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RE: Why Do So Many Mistresses Want Money First? - 6/13/2010 12:36:28 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyNTrainer

It's not the only reason to get fit by any means, but it's a significant motivator.

I strongly agree. I'm no bodybuilder, and I'm on the wimpy end of "athletic," and being more attractive to the babes (and to myself when I look in the mirror) has a lot to do with why I work out. My #1 reason for working out is to be healthy, as there's a history of heart disease in my family, but I've found that alone isn't good enough for me to get my ass to the gym regularly. If I imagine taking my clothes off in front of woman X, though, I get over there, and stay longer than I otherwise might. It's a mindgame I play on myself, so I do what is best for me.

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Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
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(in reply to LadyNTrainer)

RE: Why Do So Many Mistresses Want Money First? - 6/13/2010 12:51:19 PM

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quote:

It's not the only reason to get fit by any means, but it's a significant motivator. And more specifically, the kind of submissive I personally want to date is dedicated to working hard to be an attractive sex object *for me*. He wants to be my eye candy, and he's willing to bust his ass in the gym and in the salon to do it. If you don't want to do those things, that's your business and I don't care, but I also don't want to date you.

Dating me was not an option afforded you, neither were you recognized beyond your arrogance.

(in reply to LadyNTrainer)

RE: Why Do So Many Mistresses Want Money First? - 6/13/2010 12:57:49 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyNTrainerI only date other conscientious eaters

Woah! That cuts me out, then. I don't think I could give up my cornish-pasty- and-mustard breakfast.

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RE: Why Do So Many Mistresses Want Money First? - 6/13/2010 1:05:03 PM

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I think one of the challenges femdoms have is that there's an existing stereotype and fantasy that is as difficult to change as the "femdom from porn" caricature. And that stereotype or fantasy is that femdoms desire domination indiscriminately; part of their appeal is that they have a drive to dominate men unconditionally. Part of the fantasy for some men, I think, is that they are free from the responsibility of the challenge of attracting, courting and keeping the interest of the possible femdom mate; they merely must cross the path, and the femdom takes over.

Or, that the sub male may be willing/eager to conform, adapt, change, improve - but only under the said guidance of such a lady. As soon as she tells him to, he will adjust his eating, his clothing, his grooming. After all, she is in charge. If he could only get her to meet him.

What I continually tell submissive men who ask me for advice regarding how to find a relationship is this: Finding, attracting and keeping the interest of a dominant woman is the same as a vanilla woman, but more challenging. While dominant women do pursue, and enjoy pursuing, you still have to put all the effort into attracting and engaging, and sharing in the process.

Connecting with a femdom is not a shortcut or quick detour from the expense and challenge of courting simply because she's a femdom.

Akasha

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(in reply to LadyNTrainer)

RE: Why Do So Many Mistresses Want Money First? - 6/13/2010 1:17:55 PM

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quote:

I think one of the challenges femdoms have is that there's an existing stereotype and fantasy that is as difficult to change as the "femdom from porn" caricature. And that stereotype or fantasy is that femdoms desire domination indiscriminately; part of their appeal is that they have a drive to dominate men unconditionally. Part of the fantasy for some men, I think, is that they are free from the responsibility of the challenge of attracting, courting and keeping the interest of the possible femdom mate; they merely must cross the path, and the femdom takes over.

I believe there is a truth in what you say but disagree at the same time. Meeting a female dominant is not at all difficult, courting a woman so filled with herself she believes herself the center of the universe and attempting to treat her as a woman or even as a lady quickly becomes a venture into futility.

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Why Do So Many Mistresses Want Money First? - 6/13/2010 1:33:20 PM

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quote:

Meeting a female dominant is not at all difficult, courting a woman so filled with herself she believes herself the center of the universe and attempting to treat her as a woman or even as a lady quickly becomes a venture into futility.

And here you go again with the projections. I wonder why you are attracted to female dominants if you find us so flawed. Or perhaps this is deep seeded masochism?

- LA

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RE: Why Do So Many Mistresses Want Money First? - 6/13/2010 2:11:59 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JhonDean
Dating me was not an option afforded you, neither were you recognized beyond your arrogance.

Where, other than out of your ass, are you getting arrogance out of having standards for the guys I date and personal expectations of my collared submissives? I sincerely hope that you have at least some personal standards too, and that you wouldn't try to make someone a part of your life out of desperation whom you knew was fundamentally incompatible and to whom you were not attracted.

quote:

Meeting a female dominant is not at all difficult, courting a woman so filled with herself she believes herself the center of the universe and attempting to treat her as a woman or even as a lady quickly becomes a venture into futility.

Then duuuh, don't court women who are that self-absorbed. Though apparently you think that any woman who has any personal standards and expectations of the men in her life is self-absorbed. That's likely to be a pretty short ride on the slippery slope to failure when it comes to dating anyone who isn't a desperate crack whore.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha
Part of the fantasy for some men, I think, is that they are free from the responsibility of the challenge of attracting, courting and keeping the interest of the possible femdom mate; they merely must cross the path, and the femdom takes over.

Yep. You see it in porn, too. As soon as the random pizza delivery guy walks in on them making out, even if he's physically unattractive and has all the personality and charm of a banana slug soaked in Nyquil, the hot bi babes want to get it on with him. Doesn't tend to work that way in the real world.

If a man is not reasonably healthy and fit, I'm probably not going to be very attracted to him unless he is really smart and fun and personable. If he doesn't take the time to groom and present himself well socially, then he's going to make a poor impression. This stuff is not rocket science, and it's not arrogance either. These are pretty normal criteria for what most people - both men and women - look for in a date, mate or play partner. If you fail to meet these criteria, your chances of getting anyone to spend time with you voluntarily, eg, not for money, go down a lot.

Welcome to the real world. If you want to whine that this is unfair and women are arrogant for setting personal standards about who they want to date, feel free, but it's not going to help you or change anything.

< Message edited by LadyNTrainer -- 6/13/2010 2:12:40 PM >

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RE: Why Do So Many Mistresses Want Money First? - 6/13/2010 2:22:59 PM

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Fast reply...

Thank god, I'm not a lady.

< Message edited by Lockit -- 6/13/2010 2:26:05 PM >

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RE: Why Do So Many Mistresses Want Money First? - 6/13/2010 2:34:41 PM

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That's nonsense, Lockit. I know plenty of short women who I consider to be ladies.

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RE: Why Do So Many Mistresses Want Money First? - 6/13/2010 2:51:17 PM

Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyNTrainer
Would you prefer they led you on and did not make it clear that they were professionals in that first email?

Threads about tribute often seem to blur the difference scenarios that could occur. Some scenarios involve professional services. Some do not. In my response to you, I focus on professional services.

I think what he is saying is that he would want to see such disclosure in the profile before he decides to write to them. The issue is not clearly defined because the domme in question could also be seeking lifestyle relationships and her profile could be there not for sake of drawing business but for sake of seeking lifestyle partners. In that event, I think the better approach would be to tell a suitor she is not interested (rather than say that she can offer professional services). If she wishes to make such persons aware of her professional practice, I think it would be better to include a mention of it in her profile, pointing to where one can go for additional information. Why?

First, doing so is more likely to convey that she is there to seek a lifestyle relationship versus trying to deceptively lure in people for her practice with an ad for a personal relationship. It might also help filter in favor of those who are open to a lifestyle relationship with a professional domme.

Second, if a man contacts a woman for a personal relationship, and she turns around and says that she is not interested in him but will play with him if he pays her, there is room to offend. What if the man turns around and says that he doesn't find her interesting enough to pay for play, but he will pay her industry wages for menial chores? Do you see how such a statement could be offensive to said woman? I am trying to convey the potential for similar offense to the man. Even though the wording is not as harsh, the underlying sentiment is similar.

Third, I know of a local Burner (of the Burning Man community) who has formed a group for collaborating and helping each other on home improvement projects. Members of that group gather to work on a project at someone's house in a round robin fashion over the course of several months. It would be odd for someone to post about commercial home improvement services in that group.

Indeed I have seen vitriolic posts directed at professionals that were very unfair. From this observation, and comments I have seen on some profiles, I can imagine that some get offensive emails sent to them due to mentioning professional services in profile or responses. I think part of the issue is that CollarMe is perceived to be a place for personals (how much it is or not leaves room for debate), and an attempt to use it to find business might create the same effect as I describe in the home improvement example above. Recently I have been reflecting on what would help lessen the distance or soften the attitude between the hostile segment of the lifestyle community and professional dommes and this idea--to be careful about how they are projecting themselves with respect to seeking business when in venues used for personal relationships--is one that comes to mind.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DommeKeliDallas
If a man is not respectful of me or my time, why would I even consider a relationship with him

What, to you, characterizes being respectful of you and your time?

Cheers,

Sea

< Message edited by undergroundsea -- 6/13/2010 3:14:06 PM >

(in reply to LadyNTrainer)

RE: Why Do So Many Mistresses Want Money First? - 6/13/2010 3:33:42 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: undergroundsea
I think what he is saying is that he would want to see such disclosure in the profile before he decides to write to them.

Fair enough, but most men don't bother reading profiles anyhow.

quote:

Second, if a man contacts a woman for a personal relationship, and she turns around and says that she is not interested in him but will play with him if he pays her, there is room to offend.

The offense can be on both sides, because even though my profile clearly says professional, the majority of the solicitations I receive are on the order of "will you do me for free" or "can I lick your pussy". They get the polite professional boilerplate in return, which basically reiterates that they have contacted a professional and they need to read my profile more thoroughly before deciding whether or not they wish to inquire further.

I have a separate, strictly social profile with no suggestive picture, upon which it states clearly I am seeking friends and gaming buddies. When I had it up here, I still got annoying and explicit sexual solicitations, so I removed it from here and put it up on Fetlife instead.

I've occasionally referred cool folks from here to my social profile on Fet, but I don't habitually do it the other way around as that isn't the point of having a social profile. A guy has to think a certain sort of way and be looking more for friends than a quick kink fix before he's going to be interested in writing someone who lists their age as 90 and their orientation as GQ and in a poly relationship, and who says they're primarily looking for D&D gaming buddies and maybe compatible bisexual geeks for their partner to date.

I can't filter like that on a professional profile, and I don't, because the demographic of client I am seeking is different from the demographic of friends and personal play partners. But neither am I willing to be dishonest with my clients with regards to my personal relationship status and preferences. When they ask, they get an honest answer that I am unlikely to want a personal, non professional relationship with them if they came in on the professional profile and didn't find the social one interesting enough to write. But it is also true that transitioning from a client to a personal play partner is not impossible for the right person. I won't hold out hope to someone who is not the right kind of person however, because it's not really something that someone could or should change to be in a relationship.

_____________________________

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RE: Why Do So Many Mistresses Want Money First? - 6/13/2010 8:48:59 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JhonDean
Why would you want to change someone’s appearance, were you ashamed to be seen with them?
I would further ask, what credentials you possess establishing you the ultimate authority on male attire and grooming? You see there is an arrogance there making the assumption I am dominant and therefore know more then you about how you should project yourself, or how you handle your money or what you say think or feel. I reject that arrogance and find nothing dominant in that assumption.

Umm, I don't claim to be an authority on male grooming, but I know what *I* like! Of course I wouldn't date someone who I was completely unattracted to, or ashamed to be seen with. I don't mind some chest hair, but I dated a switch with fairly heavy chest hair and a mildly hairy back, and did ask him to trim it back while we were dating. Trimming certain other areas on a man can make certain activities a lot easier and more fun, and none of the men I've been in relationships objected to a polite request about it. They appreciated similar efforts from me.

Almost all of the guys I've dated love long hair, and specifically requested I not cut it beyond a minor trim, and I had no objection to complying. Dominance has nothing to do with it, this is just "looking good for your partner" basics. I rarely wear high heels, but would be happy to for someone I was dating who loved that look, during play, or potentially at other times if they were appropriate. I can't really run in heels, though I can dance in some.

I'm very active, and prefer dating people who are as well, or who are willing to become more active. My former submissive and two tops I dated both asked for my support in their decision to lose weight, so I did help them come up with workout plans after they consulted their respective doctors. I also helped them with food shopping and coming up with other ideas, and all of them were able to make progress they were happy about. None of them were heavy enough for their build that I was unattracted to them, but they wanted to look and feel their best, for me, and themselves.

(in reply to JhonDean)

RE: Why Do So Many Mistresses Want Money First? - 6/13/2010 11:27:26 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

I think one of the challenges femdoms have is that there's an existing stereotype and fantasy that is as difficult to change as the "femdom from porn" caricature. And that stereotype or fantasy is that femdoms desire domination indiscriminately; part of their appeal is that they have a drive to dominate men unconditionally. Part of the fantasy for some men, I think, is that they are free from the responsibility of the challenge of attracting, courting and keeping the interest of the possible femdom mate; they merely must cross the path, and the femdom takes over.

Or, that the sub male may be willing/eager to conform, adapt, change, improve - but only under the said guidance of such a lady. As soon as she tells him to, he will adjust his eating, his clothing, his grooming. After all, she is in charge. If he could only get her to meet him.

What I continually tell submissive men who ask me for advice regarding how to find a relationship is this: Finding, attracting and keeping the interest of a dominant woman is the same as a vanilla woman, but more challenging. While dominant women do pursue, and enjoy pursuing, you still have to put all the effort into attracting and engaging, and sharing in the process.

Connecting with a femdom is not a shortcut or quick detour from the expense and challenge of courting simply because she's a femdom.

Akasha

Well, as a male Dominant I'll very happily dominate anyone and everyone that will let me. That doesn't mean it is going to be sexual, but any chance to be in charge I am going to enjoy. Just part of how I am wired. I would be overjoyed to have some fat ungroomed sub transform herself under my guidance into a sleek lil sexkitten. Mind you it's never happened, the times I have tried it she gets upset that I don't like her for who she is. My point though is that I don't think I am that atypical, and it may be easier for male subs to project the sort of persona they'd have if they were dominant onto a femDom rather than the sort of personality that is actually there.

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Why Do So Many Mistresses Want Money First? - 6/14/2010 3:47:48 AM

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quote:

I'm very active, and prefer dating people who are as well, or who are willing to become more active. My former submissive and two tops I dated both asked for my support in their decision to lose weight, so I did help them come up with workout plans after they consulted their respective doctors. I also helped them with food shopping and coming up with other ideas, and all of them were able to make progress they were happy about. None of them were heavy enough for their build that I was unattracted to them, but they wanted to look and feel their best, for me, and themselves.

The operative words are "they ask for your opinions and help." You responded treating them with dignity and respect.
I suspect a genuine interest in their overall well-being is what set you apart from the indoctrinated and internalized sarcastic arrogant mindset of most females perceiving themselves dominant.

(in reply to Andalusite)

RE: Why Do So Many Mistresses Want Money First? - 6/14/2010 6:44:08 AM

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♫somebody sounds bitter.....♫

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RE: Why Do So Many Mistresses Want Money First? - 6/14/2010 6:44:26 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JhonDean

quote:

I'm very active, and prefer dating people who are as well, or who are willing to become more active. My former submissive and two tops I dated both asked for my support in their decision to lose weight, so I did help them come up with workout plans after they consulted their respective doctors. I also helped them with food shopping and coming up with other ideas, and all of them were able to make progress they were happy about. None of them were heavy enough for their build that I was unattracted to them, but they wanted to look and feel their best, for me, and themselves.

The operative words are "they ask for your opinions and help." You responded treating them with dignity and respect.
I suspect a genuine interest in their overall well-being is what set you apart from the indoctrinated and internalized sarcastic arrogant mindset of most females perceiving themselves dominant.

Wow...Fort Myers must be a very different place because I have yet to meet any of those Dommes with that indoctrinated and internalized sarcastic arrogant mindset you describe. Further, you seem to think that "most" Dominant Females are this way...I have met quite a few lifestyle Dominant Females...at clubs...at munches...at kinky camping events...and at a national conference...they are certainly a snapshot of their own diversity...but they are not these cardboard cutouts that you describe here.

I would prescribe more actual experience and less postulating from a place of none. Your total ignorance and lack of any real life experience is showing JD...

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RE: Why Do So Many Mistresses Want Money First? - 6/14/2010 6:56:38 AM

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agreed.

generalisation is the calling card of inexpirence.

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RE: Why Do So Many Mistresses Want Money First? - 6/14/2010 8:46:06 AM

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In general, I identify as switch rather than dominant. However, I would not take on someone as a submissive unless they were willing to give me actual authority over non-kinky aspects of their life as well as topping them. My femsub playpartner does some service-oriented things, and we react to each other with a D/s connection, but she is married (her husband is fine with what we do), so I don't feel that I can or should be in charge of her day-to-day life.

Things like weight loss are very touchy. If someone didn't attract me for that reason, I just wouldn't date him in the first place, so I probably wouldn't set up a workout schedule for him unless he asked. I might ask or tell (depending on the dynamic) him to come dancing or hiking with me, or even come and work out with me, because I think it is fun to do physically active things together.

They didn't ask for my opinion on the trimming part, but they didn't have any objection either. In general, I prefer people who are pretty easy-going and reasonable, and who want to be attractive for me, and I do the same for them.

Nothing wrong with flogging someone while wearing bunny slippers, no makeup, or even if my hair is all wild once in a while if I've just woken up or something, but I generally make an effort to look and smell good. I expect the same from him.

I disagree that most Dominants have the mindset you describe. I respect most of the ladies here a great deal, and I think that most of them are generally pretty positive. Some have mindsets that wouldn't work for me, either to submit to someone who felt that way, or to adopt it into my own approach, but it is interesting to learn how they think and how their dynamics work.

< Message edited by Andalusite -- 6/14/2010 8:48:36 AM >

(in reply to MissAsylum)

RE: Why Do So Many Mistresses Want Money First? - 6/14/2010 8:48:21 AM

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Fort Myers? Srsly? Wow... I have actually visited there, and gotten to know scene folks from there and Naples. Hm.

Now, there was (is?) a ClubFEM chapter in that area that's all fem superiority horse hockey... but hardly an indicator of all the femdoms in Florida.

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RE: Why Do So Many Mistresses Want Money First? - 6/14/2010 9:00:41 AM

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Joined: 5/20/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andalusite
I prefer people who are pretty easy-going and reasonable, and who want to be attractive for me, and I do the same for them. Nothing wrong with flogging someone while wearing bunny slippers, no makeup, or even if my hair is all wild once in a while if I've just woken up or something, but I generally make an effort to look and smell good. I expect the same from him.

That would about cover it for me, too. Personally I prefer having hair "down there", but my secondary partner eroticizes the shaved appearance and my primary thinks it's hot to do the shaving, so I let them conspire to style my private parts whenever and however they like.

Wearing latex and rubber is uncomfy and not my thing, but I'll put up with it because my secondary has a fetish collection of the stuff and thinks it's hot when I indulge him and model some of it. We choose to be attractive for each other and we're willing to work at it because we enjoy turning each other on.

That's part of what makes any human relationship work, let alone a D/s one. In our case some of it is tied into the D/s dynamic of wanting my boys to be eye candy for me, but some of it is just the simple human factor of wanting to be hot to our partners and keep the spark alive.

_____________________________

Your dominant Personal Trainer for fitness and body shaping in the lifestyle. Let my fetish be your motivation.

(in reply to Andalusite)

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