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RE: Your PERFECT sub - 4/7/2006 9:30:01 AM

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From: Mid-Atlantic area
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressLorelei

I have known submissives who would not only clean My house willingly and be honored, but would do so with their tongues if I required it. For some submissives, being allowed to do whatever would please their Dominant Females is all the submissive satisfaction they need.

Yes, but how long were you able to stay in a sustained relationship with such a submissive? Subs willing to come in and do whatever for 5-10 times who then bolt or disappear cannot in any way be classified as your "fantasy sub" or "ideal submissive." The question is, where is the sub who wants to be an unpaid butler, masseur, and social escort on a FT, LT basis?

You say, "For some submissives, being allowed to do whatever would please their Dominant Females is all the submissive satisfaction they need."

And I say, you are living in a DREAM WORLD if you think this is all they need. At best, this sounds like they are settling for what they can get, and they would drop you like a HOT POTATO for another DOMME who actually showed a legitimate and kinky interest in them.

Oh Cloudboy stop it. Are you in a relationship? Have you ever served a truly dominant woman long term? I bet you haven't. The world she describes my not be reality for YOU but I assure you it is for many dominant woman & submissive men. This I assure you. I've been in the liftesyle WAY over 15 years and actually living the lifestyle 24/7 not a weekend warrior. I know plenty of good submissives who serve this way and LIVE for it.

_____________________________

(in reply to cloudboy)

RE: Your PERFECT sub - 4/7/2006 9:31:50 AM

Posts: 1087
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Mid-Atlantic area
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TeeGO

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

*SNIP* (not really important to my point.)

Cloudboy, let me be clear. I appreciate your postings, your intellect, your thoughts. I'm not dissing you at all here. But in this thread your taking the subject way off track. The question was to a Domme what their "perfect sub" is. Nothing whatsoever was mentioned about "how they would treat said sub." I would imagine that the good Domme's of this thread would treat said sub in a most spectacularly wonderful way. Let's just take that as a fact and allow this thread to proceed as it was intended.

TeeGo is now our bouncer! lol- he even looks like one!

_____________________________

(in reply to TeeGO)

RE: Your PERFECT sub - 4/7/2006 10:18:23 AM

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Joined: 12/14/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DiannaVesta

Oh Cloudboy stop it. Are you in a relationship? Have you ever served a truly dominant woman long term? I bet you haven't. The world she describes my not be reality for YOU but I assure you it is for many dominant woman & submissive men. This I assure you. I've been in the liftesyle WAY over 15 years and actually living the lifestyle 24/7 not a weekend warrior. I know plenty of good submissives who serve this way and LIVE for it.

First of all, this is not about me, as much as some are trying to make it so.

A common criticism of male subs is male-sub-projection-fantasy figures --- aka --- ideas of dominant women that do not comport with reality. AAkasah, DustyGold, and MH among others have often lead this charge and rightfully and deservedly so. Their argument is FEMDOMs don't enter into relationships to satisfy male, do-me submissives b/c the FEMDOMs get nothing out of such a relationship.

All I have done here is reconfigure the question and aimed it at femdoms.

I will stand by my thesis that the only "ideal" male subs who wish to work as non sexed, non kinked, and non paid butler's and masseurs are the male subs in your head or the male subs who at best, serve you on a short term basis hoping to trojan horse their way into being more than an unpaid service sub.

Male subs want/need intimacy and emotional involvement going BOTH ways. A male sub who receives nothing from a domme other than "the priviledge to serve" is going to lose interest in his domme rapidly, if he has any such interest at all in the first place.

I begrudge no FEMDOM her fantasy sub. I just don't want any of you unrealistically waiting for such a sub to materialize and enter into a LT relationship with you.

MH described her ideal male-sub --- and he's flesh and blood. And, let me tell you, he's no glorified unpaid, non sexed, non kinked butler. If this were what she was searching for, subtofemdoms would not be it, and she'd still be scouring the globe looking for what doesn't exist.

(in reply to DiannaVesta)

RE: Your PERFECT sub - 4/7/2006 10:57:32 AM

Posts: 800
Joined: 11/25/2005
From: N. Carolina
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Where in all of any of these forums did you read that I was not looking for intimacy or emotional involvement with my slave? Indeed, that is the foundation on which our relationship must be built. Just because I don't want to tie him up or beat him or dress him in panties or have hot monkey sex with My slave, you assume that I am looking for no-strings housework? you assume that I offer My slave absolutely nothing in return? You are indeed putting your own interpretation on what you read, if you got that from any posts of mine!

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
Male subs want/need intimacy and emotional involvement going BOTH ways. A male sub who receives nothing from a domme other than "the priviledge to serve" is going to lose interest in his domme rapidly, if he has any such interest at all in the first place.

_____________________________

---
Lady Morgynn
www.farhorizons.net/LadyMorgynn

(in reply to cloudboy)

RE: Your PERFECT sub - 4/7/2006 11:36:50 AM

GoddessDustyGold

Posts: 2822
Joined: 4/11/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline

I agree. cloudboy, it seems that if we are not including in our description of a "perfect day" a time to drag out the toy bag and tell you in graphic detail about the planned playtime, you will never get any. I consider a massage to be very intimate. I consider cuddling up on the couch in front of a roaring fire and watching a movie to be very intimate. You immediately jump to conclusions, It isn't all about the play, every day. Maybe we want to go to bed and have some plain old vanilla sex on that perfect day. It doesn't mean a scene (the one you want to hear about) can't be part of a perfect day. It just means that the scene is not necessarily the first thing that jumps to our mind. Apparently it is the first thing for you.
I notice we refer to the real time day to day things that would make the day pefect. I also notice you refer to the sexual/kinky things that would make your day perfect.
Now who is insisting on the fantasy here? Doesn't sound like the Ladies to Me.

_____________________________

Dusty
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
B Franklin
Don't blame Me ~ I didn't vote for either of them
The Hidden Kingdom

(in reply to LadyMorgynn)

RE: Your PERFECT sub - 4/7/2006 1:01:56 PM

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Joined: 4/4/2006
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Thanks for this thread! It is so helpfull for me, because I am new to being Dom so you are giving me all kinds of great ideas, and helping me see who my perfect sub would be. Also showing me more of what my Dom would desire of me.

-M

(in reply to DiannaVesta)

RE: Your PERFECT sub - 4/7/2006 3:40:36 PM

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Joined: 12/14/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold

I agree. cloudboy, it seems that if we are not including in our description of a "perfect day" a time to drag out the toy bag and tell you in graphic detail about the planned playtime, you will never get any. I consider a massage to be very intimate. I consider cuddling up on the couch in front of a roaring fire and watching a movie to be very intimate. You immediately jump to conclusions, It isn't all about the play, every day. Maybe we want to go to bed and have some plain old vanilla sex on that perfect day. It doesn't mean a scene (the one you want to hear about) can't be part of a perfect day. It just means that the scene is not necessarily the first thing that jumps to our mind. Apparently it is the first thing for you.
I notice we refer to the real time day to day things that would make the day pefect. I also notice you refer to the sexual/kinky things that would make your day perfect.
Now who is insisting on the fantasy here? Doesn't sound like the Ladies to Me.

I really have no idea what you are talking about here, because your post doesn't meaningfully address one thing I've said.

The question is NOT about what FEMDOMS are into, or wish for, or want, and its not about what I want either--- the question is whether a particular kind of male-sub (previously described) actually exists in real life or not. If he does not exist, then it would seem ill advised for FEMDOMs to search and wait for him.

(in reply to GoddessDustyGold)

RE: Your PERFECT sub - 4/7/2006 4:16:29 PM

Posts: 800
Joined: 11/25/2005
From: N. Carolina
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AHAH!!! I understand now! Some of us don't want what you are looking for, so you are trying to persuade us to compromise our selves and our principals, to accommodate what you want us to be!

Yep, it all makes sense.

And for someone who is insistent on having his question answered, you've sure been ignoring mine that I've posed here for you a couple of times at least: why are you so insistent that people who live differently from what you want, are wrong (or apparently somehow delusional)?

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
The question is NOT about what FEMDOMS are into, or wish for, or want, and its not about what I want either--- the question is whether a particular kind of male-sub (previously described) actually exists in real life or not. If he does not exist, then it would seem ill advised for FEMDOMs to search and wait for him.

_____________________________

---
Lady Morgynn
www.farhorizons.net/LadyMorgynn

(in reply to cloudboy)

RE: Your PERFECT sub - 4/7/2006 4:47:24 PM

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Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DiannaVesta
I've been in the liftesyle WAY over 15 years and actually living the lifestyle 24/7 not a weekend warrior. I know plenty of good submissives who serve this way and LIVE for it.

yeh unless i miss my guess since the mid to late seventies ;)

_____________________________

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(in reply to DiannaVesta)

RE: Your PERFECT sub - 4/7/2006 6:52:49 PM

Posts: 1710
Joined: 12/3/2005
From: Stockton, California
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DiannaVesta

Thank you MistressLorelei! I know this to be true. A woman must feel comfortable with her power to command this type of attention. That type of woman, in itself is what motivates him into action. That IS his reward.

Now say YES MAAM LittleSarbonn because I KNOW you agree with that!

A "Yes Maam" is quite easy here for me because you definitely understand my motivations and feelings on the subject and have for many years, I might add.

For the most part, I've been generally staying out of this thread because it was all about what a dominant seeks in a perfect sub, and I didn't feel I really had all that much to add. But I do find it important to point out to the guy complaining that such argumentation is a lot like religious debate. Just because he has never experienced an extreme of this lifestyle or know those that live it does not mean that such people do not exist. I've had the pleasure of being close to many submissives in my time (both males and females), and the desire to serve can transcend levels that he may not even imagine are possible. We used to have an organization called The Submissive Treehouse that used to discuss the levels of submission and how different people seek different things. A few of us were abnormal in our desires, living almost to the very edge of serving with our basic need: To serve a woman's personal needs and desires as the main emotion of pleasure itself.

It is very hard to describe this pleasure and emotion to someone who needs a more tactile response to his or her desire to submit, and quite often we're questioned to the point where the other person just can't understand.

There is also another level of submission that many who say the same things I tend to say exist. It is a group of people who have never served to the edge of being a dominant's every desire, but think they want that. Then they achieve it and discover that they are much like the complainer in this thread purports to be. I see that happen a lot, and it brings about quite a bit of frustration to dominants who think they have found the perfect sub, only to realize he or she wasn't lying to her, but to himself instead, believing he was capable of something until he had to actually live up to it.

It's strange, but for those that desire to be that type of submissive, one never knows whether or not he or she is really comfortable with that life until one lives it. Fortunately for me, I have achieved it in the past, and I realized that it is what makes me tick. Others I have known did not fair so well. Some left the community completely, realizing that they did not want to exist in an environment where they could not be what they thought they could be only a short time before.

I apologize for taking up so much space to say this, but I felt it necessary as it is one of the few subjects on submission to which I have explored most of my life, and it bothers me to constantly hear someone talk about it as if he understands it when what he understands is that he wouldn't be comfortable with it.

(in reply to DiannaVesta)

RE: Your PERFECT sub - 4/8/2006 11:21:21 AM

Posts: 1087
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Mid-Atlantic area
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quote:

ORIGINAL: youQadesh

Thanks for this thread! It is so helpfull for me, because I am new to being Dom so you are giving me all kinds of great ideas, and helping me see who my perfect sub would be. Also showing me more of what my Dom would desire of me.

-M

You are very welcome & please feel free to email me with questions or support any time.

_____________________________

(in reply to youQadesh)

RE: Your PERFECT sub - 4/8/2006 11:34:29 AM

Posts: 1087
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Mid-Atlantic area
Status: offline

Littlesarbonn,

Thank you!

_____________________________

(in reply to DiannaVesta)

RE: Your PERFECT sub - 4/8/2006 12:59:43 PM

Posts: 142
Joined: 3/26/2006
From: Stockholm, Sweden
Status: offline

My perfect sub?
Hmmmm...

It would be someone who first and foremost accepts that I just an ordinary human being - neither stronger, nor weaker than anyone else.
Someone who shares my childish love for history and old buildings.
Someone who likes to just sit together and read just as much as playing kinky games.
Someone who is able to see my weaknesses, but who doesn't love me any less - or more - for them.
Someone who likes to eat - cause I like to cook...

(in reply to DiannaVesta)

RE: Your PERFECT sub - 4/8/2006 1:53:07 PM

Posts: 1087
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Mid-Atlantic area
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: DiannaVesta
I've been in the liftesyle WAY over 15 years and actually living the lifestyle 24/7 not a weekend warrior. I know plenty of good submissives who serve this way and LIVE for it.

yeh unless i miss my guess since the mid to late seventies ;)

You have no idea what you're talking about. You consistently prove to be an idiot. Rant on because this time I'll block you. Hopefully some of the other women here will do the same & stop giving you attention you so desperately seek. Now go away.

_____________________________

(in reply to Real0ne)

RE: Your PERFECT sub - 4/8/2006 1:56:01 PM

Posts: 1087
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Mid-Atlantic area
Status: offline

FYI it was the LATE 80's I seriously began exploring the scene.

_____________________________

(in reply to DiannaVesta)

RE: Your PERFECT sub - 4/8/2006 3:29:09 PM

MistressLorelei

Posts: 997
Joined: 11/7/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DiannaVesta

Thank you MistressLorelei! I know this to be true. A woman must feel comfortable with her power to command this type of attention. That type of woman, in itself is what motivates him into action. That IS his reward.

I have enjoyed this thread, and while we have painted our pictures of our perfect subs, two submissives have stepped in and helped illustrate what kind of submissive many of us don't want. Negativity for the sake of negativity rates low with Me anyway,

(in reply to DiannaVesta)

RE: Your PERFECT sub - 4/8/2006 4:53:41 PM

mons

Posts: 2400
Joined: 11/16/2005
Status: offline

greetings too all

Now that is a statement and a half! Now first I would not
want a perfect sub! But someone who is trainable and human
with human mistakes and wants. Now that said this is my not perfect, but one
who is has so much more to gave then all of the talents some of the
others may have? He needs to be funny with a good sense of humor
Oh how I do love a smart sub! Someone who can keep up with me. I love
knowledge, history art, anything to do with ancient history. Modern things
too, I am an artist I love to paint and draw. He should at least
like art. Not many know the Seven ancient wonders of the world?
If he knows that, a foot is in the door lol!
The sexual part is something that I will train him, maybe he thinks what
his former mistress enjoy would make me happy not so! So i will train
him to do what I like and need. He should at least know how to
wash dishes lol. Not all subs know how to cook so that is something
he can learn! After all of that he must and this is important as the air i breathe
be honest, truthful and and honorable man! With all of the thinks he may
bring to the table if he is not honest and truthful I would not take him at all.
A liar is not ever to be trusted in anyway! So this is what I think a good sub is!

wishing you all well

mons

(in reply to DiannaVesta)

RE: Your PERFECT sub - 4/9/2006 7:25:35 AM

Posts: 1881
Joined: 1/1/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DiannaVesta

You paint the perfect picture for the sub of your dreams. Who is he/she? Whatever you want. Details please!

The perfect sub doesn't exist, and that's reason enough to have more than one. If I want it I'll get it and if I won't get it from this one then I'll get it from that one. I don't worry over it, in fact I've known submissives to reexamine what they were willing to do when they realized that I would just go where I could get what I wanted if they weren't willing to give it.

That being said, I like subs who never forget to be genteel, especially in trying times (handling conflict is a litmus test - if you don't do it well chances are good we won't get along). I like subs who show that they feel protective of me but wait for me to tell them when I want that sort of support, then jump at the chance to do so. I adore acquiescence, especially if it's something the sub wouldn't give anyone else. I like a thinker with an opinion who will still defer to me, even if they don't agree with me (you don't have to agree, you have to acquiesce), and then support me if I end up having to fix something I've miscalculated. I like it when someone is genuinely interested in my well being, it touches my heart and endears them to me. I like people who follow through on their commitments. I like masochists looking to push the envelope. I like people who communicate their kink when I ask, but otherwise wait for me to bring it to them trusting that their desires are important to me. I like people who can think outside the box and appreciate relationships that don't really fit into any box (kink, vanilla or otherwise). I like people who don't have a kink agenda, or if they do then it's secondary to the relationship. I like aggressive lovers who cave when signaled to do so. I like it when someone anticipates my desires (or tries to) after having gotten to know me. I like it when they consistantly submit even when it sucks. I like a submissive who can own their mistakes and do their best to make it right. I prefer submissives who get their kick from seeing me smile and are motivated by that kick (whether they are the person who put the smile on my face or not). I prefer someone who knows and accepts that the thing that's going to "send me" is probably going to be the thing they least like or want to give (that's the veritable foundation of my sadism for both D/s and SM). I like to share interests other than kink and prefer a submissive who is interested in doing the same - at my leisure.

I don't expect perfection from anyone but a perfect sub, to me, would embrace all of the above.

_____________________________

“The more you love, the more you can love—and the more intensely you love. Nor is there any limit on how many you can love. If a person had time enough, he could love all of that majority who are decent and just.”
- Robert Heinlein

(in reply to DiannaVesta)

RE: Your PERFECT sub - 4/9/2006 8:29:54 AM

Posts: 1087
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Mid-Atlantic area
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MizSuz

quote:

ORIGINAL: DiannaVesta

You paint the perfect picture for the sub of your dreams. Who is he/she? Whatever you want. Details please!

The perfect sub doesn't exist, and that's reason enough to have more than one. If I want it I'll get it and if I won't get it from this one then I'll get it from that one. I don't worry over it, in fact I've known submissives to reexamine what they were willing to do when they realized that I would just go where I could get what I wanted if they weren't willing to give it.

That being said, I like subs who never forget to be genteel, especially in trying times (handling conflict is a litmus test - if you don't do it well chances are good we won't get along). I like subs who show that they feel protective of me but wait for me to tell them when I want that sort of support, then jump at the chance to do so. I adore acquiescence, especially if it's something the sub wouldn't give anyone else. I like a thinker with an opinion who will still defer to me, even if they don't agree with me (you don't have to agree, you have to acquiesce), and then support me if I end up having to fix something I've miscalculated. I like it when someone is genuinely interested in my well being, it touches my heart and endears them to me. I like people who follow through on their commitments. I like masochists looking to push the envelope. I like people who communicate their kink when I ask, but otherwise wait for me to bring it to them trusting that their desires are important to me. I like people who can think outside the box and appreciate relationships that don't really fit into any box (kink, vanilla or otherwise). I like people who don't have a kink agenda, or if they do then it's secondary to the relationship. I like aggressive lovers who cave when signaled to do so. I like it when someone anticipates my desires (or tries to) after having gotten to know me. I like it when they consistantly submit even when it sucks. I like a submissive who can own their mistakes and do their best to make it right. I prefer submissives who get their kick from seeing me smile and are motivated by that kick (whether they are the person who put the smile on my face or not). I prefer someone who knows and accepts that the thing that's going to "send me" is probably going to be the thing they least like or want to give (that's the veritable foundation of my sadism for both D/s and SM). I like to share interests other than kink and prefer a submissive who is interested in doing the same - at my leisure.

I don't expect perfection from anyone but a perfect sub, to me, would embrace all of the above.

I love what you wrote and how you articulated it. I agree that this thread should teach submissives a lot because I see that many of us generally want the same thing.

I also agree that there is no perfect sub and I too prefer to have more then one. My needs are complex and I have never found one person who could give me everything I need/desire. It is not unusual for me to be in a primary relationship with one woman and then have both male and female slaves.

I’ve had as many as 3 slaves living in my house with me. 2 males and 1 female. Then I may have others I like to spend time with. I get something different from each of them.

_____________________________

(in reply to MizSuz)

RE: Your PERFECT sub - 4/9/2006 2:33:59 PM

Posts: 83
Joined: 5/13/2004
Status: offline

I'm fairly new to the real time scene. I've been doing the phone exploration for 15 years at least, and the internet for the last 10. The real time subs I've had I can count on one hand. However 2 come to mind recently. One is a truly submissive, sweet, cd. What we shared together because he was truly submissive was a friendship, an intimacy, spanking and strapon scenes. Perhaps the closeness we shared is not the traditional male concept of closeness but it felt very nice to me and to him as well I think. The other, a newbie do me type submissive cleaned my house and I felt not close to him at all because of his attitude in approaching me. Although I appreciate his help, his expectations were wrong. He stood me up a couple of times. He expected that I was going to rescue him from a dull lifeless marriage and become his patron. He expected me to break out of my lesbianism and be interested in traditional sexual intimacy with him. Do you see the problem with unfair expectations? It is important that there is a meeting of the minds. People who are truly submissive can melt my heart. People who are open minded about how they define intimacy will win. Those who expect traditional sexual intimacy will not find it. I felt sad that he was so desperately looking for something I didn't have to give, but not everyone is compatible.

_____________________________

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You'd look pretty in my panties...

(in reply to DiannaVesta)

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