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RE: Not a slave...a bratty subbie - 4/4/2006 1:59:00 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ProtagonistLily
We have traditions. They are quickly being lost at an unhearalded rate because what ever anyone does is just fine anymore, but to suggest that we don't have some basic rules of order and traditions upon which they have been born on, is just wrong.

Kassie

Well I'm ok with the "whatever anyone does is just fine" in the sense that- if you want to go into that corner/playstation and have a "brat sub" scene, by all means go for it.

But don't be in a SOCIAL environment and try it- that's rude. I find the vanilla rules of manners and socializing serve just fine in the kinky culture as well.

The problem is that most brats don't keep it private or within a scene- they are just bratty whereever and whenever they get in the mood.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

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(in reply to ProtagonistLily)

RE: Not a slave...a bratty subbie - 4/4/2006 2:01:54 PM

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Clothespingirl is right Lil, you have to allow people to relate to each other as they please. "bratty subs" is just another label for those seeking "subordinate dominants". "bratty slaves" are perfect for "servant masters". It's like in the loan business; "there is a seat for every ass!"

Why do you require "standards"? Personal pleasure is the goal, feeling good about yourself is paramount! Playing this BDSM game is fun, at least until the next fad!

Come on - it's not to late to join in and sing "Kumbaya!”

(in reply to GoddessDustyGold)

RE: Not a slave...a bratty subbie - 4/4/2006 2:04:29 PM

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From: Texas
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quote:

So I'm perusing the threads and someone actually said "I'm not a slave, I'm a bratty sub."

Why is that ok?

I find 'bratty subs' to be rather annoying and unimaginative as a whole. Having to revert to childish behavior to get attention isn't my cup of tea. Children can be amusing in very small doses, but I tire quickly of them and seek out more adult companionship. That said, since I don't have to deal with anyone whom annoys me, it's not an issue. When someone acts like a child, I give them what they want. I think of them as children and treat them as children. Generally, that means I ignore them because I've found that attention just encourages their bad behavior.

Why it's OK, though, is another issue. It's OK because people get to live how they choose. They can slap whatever label they wish on themselves and as long as they don't try to interfere in 'my' life, it's all good. I don't believe how strangers act, even 'bratty subs' reflect upon my own actions. I don't think they are disrespectful because there are enough flavors for everyone and that's just another flavor in the big ice cream vat of BDSM. There are always generalities, the mass amount of posts whining about 'rude emails' by simply 'everyone' is proof enough of that, but the wise and adult among us know that there is seldom 'never' or 'always' in life. I put up with the occasional 'bratty subs' by not putting up with them.. I just use that old block feature that's built into my brain and I'm good to go. :)

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to ProtagonistLily)

RE: Not a slave...a bratty subbie - 4/4/2006 2:04:57 PM

ProtagonistLily

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quote:

Well I'm ok with the "whatever anyone does is just fine" in the sense that- if you want to go into that corner/playstation and have a "brat sub" scene, by all means go for it.

But don't be in a SOCIAL environment and try it- that's rude. I find the vanilla rules of manners and socializing serve just fine in the kinky culture as well.

The problem is that most brats don't keep it private or within a scene- they are just bratty whereever and whenever they get in the mood.

And that was totally and completely my point. Role Play is one thing, and can be fun and lead to interesting places. And I am by NO means suggesting that we can't let the kid out once in a while and have fun.

But like you say, when this behavior is the only thing you get, it becomes a problem in a scene because it's confrontational to some extent. It's a 24/7 overt challenge to the others around them. It's really saying "I"m a sub, but I'm not going to go through all that bullshit of behaving and God forbid not getting noticed. I'm going to be a brat and draw attention to myself and make sure E V E R Y O N E notices me and actually be a nusance to those who are following generally acceptable behavior protocols."

And it's a pain in the ass in my opinion.

Kassie (Who's also known as and answers to Lily by some)

_____________________________

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind"
~Dr. Seuss~

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: Not a slave...a bratty subbie - 4/4/2006 2:05:42 PM

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Oh noooooooooooooooo not the kumbaya thingy...........

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(in reply to Mercnbeth)

RE: Not a slave...a bratty subbie - 4/4/2006 2:10:12 PM

ProtagonistLily

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Joined: 12/27/2004
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quote:

Come on - it's not to late to join in and sing "Kumbaya!”

And here I thought you were gonna say "I met her, and she's certainly no wall flower and could give any saucy sub a run for their money..."

See what I get for thinkin ~grin~

K

_____________________________

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind"
~Dr. Seuss~

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

RE: Not a slave...a bratty subbie - 4/4/2006 2:11:13 PM

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Lily, you are indeed articulate, and have asked a thought provoking question. Still, I have this niggling feeling you're looking for a specific answer...a conclusion you've already decided on and are simply waiting confirmation of it. I say this because there have been several good reasonings/answers to the question, but you've refuted each one with the statement, "That's not the point." People have given their opinions on the question you asked. You'll either have to accept the answers for what they are, or flat out give your own reasonings and take the heat (if any) that stems from it.

I could be wrong, but this is the perception I've gotten from reading this thread.

_____________________________

~valeca, Owned and Operated by Loraith.

(in reply to ProtagonistLily)

RE: Not a slave...a bratty subbie - 4/4/2006 2:13:27 PM

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From: Southeastern Michigan
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ProtagonistLily

And that was totally and completely my point. Role Play is one thing, and can be fun and lead to interesting places. And I am by NO means suggesting that we can't let the kid out once in a while and have fun.

Kassie (Who's also known as and answers to Lily by some)

Well, yes. And I mentioned role-playing a "bratty submisive" in my very post to this thread. I totally adore role-play. I can be an 18th century serving wench, a naughty school girl, or a sniveling, whiny brat depending on whether my owner wants to go along with that type of role-play at an given time.

As for the the others whom you seem to be talking about, again, when they self-identify as "bratty subs" perhaps that is just semantics? I'm still holding out on condemning someone for their choice of wording. If indeed, as some others have suggested that these people (whether male or female) are being "brats" just to test the waters then I have no patience either.

I think I've just strung together enough run-on sentences for now...even by my own standards.

(in reply to ProtagonistLily)

RE: Not a slave...a bratty subbie - 4/4/2006 2:14:13 PM

ProtagonistLily

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Joined: 12/27/2004
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quote:

Lily, you are indeed articulate, and have asked a thought provoking question. Still, I have this niggling feeling you're looking for a specific answer...a conclusion you've already decided on and are simply waiting confirmation of it. I say this because there have been several good reasonings/answers to the question, but you've refuted each one with the statement, "That's not the point." People have given their opinions on the question you asked. You'll either have to accept the answers for what they are, or flat out give your own reasonings and take the heat (if any) that stems from it.

I could be wrong, but this is the perception I've gotten from reading this thread.

Wow, thanks for the analysis, Dr. Freud. I trust you'll bill me...

Kassie

_____________________________

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind"
~Dr. Seuss~

(in reply to valeca)

RE: Not a slave...a bratty subbie - 4/4/2006 2:21:30 PM

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Ahh, there is the Lily I remember from my first weeks on the boards. I kinda missed her.

(in reply to ProtagonistLily)

RE: Not a slave...a bratty subbie - 4/4/2006 2:32:28 PM

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Wow, Lily. You're a biter, aren't you? So much for the social niceties.

For the record, I'll add my thoughts about brattiness. It's irritating and I tend to ignore it. Acknowlegding it gives them what they're looking for--attention. Why is it ok? It isn't...for me.

Not my life, not my submissive, none of my concern/business.

That's about as close to an answer as I can come.

_____________________________

~valeca, Owned and Operated by Loraith.

(in reply to ProtagonistLily)

RE: Not a slave...a bratty subbie - 4/4/2006 2:32:51 PM

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One Bratty sub in the hand is worth two Bitchy subs in the bushes....if you want Fastlane's opinion?

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Just because it hurts, doesn't necessarily make it a bad thing.

(in reply to Sensualips)

RE: Not a slave...a bratty subbie - 4/4/2006 2:40:47 PM

Posts: 510
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From: Southeastern Michigan
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ProtagonistLily

Wow, thanks for the analysis, Dr. Freud. I trust you'll bill me...

Kassie

Wow. Seems to me you're getting a bit agitated because not everyone automatically agreed that "brat" has the same meaning you ascribe to it. As far as Freud, goes, you better hope he doesn't send you a bill from beyond the grave. Freud considered sado-masochism to be a non-curable mental disease.

He also considered the roots of sado-mashochism to have developed in childhood in regards to the Oedipal complex. But then nearly everyone knows by now that Freud wasn't exactly the most stable of people himself.

(in reply to ProtagonistLily)

RE: Not a slave...a bratty subbie - 4/4/2006 2:42:05 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ProtagonistLily

quote:

Come on - it's not to late to join in and sing "Kumbaya!”

And here I thought you were gonna say "I met her, and she's certainly no wall flower and could give any saucy sub a run for their money..."

See what I get for thinkin ~grin~

K

My dear friend, see how manipulating I can be? I wanted to hear from you, and an instant after my post, you IM. Does that make me a "bratty Dom"? Always good to hear from you, my CM 'convention' organizer/partner. There is NO doubt after that enjoyable experience that you can out "saucy" anyone!

beth and I are looking forward to seeing you again soon, and meeting your Master. My guess is that he's as likely to sing "Kumbaya!" as me.

Hope you get over the flu soon!

(in reply to ProtagonistLily)

RE: Not a slave...a bratty subbie - 4/4/2006 2:45:31 PM

KittenWithaTwist

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Joined: 8/3/2005
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quote:

While you can be what ever you want, for those of us who actually have taken BDSM from the fantasy 'what if' stage of exisiting solely on message boards to the reality phase of actually practicing in some variant of what's known as BDSM, the non-dominant women who think it's fun to brat it up are, in my opinion, not only a pain in the ass, but particularly disrespectful of the rest of us who are putting forth an effort to behave.

If you're beyond the "fantasy what if stage of existing solely on message boards", then why does it matter to you that there are brat subs out there? Obviously you have no need to interact with them on a real time basis. If you do so on a message board, well, it's only a message board.

Why is it okay to be a brat? It's okay because the people who choose to do so are choosing to do so. I choose to be a sadomasochist switch. That definitely bothers some people, I'm sure. But it happens, and life goes on. Why is it okay for some people to wear uniforms daily and keep their slaves in the basement, as one poly group did in my area. Because they choose to do so. I don't agree with it. I think it's ridiculous and weird. But they do it anyway.

There are brat subs and doormat subs and slave subs and service subs and 24/7 subs and only on weekend subs and when-my-kids-are-with-their-dad subs. So what? It won't cheapen or lessen your particular variety of submission just because you don't happen to like or agree with it.

_____________________________

"Time travel: It's a cornocopia of disturbing concepts." ~Ron Stoppable

(in reply to ProtagonistLily)

RE: Not a slave...a bratty subbie - 4/4/2006 2:45:50 PM

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From: Southeastern Michigan
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quote:

ORIGINAL: fastlane

One Bratty sub in the hand is worth two Bitchy subs in the bushes....if you want Fastlane's opinion?

LOL. Thank you! That just made me smile for the first time today.

(in reply to fastlane)

RE: Not a slave...a bratty subbie - 4/4/2006 2:48:19 PM

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quote:

There may also be a taste of the "force me" in brats. They are oh so proud and oh so strong until the ONE comes to them and somehow transforms them into a meek and obedient girl- it is only HIS true power and honor which can tame the wild beast. It's a form of "do me" and definitely another type that can't reconcile being submissive AND being a full person.

I would never say I personally am a "brat" (especially not in public) though I can relate to what your saying here. I like a strong man who can control me and in his verbal/physical power over me I am able to submit "easier". I'm not a "brat" on a regular basis public/ private though at times I do push the limit just for the attention, whether consciously or unconsciously and sometimes I am just playing around. I hope to one day be able to submit w/ 100% grace, 100% of the time and never behave badly.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: Not a slave...a bratty subbie - 4/4/2006 2:48:34 PM

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Our bodies grow up and we are forced to look like adults, doesnt mean our emotional and mental make-up has matured or become adult. I guess to me an adult having to act like a brat would mean the person cant find any other way of feeling strong than acting out in that way, something inside their make-up cant resolve the fact that surrender is actually a very beautiful and very strong thing to do, they are still in the the child phase of "make me do it" to gain a sense of personal maturity, or simply they are still in the phase of the naughty child who has to be on a leash with its parent when its in social situations. Another reason I could think of that some adults act like brats is perhaps they had a very strict upbringing and that has somehow made them feel they missed out on their childhood and are attempting to be a child again for awhile, form of child-play perhaps?

Outside of BDSM relationships, just looking at the adult world in general, I think there are a whole bunch of people in big peoples bodies who have the emotional and mental makeup of 5 year olds. All one has to do is go into parliament house and watch the goings on in there, adults calling people names, fighting, screaming when they dont think they are being heard, getting upset cuz someone disagrees with them, using immature tactics to get points across, basically acting like kids and these are the people running our countries.

Topic Question: Why is this ok? Well..........I dont know if it is ok..well its not ok within my relationships, for someone else it might be perfectly ok....but we just gotta accept the fact people do the best they can with what they've got, emotionally and mentally...so other peoples behavior doesnt get our knickers in a knot.

When I see adults acting like kids I often think of a line from the old Eagles song "Get over it"..the line is "Id like to find your inner child and kick it in the ass."

_____________________________

Freedom in Bondage

Different Strokes for Different Folks

"I'll always have a *soft spot* for Sadists"

(in reply to fastlane)

RE: Not a slave...a bratty subbie - 4/4/2006 2:50:13 PM

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If the people involved in the relationship are fine with the "brat" then by all means its ok. When it spills over onto others in a public situation it is just rude, of course I have never done well with brats. The last time somebody played the brat card with me they wound up locked in the closet with a bottle of water and a bucket to pee in. The next day when they got out they had decided I was more than they had bargained for, lol.

K

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

RE: Not a slave...a bratty subbie - 4/4/2006 2:54:32 PM

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From: Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PlayfulOne

The last time somebody played the brat card with me they wound up locked in the closet with a bottle of water and a bucket to pee in. The next day when they got out they had decided I was more than they had bargained for, lol.

K

Lordy, lordy. I almost pee'd my pants. Now that is priceless. ::laughs::

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to PlayfulOne)

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