriousness, and responsibility needed for a solid dynamic to develop. Those have more to do with the people than it does with the request itself.

My partner instructed me to do this. He knew I would comply. He seemed to know prior to being in private that I had complied. It may have confirmed some things in his mind, but it wasn't the focus of our interaction either. I complied. I knew if he asked me to do something directly I would do it. I knew partly why I did it, but it didn't change how I interacted with him. That was the key for us. We could have a quiet knowledge without it interfering in the rest of the proceedings. That was something we would look at later. His request was not a red flag and my response didn't detract nor did his. It is something to be done only when it feels right and can be handled maturely.

lovingpet

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If you put your head into more, you'd have to put your back into less. ~Me

10 Fluffy pts.

(in reply to Sirtomypet)

RE: no bra, no panties ! - 3/22/2010 10:24:21 AM

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I've met a number of Dominant men and none of them requested I show up sans bra or panties.

Would I do it? Good question.

I actually had to think about this and the answer is no.

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(in reply to swaybackgirl)

RE: no bra, no panties ! - 3/22/2010 12:14:33 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

I like to be able to get a degree of control, even at the first meeting. Of course, if she complies, she will feel more submissive toward me.

And there is just something hot about a woman with no underwear.

As you allude, there is also the wank factor.

I like to be able to get a degree of control, even before the first meeting. Of course, if he complies, he will feel more submissive toward me. And there is just something hot about a man with a fat wallet.

As you allude, there is also the tribute factor. LOL

(in reply to DarkSteven)

RE: no bra, no panties ! - 3/22/2010 12:41:51 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
The problem with following such an order on a first meet is that it sets up expectations for the man that he's going to get laid no matter what. Which, if you don't do, can easily lead to him being verbally abusive. And who needs that?

A first meet is to establish any basic chemistry, not to have mismatched expectations.

If the woman is definitely not going to have sex on the first date, she can easily say to the man, "I am happy to not wear a bra or panties when we meet, but it's important to me that you respect the fact that I am not going to have sex with you until or unless we establish a relationship."

Showing up without bra and panties doesn't set up an expectation that has already been discussed.

_____________________________

“There are those who give with joy, & that joy is their reward.” Gibran / "Those who are willing to be vulnerable move among mysteries." Roethke / "Let the beauty we love be what we do. There are hundreds of ways to kneel & kiss the ground." Rumi

(in reply to DesFIP)

RE: no bra, no panties ! - 3/22/2010 12:46:52 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: lucylucy

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
The problem with following such an order on a first meet is that it sets up expectations for the man that he's going to get laid no matter what. Which, if you don't do, can easily lead to him being verbally abusive. And who needs that?

A first meet is to establish any basic chemistry, not to have mismatched expectations.

If the woman is definitely not going to have sex on the first date, she can easily say to the man, "I am happy to not wear a bra or panties when we meet, but it's important to me that you respect the fact that I am not going to have sex with you until or unless we establish a relationship."

Showing up without bra and panties doesn't set up an expectation that has already been discussed.

Exactly. What i say is "A hard rule for me is that i don't play casually, sexually or otherwise. i'm protecting myself as property for my future Owner."

If they have issues with that, then i know that they're not the sort of Owner i'm looking for. It's generally pretty simple. i may have to say it more than once, but the point is made.

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(in reply to lucylucy)

RE: no bra, no panties ! - 3/22/2010 9:28:44 PM

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I don't think that someone who is wearing no bra or panties is "asking for it" or is automatically promiscuous. Making that requirement after there is already some connection developed is fine by me. My issue was with it being asked for or demanded on the first date, when we don't even know each other yet. I have no problem with nudity with someone I'm involved with and intimate with, but if someone had a "cock shot" in his profile, I would automatically rule him out of consideration.

So far, the only experiences I've had with the "no panties on the first date" have specifically been negative. A few months after I got involved in the public scene, I was chit-chatting with one of the DM's, who I had talked with a few times before, and mentioned that my birthday was coming up in a few days. He asked if he could take me out for lunch, and I'd had a few other friends I knew through munches/etc. also invite me to do a little something to celebrate my birthday. I hadn't thought of it as a date, but when we talked by e-mail about the logistics, he ordered me to show up without any undies. I told him I wasn't going to meet with him after all, and felt awkward every time I saw him after that. The other 2 people who made that request, the last time I was seeking here, did so before we'd even talked on the phone. So, I tend to think of it as the "call of the HNG" and assume that if he'll ask for no panties on the first date, he's the kind of guy who'll also ask for a blowjob on the first date.

Sure, I might have ruled out someone who would be a good match, though I doubt it. I suspect that my requiring that the person be local, and not in a poly relationship already, probably filtered out far more men who might have otherwise been interesting. I didn't have any shortage of dates, though, and I found my Master pretty quickly.

(in reply to UniqueRaven)

RE: no bra, no panties ! - 3/22/2010 9:38:28 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andalusite
I don't think that someone who is wearing no bra or panties is "asking for it" or is automatically promiscuous. Making that requirement after there is already some connection developed is fine by me. My issue was with it being asked for or demanded on the first date, when we don't even know each other yet.

My thinking is that if you're going on a first date with someone, he's not a complete stranger. You've talked on the phone or emailed enough to discover that a) you want to go to the trouble of meeting in person and b) that he's Dominant and you're submissive. You do know a bit about each other and if you already know a and b, I don't see why the no bra/panties thing would be considered a red flag.

A first date isn't a first contact. I'm assuming there would be a connection of some sort to warrant the date.

_____________________________

“There are those who give with joy, & that joy is their reward.” Gibran / "Those who are willing to be vulnerable move among mysteries." Roethke / "Let the beauty we love be what we do. There are hundreds of ways to kneel & kiss the ground." Rumi

(in reply to Andalusite)

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