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A Question to Ponder - 4/5/2006 7:40:58 AM

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Of course switches exist. This is a given in BD/SM.

The question is:

Are you a switch because it is what someone else described you as being and since you fit the generally accepted definition, you label yourself as a switch?

Or are you a switch because you haven't the drive/desire/[fill in the blank] to be either submissive or dominant?

I could, in theory, call myself a switch, but I have only found one person worth bending my knee to, proverbially speaking. In every other aspect of my BD/SM life, I am undoubtedly Dominant. Since I am not looking for someone to "bend my knee" to, I don't consider myself a switch, though. But since I have been collared in the past, I do have a submissive aspect to my persona.

Not asking this to raise hackles or to instigate any kind of a ruckus. I think it's an honest question worth asking. I apologize for anything that may or may not find themselves offended. Just remember.

You cannot take offense if you do not desire to be offended.

RE: A Question to Ponder - 4/5/2006 7:47:08 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dustyn
Are you a switch because it is what someone else described you as being and since you fit the generally accepted definition, you label yourself as a switch?

I call myself a switch because it's easier than actually explaining all my relationship dynamics.

quote:

Or are you a switch because you haven't the drive/desire/[fill in the blank] to be either submissive or dominant?

Nope, in fact I've usually found the opposite is true.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Dustyn)

RE: A Question to Ponder - 4/5/2006 7:57:21 AM

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So you are saying that you have too much desire for both to be either one or the other?

Not for a bad pun, but is either side of that desire more dominant in your life than the other?

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: A Question to Ponder - 4/5/2006 7:59:30 AM

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I know what we need. New terms and definitions.

"Switch" is much too broad a concept to define with a single word.

Are you either sumissively dominant or dominantly submissive?

The mind is a fun thing to poke around in at times, and I get tired of poking around in my mind, so I poke around in others' minds.

(in reply to Dustyn)

RE: A Question to Ponder - 4/5/2006 9:32:33 AM

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I label myself a switch because it seems easier for people to quickly grasp the general idea. I also label myself a switch because I am "new" and still struggling with my own identity. Sometimes I feel very submissive, usually more dominant, and other times I think I am just plain old kinky and nasty.

(in reply to Dustyn)

RE: A Question to Ponder - 4/5/2006 10:07:25 AM

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From the flip side: I DON'T label myself as a switch, mainly because of the stigma. Instead, I work, or am trying to, to help people see that what we DO does not define who we ARE. I am a Master, yet, I have some masochistic tendencies in spirituality and sex. I have also served an Ms couple that I highly respect when they were in need of sub/slave service for an important event. The observations of how people treated me that weekend where interesting. Especially since I was obviously in a submissive role, yet was introduced as Master Fire. Filling the four areas I find important in an Ms relationship (SM, service, spirituality and sex) from both sides doesn't make me any less a Master.

Fire

_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
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(in reply to Dustyn)

RE: A Question to Ponder - 4/5/2006 10:48:38 AM

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I would have to say i am a switch because it is the term others have given to me. Generally speaking i dont like defintions because all they tend to do is limit someones perception of me. I have a strong, intense, all consuming desire to be submissive....but (there is always a but) i can only be this way to the right person. Someone whose will and desire are stronger than my own. Without this person i have a tendency to be more dominate because thats how i function on a day to day basis.
Submissively dominate -or- dominately submissive
That does give a bit of a twist to defintions. I am most likely dominately submissive....currently in training so i am feeling free of the dominate inside myself which is refreshing.

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)

RE: A Question to Ponder - 4/5/2006 11:56:21 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Or are you a switch because you haven't the drive/desire/[fill in the blank] to be either submissive or dominant?

Nope, in fact I've usually found the opposite is true.

So you are saying that a switch generally has too much of an impulse to be both submissive and dominant? It's how it sounds, and just wanting some clarification

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: A Question to Ponder - 4/5/2006 11:57:54 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dustyn
So you are saying that a switch generally has too much of an impulse to be both submissive and dominant? It's how it sounds, and just wanting some clarification

Not that they have too much- but that its a very strong and real part of who they are.

Being a switch isn't easy in the scene- we get insulted, marginalized, forgotten, you name it. You wouldn't CHOOSE to go that path unless it was a pretty strong part of yourself.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Dustyn)

RE: A Question to Ponder - 4/5/2006 12:15:48 PM

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Submission and Domination requires too much of a person to readily just flip back and forth between the two depending on your mental/emotional state at that time. There should be an emotional involvement, to one extent or another, with the person that you are scene'ing with, regardless of who plays which role. It is better to live one complete life than to incomplete ones. Neither side will be fully and completely embraced, simply because the brain, for whatever motivations lie in it, will not allow either full submission or full dominance with another person.

Every switch I know, in all honesty, has never felt completely comfortable with themselves in terms of the lifestyle.

Being a dominant with both self destructive and masochistic tendencies at rare times, does this infer that I am a switch instead of a dominant? No, because I do not think of myself in that way.

In a tug-o-war, there are two teams with a flag tied at either end. One end in this image is dominance, the other submission. Can you run from side to side without one end of the rope falling to the ground? The rope, by the way, is your entire existence, flesh, bone, and soul. It creates too much of a rift inside yourself to attempt to feast on both sides of the cake at will.

In some ways, being a switch could infer merely being hedonistic, wanting to enjoy both ends of the whip, so to speak.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: A Question to Ponder - 4/5/2006 12:46:52 PM

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I don't think you have been reading the Posts. Yes. We switch because that is who We are. It is NOT a tug of war. There are many subs that I absolutely enjoy doing fun and interesting things to and they say I am giving them pleasure so I am Dominating and Loving every second of it.

There is ONE and perhaps others "i" haven't met yet that i absolutely relate to as HER submissive. When we get together She absolutely owns me 24/7 collared, chained to the bed. She does things to me i absolutely love and adore and yes NEED.

After seeing Her I again Dominate and appreciate the submissives and show them all I have learned as "i".

There is no inner struggle. there is peace and happiness I am fulfilled.

_____________________________

Kink Forever
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Docents_of_Museum/

(in reply to Dustyn)

RE: A Question to Ponder - 4/5/2006 12:54:34 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dustyn
Submission and Domination requires too much of a person to readily just flip back and forth between the two depending on your mental/emotional state at that time.

LOL I'll have to tell my partners that next time we're at a party and I switch between them- "Sorry guys, I guess this means we don't have a real emotional involvement with eachother, all those I love you's and sacrifices and years together don't mean anything"

quote:

Neither side will be fully and completely embraced, simply because the brain, for whatever motivations lie in it, will not allow either full submission or full dominance with another person.

Every switch I know, in all honesty, has never felt completely comfortable with themselves in terms of the lifestyle.

Great, not only do I have to tell my partners that we aren't emotionally involved with eachother, but that none of us are really fulfilled and comfortable with ourselves!

Hello, my name is Liz, nice to meet you. I've got three partners I'd be happy to introduce you to who would all say the opposite.

quote:

. Can you run from side to side without one end of the rope falling to the ground? The rope, by the way, is your entire existence, flesh, bone, and soul. It creates too much of a rift inside yourself to attempt to feast on both sides of the cake at will.

For me that's not at all how I experience switching. For me it's an energy flowing. Perhaps it's because I'm poly, but I can act within several energy levels simultaneously- as both slave to master and girlfriend to another, sub to one and dom to another, etc.

quote:

In some ways, being a switch could infer merely being hedonistic, wanting to enjoy both ends of the whip, so to speak.

It's no more or less hedonistic than anyone wanting to be who they are.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Dustyn)

RE: A Question to Ponder - 4/5/2006 1:39:19 PM

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Although I am MOSTLY submissive, I call myself a switch because there is a Dom side there - mostly dormant.

More over, the world is not black and white, but shades of grey. Labels are a needed thing for ease of communication, but we are transcenent of any label we wear. Yet, far too often people idealize a person based on the label they choose. They put them on a kind of pedastle of what they EXPECT them to be and act like. They may act like that 95% of the time ... but when you see a person's basic human dignity and uniqueness, that 5% that is NOT what your expect becomes endearing, rather than annoying.

fergus

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: A Question to Ponder - 4/5/2006 1:48:50 PM

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I am attempting to view the topic as dispassionately as possible, Lucky. Passion rules reason very frequently, and honesty is nothing more than dispassionate observation, be it of another person or yourself.

All I am trying to do is gain a deeper understanding of what being a switch is by asking harder, ruder questions than the stereotypical "Why switch?" or "Can't you make up your mind?" It's obvious that those questions not only gain a high degree of distain from those it is posed to, it also tends to simply be overlooked. I am wanting a stronger grasp on what defines a switch and what influences them to enjoy being both submissive and dominant, as oppsed to being just one or the other.

I am not trying to be offensive or disparaging. I certainly wouldn't ask a vegetarian what prime rib tastes like. I don't want just a surface glance. For lack of a better way to put it, I want to see what's at the bottom of that pool.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: A Question to Ponder - 4/5/2006 1:54:42 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dustyn
I am not trying to be offensive or disparaging. I certainly wouldn't ask a vegetarian what prime rib tastes like. I don't want just a surface glance. For lack of a better way to put it, I want to see what's at the bottom of that pool.

Your last post had nothing to do about asking deeper questions. It was nothing but a post full of myths and misconceptions, gross and false overgeneralizations.

Now, if you had made that post starting with "I've heard some people say?" and ended it with "What do you guys think about this?" I'd have responded the same way, but I wouldn't have been responding to YOU, the one with those views.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Dustyn)

RE: A Question to Ponder - 4/5/2006 2:08:53 PM

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I don't relate myths and rumors. I speak purely from personal experience. To do otherwise would be a complete waste of my time, in terms of writing, and yours, in terms of reading.

I see, however, that you are more willing to engage in passive aggressiveness and mocking than you are in answering questions the way they are posed. What I wrote was nothing more than rational discourse. I was given mockery, sarcasm and dismissment of my thoughts.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: A Question to Ponder - 4/5/2006 3:17:21 PM

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quote:

I call myself a switch because it's easier than actually explaining all my relationship dynamics.

Ditto that, because as soon as you start trying to explain to someone who doesn't want to accept it that you're a dominant slave with masochistic leanings who hasn't got a submissive bone in her body, it invariably ends up the same way - with the declaration that you're a clueless wannabe. It's simply not worth going to all that trouble.

_____________________________

Denise

Give a slave what he truly needs, and he will do what you want.

"There's never a hero in a battle of ego." - Big & Rich

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: A Question to Ponder - 4/5/2006 3:28:43 PM

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quote:

Submission and Domination requires too much of a person to readily just flip back and forth between the two depending on your mental/emotional state at that time. There should be an emotional involvement, to one extent or another, with the person that you are scene'ing with, regardless of who plays which role.

I am not sure why you would assume there is not emotional involvement. There is emotional involvement in relationships, from vanilla to bisexual to s/D. Relationships do not require less of a person because they are not strictly a specific orientation.

quote:

It is better to live one complete life than to incomplete ones.

I have no idea why a personality trait/orientation would translate into an incomplete life.

quote:

Neither side will be fully and completely embraced, simply because the brain, for whatever motivations lie in it, will not allow either full submission or full dominance with another person.

This sounds like you believe switches are impaired in some way.

quote:

Every switch I know, in all honesty, has never felt completely comfortable with themselves in terms of the lifestyle.

I know some switches that feel uncomfortable. Often it is because of the attitudes similar to the ones you express here -- they feel defensive or unwanted or misunderstood. Other times they are struggling with identity, the dominant and submissive people do as well. I know some that are completely at peace and secure with themselves. I would not make assumptions about a large and multi-dimensional category of people based on the ones I happen to have had discussions with.

quote:

In a tug-o-war, there are two teams with a flag tied at either end. One end in this image is dominance, the other submission. Can you run from side to side without one end of the rope falling to the ground? The rope, by the way, is your entire existence, flesh, bone, and soul. It creates too much of a rift inside yourself to attempt to feast on both sides of the cake at will.

Perhaps it creates too much of a rift for you, but others are very comfortable. For some the idea of being stuck at one end is what eats at their flesh, bone, soul and all that jazz. Go back to the old bisexual comparison.

It doesn't seem like you want to know what defines a switch or are asking deep, provacative questions. It seems like you want to point out ways they are incomplete or less in touch with themselves or destined to be unfulfilled.

I am not offended. I just feel your comments do not reflect this aspect of the lifestyle as I have personally experienced it or the way those close to me have described it.

(in reply to Dustyn)

RE: A Question to Ponder - 4/5/2006 3:36:40 PM

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Or are you a switch because you haven't the drive/desire/[fill in the blank] to be either submissive or dominant?

    I reject the premise here.  I'm not a switch because I'm lacking anything. Regardless of your intent, my hackles are raised. Just because someone chooses to identify as a Dom or Sub does not bestow some sort of superiority upon them.

    You say you used to be submissive but now you are dominant. I'd say you are the confused one. Why is it perfectly acceptable to change sides but not to honestly say that both exist within you?

   A Heretic as usual
   Rich

(in reply to Dustyn)

RE: A Question to Ponder - 4/5/2006 4:31:31 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dustyn

Of course switches exist. This is a given in BD/SM.

The question is:

Are you a switch because it is what someone else described you as being and since you fit the generally accepted definition, you label yourself as a switch?

Umm.. I switch.. therefore I am. Or was it I am.. therefore I switch? I recently labeled myself a switch.. because I recently opened my eyes and accepted a part of me that I denied.

Its called loving yourself for ALL of who you are.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dustyn
Or are you a switch because you haven't the drive/desire/[fill in the blank] to be either submissive or dominant?

Umm no. I am what and who I am. People either bow to me, or I bow to them (or they go on their merry little way). You seem to be having trouble accepting what a switch is, and trying to put us in a box. You might as well stop. We aren't box-able.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dustyn
I could, in theory, call myself a switch, but I have only found one person worth bending my knee to, proverbially speaking. In every other aspect of my BD/SM life, I am undoubtedly Dominant. Since I am not looking for someone to "bend my knee" to, I don't consider myself a switch, though. But since I have been collared in the past, I do have a submissive aspect to my persona.

Just because you haven't found someone to kneel to.. doesn't mean you're not a switch.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dustyn
Not asking this to raise hackles or to instigate any kind of a ruckus. I think it's an honest question worth asking. I apologize for anything that may or may not find themselves offended. Just remember.

You cannot take offense if you do not desire to be offended.

Yeah I wasn't offended until you condescended to "remind" me that if I took offense it was because I desired to be offended.. WTF is that supposed to mean anyway?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dustyn
So you are saying that you have too much desire for both to be either one or the other?

In some cases yes. In some cases.. the chips just fall that way.. 90% of the time people submit to me. There are a few that motivated me to submit to them, but those were rare and extraordinary people.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dustyn
Are you either sumissively dominant or dominantly submissive?

Neither. I'm either Lovingly Dominant.. or lovingly submissive... or playfully both.

(in reply to Dustyn)

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