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RE: The Perils of Being Yourself - 5/3/2010 11:10:42 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

Be careful, Merc.


Why? The comments apply to some and don't to others. I'd have to care who considered my comments a reflective mirror and those who had an opinion different, yet as equally valid as mine, to be careful.

Feel free to review; however there was no representation of a 'one true way' or even the comparative use of "better" that I assigned to how we live.

I imagine I'd feel as bothered by those who take their toddlers through the gates of the Folsom Street Fair, as those that represent they are repulsed by me taking beth on a leash naked through the Folsom Street on any other day of the year. I set myself apart from the hypocritical because, if asked, as much as I don't think it appropriate personally, I would support the parent's right to include in their lifestyle and their relationship with their children to have them see everything on public display.

I don't need to agree in the actions of another, to support their freedom to do so. I'd be hypocritical to think any other way. I don't consider either of us practicing "in your face" style of kink or raising children. As I say about my relationship; only death will determine if our 'way' worked long term. The fact that it's worked going on 8 years - is incidental. The fact that a toddler got to see naked people whipped, flogged, chained, or serving the function of a 'pony' pulling a 'Surrey With The Fringe On Top' on city streets can only have 'bad' or 'good' parental guidance assigned if that toddler becomes a serial killer, priest, or alternatively does something benefiting humanity down the road.

quote:

my actions have consequences.
As do mine - where is that excluded in my position?

I understand them, make decisions, and take actions based upon that consideration. Without doing so - weather permitting beth may never wear clothing. I deal with consequences every day in every aspect of my life. However, they are MY consequences, and not the image of what they should or shouldn't be based upon someone else's position of social norms.

While traveling in Rome we took in a tour of the Vatican. There was a sign specifically saying the consequences for a woman wearing a bathing suit would be that she couldn't take the tour. beth didn't wear one, as usual she didn't wear underwear either, but there was no sign posted. During the tour, I did have her 'flash' in a secluded place, not once but twice. There may be after-life consequences to that decision, but my decision was to risk it. What I didn't risk was caring that someone would be offended by that action, or its disclosure. Similarly, the people previously taking the tour who would be shocked to see bare tits in the flesh while taking pictures of marble renditions of the same part of female anatomy, didn't consider, or care, how I felt when they wrote their names as graffiti on the walls of the Vatican. Their, in my opinion, 'disrespect' was pragmatically much more long lasting than mine. The consequences were nil for both of us - at least on this plain of existence.

I don't post for agreement or have acceptance as my goal. I post because this is the way I feel; this is the way I live. I don't need anyone like it.

quote:

We don't all get to live your charmed life.
Nor do I assign the word "charmed".

(in reply to brainiacsub)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: The Perils of Being Yourself - 5/3/2010 11:26:45 AM   
brainiacsub


Posts: 1209
Joined: 11/11/2007
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline 		Look Merc, I just didn't want you to paint with a broad brush everyone who might be espousing the virtues of social norms as cowards or hiding. I didn't take your post personally, but I wanted you to understand that there are those of us who disagree with you for legitimate reasons.

A few weeks ago I took the "social norms" position in another thread and Jeff and Carol were none too kind in letting me know how intolerant I was, when in fact I was only arguing actions and consequences. Jeff made it clear in no uncertain terms that he has no problem leading Carol on a leash in public and that anyone who disagreed could basically go fuck themselves. (not quoting him, just recounting the essence of the discussion). In light of that exchange, this thread did not surprise me one bit. I have never made a moral judgement about whether it's right or wrong how a person chooses to express their kink. I do believe and have always said that one must be prepared to accept the consequences, however unfair those might be.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: The Perils of Being Yourself - 5/3/2010 11:39:53 AM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		Merc,

Why didn't you walk beth on a leash through the Vatican?

Edited to add: You are full of shit. A hypocrite.

< Message edited by domiguy -- 5/3/2010 11:41:23 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 43
RE: The Perils of Being Yourself - 5/3/2010 11:55:44 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

took the "social norms" position in another thread and Jeff and Carol were none too kind in letting me know how intolerant I was, when in fact I was only arguing actions and consequences. I do believe and have always said that one must be prepared to accept the consequences, however unfair those might be.


I won't speak for Jeff & Carol; however, I didn't then, and don't see now, Jeff indicating that he didn't understand or didn't expect there to be consequences for his actions should he decide to do anything, publicly or privately, with Carol. I know I would have considered them and expect he would do the same.

Actions and consequences are irrelevant to public or personal tolerance and it is in this regard that I see more allegedly 'accepting' lifestyle people guilty of hypocrisy. There is no requirement for you to join in, participate, or even agree in the action taken to be "tolerant" and accepting. You're participation in any consequence is choosing, or deciding not to, bail them out should the consequence be arrest.

Nor was there any; "that's not fair!" My experience is that the only "fair" experienced in life includes a 'Midway' with a 'Freak-show', and sells 'funnel cake'. Reading back though this and other similar threads, I don't recall anyone advocating for no consequence. However consequence isn't an excuse for hypocrisy, nor should it be a consideration or rationalization for not accepting someone else's decision about the lifestyle they choose to live privately or publicly.

Accepting "social norms" as the immovable position for not accepting the lifestyle decisions made inclusive of consequential considerations of another encumbers social evolution. Or would you be part of the group who condemned, and in many societies in the US and throughout the world still condemns, same sex partners holding hands?

It is my position that the assignment of 'more equal' status to some lifestyle choices over others the textbook position of hypocrisy. Especially when doing so as part of a 'head bobbing' crowd standing on the side-lines taking pictures of people doing things and living as you wish you could.

That representation may not be applicable to you; however, it does apply to many I've encountered in my life before there was media such as the interenet and long before my current relationship with beth. People 'represented' for me, on my behalf. Not having the venue opportunity or participatory partner all I could do back then was, walk with them, attend their functions, financially support, and applaud their effort at every opportunity. Now - I happen to have the chance to represent. I'm happy to do so.

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 5/3/2010 12:34:49 PM >

(in reply to brainiacsub)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: The Perils of Being Yourself - 5/3/2010 12:04:04 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy
Merc,
Why didn't you walk beth on a leash through the Vatican?
Edited to add: You are full of shit. A hypocrite.

cowardguy
Happy to provide a link to both pictures, I think the pope's house is in the background of one.

I am so glad to have you expose yourself as the coward and fraud that you are 'cg'.

YOU should stay hidden and in the shadows or under rocks. It would be a determent to any group to have you representing your ignorance publicly.

Thank you for being the coward little phony freak you are. I'm glad you know you limitations and act accordingly. There has been a few people sharing stories about you with me on the other side. They find you as silly and ignorant in person as the persona you represent on CM. Hell - that's amazing!

I also hear in public, you can only go out at night, and then in only dimly lit venues.

Speaking of the 'Perils of Being Yourself; next time you switch to some other phony icon representation - I suggest a 'slug' would be appropriate - spineless and leaving a slime trail.

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 5/3/2010 12:30:02 PM >

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: The Perils of Being Yourself - 5/3/2010 12:39:21 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		Jeff, first I want to say that I am sorry that you have had this disappointment.  There was a little more to this than I had known originally.  I have to tell you that the additional information that you have revealed in this thread does make Me feel a bit more sad about the situation.  I know there were obstacles and difficulties regarding your move and right about now, you and Carol and probably feeling that you went through it all on for unrealized pretenses.  I want to wish you both the best of luck for your new move.  Perhaps we'll finally have the opportunity for a hello in person.

One thing that I find unfortunate about the way this thread has turned is that a lot of folks are seeing this in a much different perspective than I am.  A lot of folks are getting into the territory of what is publicly acceptable regarding kink/power dynamics/whatever, and I really don't think that was the point.  I'm actually pretty conservative in those areas, but I make certain distinctions about how I handle that.

From what I'm seeing here, there's a significant difference.  It doesn't seem to Me that this is about being 'in your face' or however you want to word it.  I'm seeing it more as the people you want to bring into your home and into your life.  I'm also seeing it as the ability to be your authentic self and expressing the dynamic that you have, as you see fit, and not altering it because the people who are important to you are present.  I think we're talking about something here that goes a little farther than casual acquaintances or what some who use a little looser definition of the word friend.  Meaning the type of friend that you don't have to tone down who you are or the way you live.  It doesn't have to mean you do it in the exact same way (though I would say that in the situation that I believe Jeff was trying to create, the philosophies on the matter might want to be pretty darn close) but at the same time you shouldn't be hiding who you are either.  If no other place, where are you supposed to be who you really are than your home and in your life?

I guess I'm going to chalk this up to being a bit old-fashioned.  I figure I see it as a very simplistic concept.  My home, My rules, and that isn't going to change just because you came through the door.  Your home, your rules, and I don't expect you to change who you are just because I'm present.




_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: The Perils of Being Yourself - 5/3/2010 12:52:12 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		Merc,you are full of crap. You come out here expecting for everyone to accept your ramblings and bullshit as gospel.

You are as boring as you are predictable. Why didn't you walk bet through the Vatican on a leash?

Easy fucking answer, I'll even spot you this one. The answer is......It wasn't appropriate.

You seem happy which is more than I can say for many the majority of couples I come across. Yet when you come out here you act as if whatever you say has no meaning or accountability.

You hate to be confronted when someone throws your own words back in your face. You are the hypocrite. You are the one that cannot live up to or support what you have written by your own hand.

Coward. Liar. Puppet.

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RE: The Perils of Being Yourself - 5/3/2010 1:15:21 PM   
brainiacsub


Posts: 1209
Joined: 11/11/2007
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline 		LadyPact,

I would like to clarify my position since I was one of the ones who mentioned the public displays, and I agree with you that that was not the point of this thread. I was, however, trying to make the connection between the attitude Jeff and Carol took in the thread about public displays and how that attitude led to this "tragedy" which was completely avoidable. I do not know them personally and my opinion comes only from that one exchange I had with them a few weeks back, but first impressions mean alot. If I can recall correctly, their position in that thread was that they should be allowed to do whatever they want and live their lives free of scrutiny because they aren't hurting anyone...damn the social norms and damn the consequences. They seemed to think that anyone who might object to their choices was an intolerant biggot. We all know that that is not how the real world works.

I do understand that what happened to them was among friends - and supposedly like minded friends - and not complete strangers. I was not commenting so much on the details of what happened as much as the attitude that I believe may have contributed to it -the attitude of "I'm going to do what I want and I don't care what other people think." Most people give up that attitude around 12. As adults, the consequences can be devastating. A different viewpoint to consider is all.

< Message edited by brainiacsub -- 5/3/2010 1:19:44 PM >

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: The Perils of Being Yourself - 5/3/2010 1:19:49 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

Why didn't you walk bet through the Vatican on a leash?

slug,
I didn't have the desire to do so. Projecting your inadequacy, fear, and self loathing on others isn't realistic.

Let me guess, were you capable of being in a relationship you WOULD chop off the arm of yourself or your partner just to prove the commitment to your relationship or it's 'no limits' representation. Here's a clue maybe someday you'll be in a position to use it - being confident in yourself and your relationship - you do NOT need to prove anything to others, especially one-handed web-surfing slugs like you.

I do what I like, when and where, I want to do it. In the case of others, my participation and/or agreement in whatever it is that they are doing, is NOT required for me to support them and their initiative. Another of the many distinguishing things we don't have in common, and one of the many which, I am happy to say, differentiates myself from you.

quote:

You seem happy which is more than I can say for many the majority of couples I come across.
Come on now - be honest with yourself and your reality. Who could be both happy and around you to come across for you to contrast? A mutually exclusive condition doesn't represent any meaningful statistic.

quote:

Yet when you come out here you act as if whatever you say has no meaning or accountability.
Just the opposite slug. You see, I can and do, stand up behind any representation I make on these threads. Another difference between us that I am sure is impossible for you to relate. You don't have any accountability because you are too afraid to represent yourself resulting in not having any accountable position. A safe, but cowardly approach for life - but again - understandable considering your posts as personally representative.

quote:

You hate to be confronted when someone throws your own words back in your face.
you've confronted me? When? you don't have the ability to do so. As a coward, you can't.

Look up the word "hypocrite". Beside your picture, well one of them anyway, the definition is doing one thing contrary to your belief system. As the slug you are, I doubt you will respond but where has that occurred anywhere in this thread or any other for that matter.

Contrast that with your spineless attitude about being yourself as long as you don't generate any attention to yourself.

To be a "puppet" you have someone pull strings and get a reaction. For example - you'll reply not with any other information, but with yet another attempted insult. It's the best you can do - but still it serves as defining of you and your abilities.

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: The Perils of Being Yourself - 5/3/2010 1:23:16 PM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline 		Correct LP. This is not a case of public behavior. The only incident that actually occurred was in my living room. The rest was all theory on the part of the other person and the debate was carried out via private communications, not public ones. It was, however, "in the face" of this other person. Honestly, there'd have been no way to actually have as intimate contact as we expected without it being "in his face".

I believe it was you who said something to the effect of, "If I tell clip to get his head turned around, I expect him to obey and get it done." That is what we are discussing here -- my assertion that I can and do exert authority over Carol's thoughts, emotions, value system and fundamental world view. I've been flamed on these boards for that statement and I got a similar reaction from my ex-friend(s). This other person felt that such control was either delusional on my part... a fairly amusing case of mathematical proof that bumblebees cannot fly... or that it was so invasive that it was simply horrific.

I remain unrepentant. If I give Carol a command, I expect her to obey... period. And let's all remember that obedience does not necessarily equate with successful completion. Even a command as simple as "get that light bulb changed" can fail if we have no spare light bulbs. It does not matter to me whether that command is in the form of an external action such as the classic "stripping in the restaurant" thread or it is more internal such as "You mood isn't helping this situation. Get it fixed". I can and do give her commands to update her very value-system and the way she sees herself as a person. All of these commands are largely successful. Just as with all commands, they sometimes fail. I always expect and get a best-faith effort. Carol has a lot of trust and respect for me. The commands are successful because it is her core belief that if I am giving such a command, I'm probably right.

Carol is my slave. I expect obedience or the collar back... those are her only two choices. I don't honestly care whether such a dynamic would work for anyone else. It does, however, seem to make the both of us very happy. It did not make my ex-friend happy.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: The Perils of Being Yourself - 5/3/2010 1:23:24 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		Just pulled your strings....Puppet.

You are weak.



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(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: The Perils of Being Yourself - 5/3/2010 1:54:04 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
To be a "puppet" you have someone pull strings and get a reaction. For example - you'll reply not with any other information, but with yet another attempted insult. It's the best you can do - but still it serves as defining of you and your abilities.

quote:

ORIGINAL: slug (aka domiguy)

Just pulled your strings....Puppet.

You are weak.

I just love when a point is confirmed - don't you?

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: The Perils of Being Yourself - 5/3/2010 1:57:12 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		which is exactly what you were guilty of when you drew me into this conversation. You are a simpleton....I own you......Puppet.

Which means I own everything you do.....Bummer!

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Profile   Post #: 53
RE: The Perils of Being Yourself - 5/3/2010 2:13:16 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
To be a "puppet" you have someone pull strings and get a reaction. For example - you'll reply not with any other information, but with yet another attempted insult. It's the best you can do - but still it serves as defining of you and your abilities.

quote:

ORIGINAL: slug a/k/a coward-guy

which is exactly what you were guilty of when you drew me into this conversation. You are a simpleton....I own you......Puppet.

Which means I own everything you do.....Bummer!


Own me? Once again projecting and vicariously living though me isn't a strong representation of your life.


So let me get this straight - You realize that I drew you into this conversation, yet I'm the "puppet" and you "own" me!???

slug - I now know something more about you - among your other many shortcomings, you don't know what a puppet is or how it works!


Wow - I'm embarrassed for you! How about yet another icon picture change. Maybe that will make you feel all better!

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 5/3/2010 2:14:14 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 54
RE: The Perils of Being Yourself - 5/3/2010 2:33:48 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		Go away! I tire of you. You have supplied me with my fun...Now away with you! You bore me.

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Profile   Post #: 55
RE: The Perils of Being Yourself - 5/3/2010 2:52:25 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slug a/k/a cowardguy - NEW ICON:

Go away! I tire of you. You have supplied me with my fun...Now away with you! You bore me.


Unfortunately - for you - Hell no!!

you should see the fun correspondence I'm getting at your expense slug! You are exposed. I'm afraid no icon change will help you this time. you'll need to cower in P&RS for at least month.

You are exposed as the spineless slug you are without even a stolen shell to crawl into with your slime!

You are a cowardly, one handed web surfer, who can't stand up to anyone or anything generating more than a slight breeze of exposure. You, in a manner and frequency more than anyone else on CM, represent the worse case of representation by 'on-line' lifestyle websites.

Exposing you is important. People should not hold the mistaken believe that your self loathing fear of being associated with an alternative lifestyle, whatever it is, represents the reality they will experience in the real world. You provide a valuable reference of how not to act, and what not to do. In that regard you provide an important function like any bottom feeder eating other people's waste. As long as you are here I relish the continuing opportunities that I'm confident you will provide, as you further expose your ignorance.

Wish away - I appreciate your surrendering words. As you said I did in this case, I will "draw" you out again, pulling your strings at my whim, letting more people see you for what you are. I know you hate it - which is a reason I'll continue to do it.

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 5/3/2010 3:26:01 PM >

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: The Perils of Being Yourself - 5/3/2010 3:12:00 PM   
ZeIda


Posts: 47
Joined: 12/1/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Wish away - I appreciate your surrendering words. As you said I did in this case, I will "draw" you out again, pulling your strings at my whim, letting more people see you for what you are. I know you hate it - which is a reason I'll continue to do it.


Be careful now, you almost come across as a sadist in this quote, and I'm sure that's the last thing you'd want. You being so concerned with public opinion and all....


(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: The Perils of Being Yourself - 5/3/2010 3:31:46 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		Yawn...rant on puppet...rant on. Go away, I tire of you.

Although I own you, I give you your freedom for you have tainted all that you touch. You have nothing I desire.

There will be no reparations.

_____________________________



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Profile   Post #: 58
RE: The Perils of Being Yourself - 5/3/2010 3:56:23 PM   
daddysprop247


Posts: 1712
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

Correct LP. This is not a case of public behavior. The only incident that actually occurred was in my living room. The rest was all theory on the part of the other person and the debate was carried out via private communications, not public ones. It was, however, "in the face" of this other person. Honestly, there'd have been no way to actually have as intimate contact as we expected without it being "in his face".

I believe it was you who said something to the effect of, "If I tell clip to get his head turned around, I expect him to obey and get it done." That is what we are discussing here -- my assertion that I can and do exert authority over Carol's thoughts, emotions, value system and fundamental world view. I've been flamed on these boards for that statement and I got a similar reaction from my ex-friend(s). This other person felt that such control was either delusional on my part... a fairly amusing case of mathematical proof that bumblebees cannot fly... or that it was so invasive that it was simply horrific.




this is the reaction my Master and i have run into again and again when attempting to meet and develop connections with people in the "lifestyle." the idea that he is really in control, that he really expects my obedience at all times, that my life really does revolve around being his property and servant...that seems to horrify most. the sad/funny thing is when i was a new slave and new to this whole D/s way of living and thinking, i assumed that i would finally found a place where i belonged, where i would find camaraderie and kinship with others of likemind. instead, i have had far more luck finding plain old "vanilla" folk (with a more traditional philosophy on Male/female relationships) who can understand and respect the way we live than among lifestylers.

i believe the problem is that BDSM and D/s are too often viewed as connected concepts when in reality they are not necessarily, or even usually. the other issue is the fact that those who are introduced to all this as a means to explore their sexuality will never really understand those who come into this seeking a fundamental way to live and love, and vice versa.


(in reply to leadership527)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: The Perils of Being Yourself - 5/3/2010 3:59:12 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slug a/k/a cowardguy - ICON
Yawn...rant on puppet...rant on. Go away, I tire of you.

Although I own you, I give you your freedom for you have tainted all that you touch. You have nothing I desire. There will be no reparations.
you have a very weird way of showing that slug. Paying so much attention and feeling the need to respond though attempted insult is no way to represent I have "nothing" you desire.

"Reparations"? From you?! Unless that Sammy Davis Jr. picture you hid behind was autographed you've exposed nothing of yourself or anything you have with value.

Now you add liar to coward, spineless, slime generating, ignorant, one handed web-surfer, on your long list of confirmed traits for your resume.

We've already covered the representation of the word 'puppet'. Lets try and teach you another - "tired", or as you said before, I "bore" you, isn't personified by continuing and ongoing response. When bored you don't hang on every word and react. Maybe in your ignorance you meant to use other words like 'envious' or 'fascinated' or 'enamored' or 'intrigued'; any of those would be more in line and represented by your focus. After all, you don't respond to any of the substance of this thread, or any post - you only focus on me! I'm amused by your dancing at the end of the string. I'm flattered really by your focus; however, if you mean to say something else you should rethink your actions as they compare to your words. Just saying....

As an example, personally when I'm bored I change the channel. I don't get engaged by it. However with your stings pulled once again - what else could you do?

Damn slug - did you cover or break all the mirrors in your basement apartment to avoid having to face your reflected reality?

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 60
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