RE: BP Oil Spill : Who's Obama gonna call ?

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thompsonx -> RE: BP Oil Spill : Who's Obama gonna call ? (6/4/2010 8:37:57 AM)
quote: The national high school dropout rate is probably in the 40-50 %'s, it's considerably higher in S. Calif. At one of those "Star parties" if George Bush were to walk in he'd be the "genious" there! Scary! I saw a list of actors a few years ago and most of them didn't graduate high school. I didn't say "everyone" in Hollywood, just most of them. Sure, someone with high intelligence and good looks will sneak through once in a while. quote: This isn't a math problem it's an engineering problem and Danica Mc Kellar nor President Obama can do anything about it. And if you're looking for "brain power" wouldn't "Hollywood" be like,....not on the list? How about,......oh.... I dunno,.....Massachusetts Institute of Technology (M.I.T.) in Cambridge, Mass? You did know that einstien was a high school drop out? You did know that james eads was a high school drop out? I am sorry that you were not aware that you cannot be an engineer if you cannot do math.

thompsonx -> RE: BP Oil Spill : Who's Obama gonna call ? (6/4/2010 8:40:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda Salvaging the oil is so far down on their list of priorities it isn't even on the list. There is absolutely no higher priority for BP than to shut that thing off, as quickly and as completely as possible, and there is no viable solution that they would not try if it seemed as though it had even a miniscule chance of working. If they could plug that leak by stuffing their wives and children down the hole, they'd probably be doing that. Is that why they refused any help from mr. cameron whose knowledge of deep sea work exceeds bp's ?

SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: BP Oil Spill : Who's Obama gonna call ? (6/4/2010 8:47:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda Salvaging the oil is so far down on their list of priorities it isn't even on the list. There is absolutely no higher priority for BP than to shut that thing off, as quickly and as completely as possible, and there is no viable solution that they would not try if it seemed as though it had even a miniscule chance of working. If they could plug that leak by stuffing their wives and children down the hole, they'd probably be doing that. Seriously nobody in that organisation can fix a leaky pipe? Ahh the innocence of childhood.

ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: BP Oil Spill : Who's Obama gonna call ? (6/4/2010 8:51:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda Salvaging the oil is so far down on their list of priorities it isn't even on the list. There is absolutely no higher priority for BP than to shut that thing off, as quickly and as completely as possible, and there is no viable solution that they would not try if it seemed as though it had even a miniscule chance of working. If they could plug that leak by stuffing their wives and children down the hole, they'd probably be doing that. Is that why they refused any help from mr. cameron whose knowledge of deep sea work exceeds bp's ? Yeah, that's a good point. I suppose my argument only works if you assume the people at BP are bright enough to recognize a good idea when they see it. Which would be a flawed assumption. My point, though, is that despite their bumbling and incompetence, there is nothing they want more than to have that thing shut off, now, or yesterday if possible. There's no way in hell they'd even consider salvaging any of the oil to be anything close to a priority. The cleanup costs alone are estimated right now to hit in the neighborhood of $50,000 for every barrel of oil leaked, and that's before you start to calculate the billions of dollars in damages they'll have to pay for the thousands of people who will lose their livelihoods in that region. They could easily wind up paying in excess of $100,000 for every barrel of oil that leaks out of that well, which means that with oil selling for less than $80 a barrel, they could bankrupt their company trying to salvage the oil for production. They're watching their company slowly die with every barrel of oil that gushes out of that pipe, and they know it. All they want is to stop it, no matter what the cost.

ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: BP Oil Spill : Who's Obama gonna call ? (6/4/2010 8:52:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3 quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda Salvaging the oil is so far down on their list of priorities it isn't even on the list. There is absolutely no higher priority for BP than to shut that thing off, as quickly and as completely as possible, and there is no viable solution that they would not try if it seemed as though it had even a miniscule chance of working. If they could plug that leak by stuffing their wives and children down the hole, they'd probably be doing that. Seriously nobody in that organisation can fix a leaky pipe? Ahh the innocence of childhood. The evidence would suggest that at 5,000 feet of depth, that is exactly the case.

SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: BP Oil Spill : Who's Obama gonna call ? (6/4/2010 9:02:50 AM)
I think what you are perhaps not understanding about BP and all oil companies is that they always have a long term outlook because they go for long periods not finding anything in terms of new energy sources. Someone in that organisation has or is in the process of calculating how to make the best of a bad situation. These companies make so much profit from the oil that they can spend vast amounts of money on finding new sources. The amount you spend on finding the oil means that when you find it you must have access to it. What will hurt BP more than all the amounts they payout in damages is not having access to the oil they have spent a fortune on finding in the first place. They will not just hold their hands up and walk away from this oil field, they are always in it for the long term. If anything it should demonstrate to you how crazy a situation it is that a company can make so much profit and happily absorb billions of whatever currency in court settlements.

thompsonx -> RE: BP Oil Spill : Who's Obama gonna call ? (6/4/2010 9:02:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda Salvaging the oil is so far down on their list of priorities it isn't even on the list. There is absolutely no higher priority for BP than to shut that thing off, as quickly and as completely as possible, and there is no viable solution that they would not try if it seemed as though it had even a miniscule chance of working. If they could plug that leak by stuffing their wives and children down the hole, they'd probably be doing that. Is that why they refused any help from mr. cameron whose knowledge of deep sea work exceeds bp's ? Yeah, that's a good point. I suppose my argument only works if you assume the people at BP are bright enough to recognize a good idea when they see it. Which would be a flawed assumption. I would point out that it was bp who chose to use a less effective and cheaper blow out preventer. It was bp who chose to lie about the magnitude of the spill. It was bp who lobied to reduce the protocol precautions concerning blow outs. My point, though, is that despite their bumbling and incompetence, there is nothing they want more than to have that thing shut off, now, or yesterday if possible. There's no way in hell they'd even consider salvaging any of the oil to be anything close to a priority. I believe the link was posted about the two skimmer ships from sweden that retrieve the oil with centrifuges brought in by bp. The cleanup costs alone are estimated right now to hit in the neighborhood of $50,000 for every barrel of oil leaked, and that's before you start to calculate the billions of dollars in damages they'll have to pay for the thousands of people who will lose their livelihoods in that region. They could easily wind up paying in excess of $100,000 for every barrel of oil that leaks out of that well, which means that with oil selling for less than $80 a barrel, they could bankrupt their company trying to salvage the oil for production. Do you remember reading recently how the fines levied against exxon for the exxon valdez spill were reduced to about 1/100 of the original fine. They're watching their company slowly die with every barrel of oil that gushes out of that pipe, and they know it. All they want is to stop it, no matter what the cost. Had not the headlong rush for black ink on the bottom line not clouded their judgement about the predcautions relating to this sort of enterprise then perhaps this would not be happening. Perhaps people and corporations should be sanctioned out of business for the willing disregard for the safety and well being of others.

cuckoldmepls -> RE: BP Oil Spill : Who's Obama gonna call ? (6/4/2010 9:25:18 AM)
Obama is full of crap. He's not in charge, the experts are in charge. In fact, this country runs itself and would run itself even if we didn't have a President. In fact, we wouldn't be $10 trillion in debt if each state were running their own affairs with only a few laws passed at the federal level to standardize things, such as keeping our schools in English, and saying the Pledge of Allegiance to our flag. If you read the 10th amendment, you will soon realize that 90% of the laws and agencies Congress have passed and created are unconstitutional. Doesn't it make more sense for each state to be responsible for their own projects, and social programs. Why should people in Kansas have to pay taxes to the federal government, which then redistributes it back to California to pay for social programs? The census just tops the cake. They advertised that you should fill out the forms so your state can get money back from the federal government. So this is how obama and the liberals operate. They take your money for unconstitutional programs, then redistribute it back to you, and you are supposed to be grateful, and praise them. Ok, well I'm officially going to do the same thing. Everyone should send me $5 by paypal, and I'm going to do some great things with it, and take credit for it. I'll put you on my list, so I can keep you informed of the great things I'm doing with it. Of course, I'll have to keep $100k a year because obviously spending this money will take up a large part of my time, which will turn into a full time job. Then I have to invest a portion of it, so I can have a nice retirement income like Congress. I deserve it, because I'm going to be helping people. www.apathetic-usa.com

SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: BP Oil Spill : Who's Obama gonna call ? (6/4/2010 9:28:35 AM)
On the one hand you say Obama isn't in charge and on the other you blame him for the direction your country is taking, which is it?

domiguy -> RE: BP Oil Spill : Who's Obama gonna call ? (6/4/2010 9:28:58 AM)
No one likes you....I mean no one. When was the last time you got laid? Is this why you are so angry? Let me give you a hug.

cuckoldmepls -> RE: BP Oil Spill : Who's Obama gonna call ? (6/4/2010 9:40:14 AM)
That's the whole problem. Obama and the liberals want to be in charge of everything. Their whole objective is to control all the money, and redistribute it as they see fit. The ony way to do that is by government control. Yes, Congress does control the direction this country goes in but not one single person should be allowed to Obama tries to do, and that should change by states exercising their 10th amendment rights. Hell, he even wants to pretend he's in charge of this oil spill when he doesn't know jack schitt about drilling. No one in Congress does either. It's actually even scarier to think that people in the energy department would be in charge of this. But yet they want to tell the experts how to do their job, and even prosecute them for an accident. It was an accident people. In America we don't prosecute people for accidents unless someone gets killed or severely maimed and you were breaking the law to begin with, such as drunk driving or speeding. These people are insane.

thompsonx -> RE: BP Oil Spill : Who's Obama gonna call ? (6/4/2010 9:45:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy Let me give you a hug. Well ok but I would prefer you and jeff prevail on luscious to do the honors[:)]

thompsonx -> RE: BP Oil Spill : Who's Obama gonna call ? (6/4/2010 9:54:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cuckoldmepls That's the whole problem. Obama and the liberals want to be in charge of everything. Is it your position that conservatives do not? Look at the far reaching aspects of the dept. of homeland security and the patriot act. Their whole objective is to control all the money, and redistribute it as they see fit. From the working class to the wealthy who do not labor...why do you hate the working class? The ony way to do that is by government control. Yes, Congress does control the direction this country goes in but not one single person should be allowed to Obama tries to do, and that should change by states exercising their 10th amendment rights. Hell, he even wants to pretend he's in charge of this oil spill when he doesn't know jack schitt about drilling. No one in Congress does either. It's actually even scarier to think that people in the energy department would be in charge of this. But yet they want to tell the experts how to do their job, Do you mean the experts who lied about the magnitude of the spill? Do you mean the experts who lobied to reduce the safety protocols for deep water drilling? Do you mean the experts who chose a less effective blow out preventer because it was cheaper? Why do you feel those who caused this fiasco should be trusted to do anything besides cover thier asses? and even prosecute them for an accident. It was an accident people. In America we don't prosecute people for accidents unless someone gets killed or severely maimed and you were breaking the law to begin with, such as drunk driving or speeding. I believe there are already 11 dead. The links were posted yesterday from the christian science monitor that criminal negligence would not be all that difficult to prove both within the government and at bp. These people are insane. No, bp and thier lackys in the government beauracracies are not insane they are just a bunch of white shoe slickers out to fill their pockets.

LadyCimarron -> RE: BP Oil Spill : Who's Obama gonna call ? (6/4/2010 10:12:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda Salvaging the oil is so far down on their list of priorities it isn't even on the list. There is absolutely no higher priority for BP than to shut that thing off, as quickly and as completely as possible, and there is no viable solution that they would not try if it seemed as though it had even a miniscule chance of working. If they could plug that leak by stuffing their wives and children down the hole, they'd probably be doing that. I hope you are right. Myself and probably the rest of the world could give a rat's ass if they salvage any oil. But I don't know about those blood suckers. They've lied about everything. It would be just like them to try to figure out ways to save their precious oil rather than saving the planet.

ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: BP Oil Spill : Who's Obama gonna call ? (6/4/2010 10:51:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3 I think what you are perhaps not understanding about BP and all oil companies is that they always have a long term outlook because they go for long periods not finding anything in terms of new energy sources. Someone in that organisation has or is in the process of calculating how to make the best of a bad situation. These companies make so much profit from the oil that they can spend vast amounts of money on finding new sources. The amount you spend on finding the oil means that when you find it you must have access to it. What will hurt BP more than all the amounts they payout in damages is not having access to the oil they have spent a fortune on finding in the first place. They will not just hold their hands up and walk away from this oil field, they are always in it for the long term. Who's talking about them walking away? Do you think that six months from now nobody at BP will be able to remember where the well was? It's going to get drilled again, no matter what, but one thing that's certain is that nobody's going to be poking any more holes in the floor of the Gulf until the federal government is absolutely sure they can do it safely. The sooner BP can get this leak stopped, the better their chances of persuading the feds that they're the ones who can be trusted to do that. The longer this goes on, the more it hurts them when they re-apply. All those bastards care about is their bottom line, and no matter what angle you look at this from, the longer it takes them to get this plugged, the more it hurts their bottom line. Period. There is no plausible scenario whatsoever in which they benefit from doing anything but plugging the hole immediately. You seem to be conflating two separate issues - salvaging the leaking oil now, and producing the field later. These are two separate issues. I don't understand where you're tying them together. quote: ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3 If anything it should demonstrate to you how crazy a situation it is that a company can make so much profit and happily absorb billions of whatever currency in court settlements. I wouldn't say they're happy about it at all. This is crippling their company. BP will probably survive in some form or another, but even in the best case (from their perspective), it will be years before they're ever the same company they were before this happened. If even then. But again, I don't understand what this has to do with your initial point.

SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: BP Oil Spill : Who's Obama gonna call ? (6/4/2010 11:05:14 AM)
Why didn't they continue with the top kill, are you saying there isn't enough wasted construction material floating about to bear down on the leak? Or perhaps having a load of loose material would hamper their future drilling efforts? I am very sceptical that a company which has the technical ability to drill for oil at 5,000ft can't then have a strategy to fix this problem sooner. Why can't something be injected into the pipe at a greater pressure than the flow of oil out of it? Why can't they insert something into the pipe and mechanically expand it to cut off the flow at a greater depth within the pipe? I assume the pressure output isn't so great that the pipe would explode if it was capped? You don't need a movie expert to suggest ideas to BP, perhaps these methods would fall short but I've heard no discussion of them at all and this has been going on too long. As soon as the problem is fixed the leverage that BP has over the US government is removed and as you state the US government intends a moratorium on future drilling activities.

flcouple2009 -> RE: BP Oil Spill : Who's Obama gonna call ? (6/4/2010 11:11:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3 I am very sceptical that a company which has the technical ability to drill for oil at 5,000ft can't then have a strategy to fix this problem sooner. The time to ask that question was when the blow out spewed oil for almost 3 months in the Timor Sea last year. It wasn't capped until the relief well was finished. THAT was the time to say wait a minute, before we start punching any more deep water holes does anyone have a better plan than that?

ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: BP Oil Spill : Who's Obama gonna call ? (6/4/2010 11:19:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3 Why didn't they continue with the top kill, are you saying there isn't enough wasted construction material floating about to bear down on the leak? Or perhaps having a load of loose material would hamper their future drilling efforts? I am very sceptical that a company which has the technical ability to drill for oil at 5,000ft can't then have a strategy to fix this problem sooner. Why can't something be injected into the pipe at a greater pressure than the flow of oil out of it? Why can't they insert something into the pipe and mechanically expand it to cut off the flow at a greater depth within the pipe? I assume the pressure output isn't so great that the pipe would explode if it was capped? Actually, that was exactly the problem. There were strong signs that the pipe already was blown out somewhere below the seafloor, and putting further pressure down the borehole would blow it out completely and make the leak much worse. Pressure readings and calculations of the volume of mud that they'd pushed down the hole indicated that mud was being pushed out into the subsea formation about 1,000 feet below the wellhead. It wasn't so much that the backpressure of the oil itself would blow the pipe out if it was capped, but that the increased pressure of the mud was too much for the borehole. quote: ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3 As soon as the problem is fixed the leverage that BP has over the US government is removed and as you state the US government intends a moratorium on future drilling activities. I'm afraid I don't understand the point about BP having leverage over the government.

rulemylife -> RE: BP Oil Spill : Who's Obama gonna call ? (6/4/2010 11:22:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cuckoldmepls These people are insane. Someone around here definitely is, but I won't say who, you have to guess.

ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: BP Oil Spill : Who's Obama gonna call ? (6/4/2010 11:46:00 AM)
Ah, you and your damned quoting techniques!!! [sm=angry.gif] quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx I would point out that it was bp who chose to use a less effective and cheaper blow out preventer. It was bp who chose to lie about the magnitude of the spill. It was bp who lobied to reduce the protocol precautions concerning blow outs. A separate issue, but actually it supports my point more than it does yours. I agree that the only thing that motivates these despicable rat bastards is their bottom line, but that's exactly why they want to get this shut off as soon as possible. The point you're overlooking is that no matter how much oil they salvage, every day that the leak continues costs them far more than the value of however much oil they might recover. It's simple math. At most, even if they were able to recover and sell half the oil that's leaking, they might get as much as a million dollars a day in revenue (that's assuming a leak of 25,000 bbl per day and oil at $80 a barrel). They have already spent well over a billion in less than 50 days, and the true costs haven't even started piling up yet. Any way you look at is, there's just no way to jigger the math to make it even come close to making sense for BP to deliberately drag their feet shutting down the leak. None. It just doesn't add up. quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx I believe the link was posted about the two skimmer ships from sweden that retrieve the oil with centrifuges brought in by bp. Of course. The only way to get the oil out of the water is to separate it from the water. Skimmer ships, centrifuges, polymer filters, whatever. What are they supposed to do, leave the oil in the water in order to prove that they don't really want it? quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx Do you remember reading recently how the fines levied against exxon for the exxon valdez spill were reduced to about 1/100 of the original fine. First of all, I don't believe the fines were reduced. Damages were, but I don't recall fines being reduced. I'm open to being wrong about that; I just don't remember it. And if I recall correctly, compensatory damages were not reduced at all; it was punitive damages that were cut. We need to remember that fines, damages, and cleanup costs are three totally separate issues. There's no way they're going to get the cleanup costs reduced, because whatever it costs is what it costs, and it's their responsibility. So that's almost certainly going to be a minimum of $5 billion that they're on the hook for. Compensatory damages will also be in the billions, and I think it's very probable that the $75 million cap on damages will be lifted because of negligence or criminal misconduct. That will total another several billion. Punitive damages are always a wild card, but I think it's a safe bet they'll be considerable - probably well into the billions, and while that may be reduced, it will still be considerably more than the value of the oil that is flowing out of the ruptured pipe. And, the same is true of the fines. There's no way to know what they'll total, and what they'll be reduced to, but political pressure will probably dictate very high fines and relatively modest adjustments. They're going to get crushed before this is over, any way you look at it. quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx Had not the headlong rush for black ink on the bottom line not clouded their judgement about the predcautions relating to this sort of enterprise then perhaps this would not be happening. Perhaps people and corporations should be sanctioned out of business for the willing disregard for the safety and well being of others. No argument there. Few things would make me happier at this point than seeing BP wiped out as a company, and some of their key personnel serving lengthy prison terms after being sued for everything they own and being bankrupted.

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