RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist?

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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/28/2010 12:27:48 AM

GotSteel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
Furthermore, he really lacks a grasp of what Evolution Theory is about if he thinks as he says "it is that many things happen in just the right order on their own.." The man has little grasp of the concept.

I think he was talking about how life came to exist on this planet, unless I missed it I don't think he's mentioned anything about how life evolved from there.

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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/28/2010 12:33:59 AM

GotSteel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
As with "trust", faith involves a concept of future events or outcomes, and is used conversely for a belief "not resting on logical proof or material evidence."[3][4] Informal usage of the word "faith" can be quite broad, and may be used in place of "trust" or "belief."

Since i was using the term in the broader sense, this page is quite acceptable.

So you want to use the word faith when trust or belief would be noticeably less ambiguous, I'm wondering why?

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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/28/2010 12:55:21 AM

tazzygirl

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If you recall correctly, i wanted to define faith and belief.

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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/28/2010 5:27:17 AM

GotSteel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
If you recall correctly, i wanted to define faith and belief.

Well, I wouldn't use it as a synonym for trust, doing so doesn't get you anything since you can just say trust instead and does create all sorts of ambigeuity.

Belief.....that's another whole can of worms.

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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/28/2010 10:05:47 AM

tazzygirl

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No, not Belief... belief... as in the belief that i have my keys in my pocket... but i have no faith... not Faith... that i do because i have a bad habit of forgetting my keys.

And both of these can be considered with a view of trust or lack of.

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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/28/2010 2:04:14 PM

Moonhead

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Do metaphors tied to something that can be proven one way or the other in the physical world (that is, the evil God who opposes the forces of light's creation) really work in this context? I'd suspect that they don't, and the analogy is stretching a bit if you can prove that you either have or don't have your keys.

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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/28/2010 2:10:30 PM

tazzygirl

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I have faith in my memories, one day i may not remember quite so well.

I believe i always have my keys, but i have learned to check before locking the door because i have also realize that i sometimes forget.

Again, why is everyone trying to insist in speaking of a faith in religion or god when i use that term? or when i use belief?

My point was, and still is, that they both have real, everyday uses that are in no way linked to spirituality.

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RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/28/2010 2:20:11 PM

Moonhead

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In which case, neither belief nor faith has any place in a discussion about God.

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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/28/2010 2:20:21 PM

tnai

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Plasticine

And I am saying that despite your very reserved and polite demeanor you are taking the position of "philosophical asshole". Your stance is about as intolerant as possible. Is intolerance a virtue in your religion?

Even the worst arguments in this thread have been made by some attempt to reference objective reality. You are basically claiming that another worldview is entirely invalid because it is in mild contradiction to yours. That is a terrible argument.

Whether you realize it or not you are the poster child for this thread's OP.

Once agian with the personal attacks. I really do fail to see how my religious views, tolerance (or lack of), how polite I am (or am not), est. have nothing to do with my claim. Say I even grant you that everything you said about everything - there not being a God, scietific theory, my reading habbits, what I am a poster child for, my personal flaws, my lack of understanding of the other side, and various short comings are all correct. Further they were expressed by you in the best possible terms, in the best possible order. How do they disprove my claim about why those who belive in God may fall victim to the Straw Man Fallacy, or shed any new light on the arguments at hand? I do feel that since you are unable to address my orgianl claim that you feel comfortable with you are resorting to character assination.

I'm claiming that when people take a world view that face value seems just plain silly to they don't worry about the Straw Man Fallacy. As to if it should seem silly or not, it would be another series of arguments. If you have another reason that those who belive in God would fall victim of the Starw Man Fallacy, and can bring this up without further personal attacks please do so. Other then that I'm not overly concerned with what you think about me as a person.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

So what`s so bad about atheism?

It`s not anti-theism or anti-anything.

Like apolitical,it means no elegance or dog in the fight.Apolitical aren`t against others over their politics and most folks don`t hold an apolitical`s neutrality against them, either.

So why are some theists, so threatened by atheists?

I think whats bad about them is the samething bad about any group, many of them are jerks who live in a knee jerk reaction and aren't very polite. I also think that any group feel threatened by any group that has a polar disagreement.

< Message edited by tnai -- 6/28/2010 2:25:01 PM >

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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/28/2010 2:21:01 PM

tazzygirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

In which case, neither belief nor faith has any place in a discussion about God.

Wrong, its a different form of faith/belief.

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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/28/2010 2:33:22 PM

Moonhead

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

In which case, neither belief nor faith has any place in a discussion about God.

Wrong, its a different form of faith/belief.

If there's no commonality between the use of the terms, then you need to be using different terms. Sorry. Daleks might have had very easy physics lessons, but measuring everything in Rels isn't helpful.

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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/28/2010 2:35:35 PM

Moonhead

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Pissing collarme. Where are these useless cunting moderators when they're not fucking about removing posts for no good reason?
Sort out your messageboard database, you sorry twats.

< Message edited by Moonhead -- 6/28/2010 2:44:15 PM >

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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/28/2010 2:41:11 PM

tazzygirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

In which case, neither belief nor faith has any place in a discussion about God.

Wrong, its a different form of faith/belief.

If there's no commonality between the use of the terms, then you need to be using different terms. Sorry. Daleks might have had very easy physics lessons, but measuring everything in Rels isn't helpful.

You are deliberately being argumentative on this issue. There are many forms of faith, many forms of belief... many different levels of each.

Again, my point was, and still is, that a person can have faith or belief in something and not be accused of being religious.

A religious person can have faith or belief in god and not be an atheist.

It all depends on what your faith or belief is in, doesnt it.

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/28/2010 2:43:42 PM

Moonhead

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

In which case, neither belief nor faith has any place in a discussion about God.

Wrong, its a different form of faith/belief.

If there's no commonality between the use of the terms, then you need to be using different terms. Sorry. Daleks might have had very easy physics lessons, but measuring everything in Rels isn't helpful.

You are deliberately being argumentative on this issue. There are many forms of faith, many forms of belief... many different levels of each.

Again, my point was, and still is, that a person can have faith or belief in something and not be accused of being religious.

A religious person can have faith or belief in god and not be an atheist.

It all depends on what your faith or belief is in, doesnt it.

Maybe it's just me, but there's a bit of a difference between faith in your door keys (which you know to exist, whether or not they're in your bag) and faith in God (who you don't, and has never opened your front door for you). Those are two pretty different concepts, surely?

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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/28/2010 2:46:43 PM

tazzygirl

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Not different. religious faith is a subset of faith.

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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/28/2010 2:50:13 PM

Moonhead

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Not different. religious faith is a subset of faith.

Really? And there was me thinking that for the religious, everything else in existence is secondary to God.

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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/28/2010 2:52:03 PM

tazzygirl

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I consider myself a religious person and i dont believe that. Seems many who arent religious tend to stereotype. Many of us do not fit into neat little boxes created for us by others.

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/28/2010 2:54:54 PM

LadyCimarron

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Maybe it's just me, but there's a bit of a difference between faith in your door keys (which you know to exist, whether or not they're in your bag) and faith in God (who you don't, and has never opened your front door for you). Those are two pretty different concepts, surely?

True. But there is very little difference between having faith in your partners fidelity (which you cannot see) and having faith in a deity (which you also cannot see). In fact one could pose the argument that your "confidence or trust" that there is no God takes the same kind of faith as a God believers "confidence or trust" that there is a God.

FAITH
–noun
1. confidence or trust in a person or thing: faith in another's ability. 2. belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact. 3. belief in god or in the doctrines or teachings of religion: the firm faith of the Pilgrims. 4. belief in anything, as a code of ethics, standards of merit, etc.: to be of the same faith with someone concerning honesty. 5. a system of religious belief: the Christian faith; the Jewish faith. 6. the obligation of loyalty or fidelity to a person, promise, engagement, etc.: Failure to appear would be breaking faith. 7. the observance of this obligation; fidelity to one's promise, oath, allegiance, etc.: He was the only one who proved his faith during our recent troubles. 8. Christian Theology . the trust in God and in His promises as made through Christ and the Scriptures by which humans are justified or saved.

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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/28/2010 2:55:08 PM

Moonhead

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I consider myself a religious person and i dont believe that. Seems many who arent religious tend to stereotype. Many of us do not fit into neat little boxes created for us by others.

And many of you do. There's a fair few (that bin laden sort springs to mind for a start) who are hellbent on building their own boxes and dumping everybody else in one marked "infidel", come to that.
This isn't just a jihad thing. There's plenty of Catholics who believe that God is above all earthly concerns, and a lot of baptists take that one for granted as well.

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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/28/2010 3:07:33 PM

tazzygirl

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Taking your example, i can say that all atheists believe there is no god because a few who state they are atheists and believe such do exist.

Is this really the way you want to go?

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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