quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

that is harsh truth that many will deny, but it is truth nonetheless. Jefff's comments about "strength requiring strength" bothered me so much because it is such a popular lifestyle myth that it takes a big bad "dom" to tame the wild, bratty, take-no-guff "sub." when the reality is that a strong Dominant man is not going to entertain such a "sub" at all. and it's been my observation over the years, on and offline, that many of those who are willing to entertain such subs do so because they are insecure in their dominance, they do not fully "own" it, so they need the constant affirmation which comes from the submission of a bratty-type. moreover, they are horrified at the level of responsibility and control required to actually dominate someone, as opposed to simply catering to the whims and desires of someone else. it is also not a sign of strength or dominance, imo, to desire to engage in battles of will and authority, or to feel the need to prove oneself to someone so they will bend to you.

Popular lifestyle myth? According to whom?

A strong Dominant will entertain whatever he desires to entertain. I know many who enjoy a willfull girl, if for nothing else than to tame her... as someone else pointed out... "The Taming of the Shrew"

Your comment before this mentioned you rarely venture out into the public scene, yet you speak like you are an authority. Makes me wonder.

Why is it discussion like this end up in one group of "submissives" dragging another group of "submissives" into the mudhole? Do you need to do that to make yourself feel better?

In all honesty, the only "correct" answer for all this is really simple....

A man will have what he desires. What he doesnt desire, he will get rid of. If he allows such behavior, he must enjoy it, on some or any level. After all, isnt that one of the purposes of being submissive to a man (or woman) is to give them pleasure?

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it's a popular lifestyle myth, if one even casually observes the online community such as this one. we have had countless threads here on collarme not merely praising bratty types, but proclaiming that such behavior is a sign of strength, that dominants who appreciate such behavior are somehow stronger than other dominants, and of course that there is no value in submission which comes "easy." these ideas are not expressed as opinions or (more accurately) as preferences, but as irrefutable myths. it gets old. it gets tiring. and unfortunately these same ideas are reflected in the public scene.

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ORIGINAL: ranja

it seems to me that us brats do like a bit of bashing at times

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ORIGINAL: RealSub58

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f the submissive is of a bratty type, or has attention-seeking issues or is prone to disobedience, the dominant has to exhibit whatever tools at their disposal to achieve this goal. If this goal cannot be achieved, then either the dominant was not strong enough, or the submissive is possibly untrainable or doesn't really wish to submit. Certainly a little of both could be the case.
I REALLY do appreciate this comment.  There are times when I have issues here at home that I allow to creep into my mood and Sir can hear it in my voice.  I now think it might be an unconcious attention/sympathy seeking on my part.  But I am not bratty or disrespectful.  If I am even the tiniest bit  disrespectfull, I hear it in his voice.

This is actually the way I was hoping my OP discussion would proceed.

I attempted to discontinue the derailment, but I didn't succeed.......
(For what it's worth, the distractions I've been experiencing over the last two hours while trying to respond have caused me to believe that I don't like this response but don't know how to answer any other way at the moment. Obviously I'm a bad dom.)

........ tis why I so appreciated the self centric comment in regards to brattiness. 

I had to take a break and re-read my original post.  It did come across a bit holier than thou and that was not my tone while writing it and I never meant to insinuate the huge leap of assumption that a bratty sub is not a good sub.  I wanted to understand brattiness, smart ass behaviour (even self announcement of such in profile with no clarification) or why one uses sarcasm, esp in these forums ( responding to or listening to sarcasm in person is far different for me than reading it or being perceived as sarcastic), on people they have never met and only think they know who the writer is by their on perceived opinions.
My way is more cynical, based on lack of trust, rather than sarcastic. (I hope I have not pissed off or alienated 99% of you all again)

I very much appreciated the strength to strength commentaries.
I do not regret using "thick headed" (tis just a way of saying something culturally) altho a better word to have used, as I see now, could have been "strong."

I really did not appreciate the character bashing as no one on CM except for 2 or 3 (who don't even bother with forums) has ever met me.  I do envy the fact that many here have built up relationships and finally met.  I hope the continued commentaries are are on topic.

BTW, my screen name was given to me.

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ORIGINAL: SirsJewel

! i have seen some pretty nasty unslave like behaviour on here as well

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ORIGINAL: Jeffff

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ORIGINAL: SirsJewel

! i have seen some pretty nasty unslave like behaviour on here as well

Your kidding right?... you have seen unslave like behavior, on the internet?... I am stunned no SHOCKED.......

That anyone would take what is written here by folks who do not belong to other folks as a sign of how submissive they may or may not be.

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"That many doms are scared shitless of any ongoing responsibility so they encourage subs to act up as an excuse to reaffirm the dynamic."

that is harsh truth that many will deny, but it is truth nonetheless. Jefff's comments about "strength requiring strength" bothered me so much because it is such a popular lifestyle myth that it takes a big bad "dom" to tame the wild, bratty, take-no-guff "sub." when the reality is that a strong Dominant man is not going to entertain such a "sub" at all. and it's been my observation over the years, on and offline, that many of those who are willing to entertain such subs do so because they are insecure in their dominance, they do not fully "own" it, so they need the constant affirmation which comes from the submission of a bratty-type. moreover, they are horrified at the level of responsibility and control required to actually dominate someone, as opposed to simply catering to the whims and desires of someone else. it is also not a sign of strength or dominance, imo, to desire to engage in battles of will and authority, or to feel the need to prove oneself to someone so they will bend to you.

quote:


it's a popular lifestyle myth, if one even casually observes the online community such as this one. we have had countless threads here on collarme not merely praising bratty types, but proclaiming that such behavior is a sign of strength, that dominants who appreciate such behavior are somehow stronger than other dominants, and of course that there is no value in submission which comes "easy." these ideas are not expressed as opinions or (more accurately) as preferences, but as irrefutable myths. it gets old. it gets tiring. and unfortunately these same ideas are reflected in the public scene.

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I would hazard a guess that most men prefer a mix of both. Its the mix that may be the difference between the two groups. Note, i said most,, not all.

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ORIGINAL: Jeffff

I know who I am. I know what I am. It is going to take a shitload more than a woman with a brain and the will to use it to change that.

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ORIGINAL: WestBaySlave

I'm sarcastic all the time, but it's rarely aimed at anyone in particular, I just have a very cynical outlook on life and a lot of things amuse me. I'm not very sentimental, I prefer directness to pleasantries, and don't share a lot of the values popular in western culture - this can put me at odds with people at times, but I do my best to be civil with people of every stripe.

That being said, as a sub, I'm pretty much a doormat if I've formed a strong connection to a man. I'm very passive and submissive in temperament, and easy-going to the point that I actually have annoyed some dominants who want a little more resistance to their assertiveness. Men who don't like resistance, by contrast, tend to enjoy that there's no "fight". Everyone has different needs...

I'm not sure, does this mixture of personality traits make me a brat?

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i dislike anyone who gets off on mean-spiritness that hurts another for "sport".

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What i dont get is the unowned, who are looking for the "right one" but act so wrong it isnt funny except to U/us the owned who Know that just wont work

...if you are refering to me being owned or not, I am owned, so the statement is moot in my opinion. 

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ORIGINAL: SirsJewel

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ORIGINAL: Jeffff

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ORIGINAL: SirsJewel

! i have seen some pretty nasty unslave like behaviour on here as well

Your kidding right?... you have seen unslave like behavior, on the internet?... I am stunned no SHOCKED.......

That anyone would take what is written here by folks who do not belong to other folks as a sign of how submissive they may or may not be.

Know how to read? i meant exactly what i said, a slave acting very un-slavelike in general manner,but i can certainly see me a slave being highly annoyed at your lack of a better time then to comment on a quote on such a small part of the comment. i suppose many of us have Masters who like a strong submissive with backbone ~ jewels