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RE: Racist Jokes ? - 6/25/2010 2:26:30 PM   
Moonhead


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Damn. It's too late to add a link to a Frank Sidebottom video, then?

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RE: Racist Jokes ? - 6/25/2010 2:33:15 PM   
splorff


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

Thanks Vincent, but I cant agree that its just whites who cause disharmony


You miss the point. It is not about disharmony. It is about denigration and dehumanization, imo, to more easily feel superior to the group at the butt of the joke, as was mentioned earlier by Lady C, I think.


I see your point Vincent, but violence is about disharmony and denigration as well as other things. And black foks do that stuff too. There are many instances of black on white violence. And to simply avoid that, while presenting white on black crime whether historical or present is misleading to your reader. It also raises the possibility that you have an agenda.

Lets be fair here.

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RE: Racist Jokes ? - 6/25/2010 2:38:34 PM   
mnottertail


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyCimarron
I have to get ready to go to a voluntary, mandatory business dinner party, that has no reflection on my upward mobility with the company, BUT as a positive member of the organization, the management strongly advised I attend.  (did you ever have that shotgun wedding feeling)   bye.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVF4r3fLBrU


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RE: Racist Jokes ? - 6/25/2010 2:43:39 PM   
RCdc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: splorff

The joke did not imply only black people wore baggy pants ! As for the word negro, the joke is 45 years old. That is what black people were called then. Besides, what is wrong with the word negro/negroid. I am a caucoloid, you can tell me a cauco joke if you wish. These words are not offensive, well not in the uk anyway. Is it so in the USA ?

Read it again


I don't have to read it again, and even if I did I'd still find it offensive depending on the context.
Ah...did anyone warn you that I'm a wordwhore? ...the pedant that I am.... I am from the UK - I have NEVER heard the word cauco used in the UK - people would just look at you and think your were mad if you did - caucoloid isn't a word and is not even in the dictionary!
Unless you meant to use the word Caucasoid?  Which isn't restricted to europeans anyhoo but also used for african and asian decent...  It's one of those bizarre myths that it's restricted to persons of white skin.
In anthropology, the term Negroid is for precise identification  - like of bone structure and physical form.  The word Negro however is from the spanish and means 'black' it was used purely to identify skin colour.  It cannot, therefore be compared to the words Caucasoid and Negroid.

the.dark.

< Message edited by RCdc -- 6/25/2010 3:21:29 PM >


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RE: Racist Jokes ? - 6/25/2010 3:32:35 PM   
RCdc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
Or a classic from nine years back:

What was the last thing to go through the mind of a New York stockbroker on a crisp autumn day in 2001?
The radio mast.

I trust that everybody who's been insisting that racist jokes are just a part of life is fine with that one?


It's not racist - unless being a stock broker is suddenly a race?
Im not sure what you are driving at - that because it's not a racist joke then it's funny?

I don't know if it's funny.
It made me go 'ouch that's not good and just hurts'



....but I expect so did the stock broker.

the.dark.

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RE: Racist Jokes ? - 6/25/2010 3:40:37 PM   
Moonhead


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I've heard a few comments, believe it or not, that jokes aimed at Americans are racist. Weird, eh?

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RE: Racist Jokes ? - 6/25/2010 3:47:50 PM   
laurell3


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Haha I click on this thread expecting it to be a borish name-calling contest like many race/fat threads end up being on CM and am pleased to find a page of joking and laughing and MUSIC. Thanks LadyC and Ron!

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RE: Racist Jokes ? - 6/25/2010 3:48:46 PM   
Level


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


What was the last thing to go through the mind of a New York stockbroker on a crisp autumn day in 2001?
The radio mast.

I trust that everybody who's been insisting that racist jokes are just a part of life is fine with that one?


I am.

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RE: Racist Jokes ? - 6/25/2010 3:51:51 PM   
RCdc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

I've heard a few comments, believe it or not, that jokes aimed at Americans are racist. Weird, eh?


I've heard anti american jokes, so yeah, there is racism towards americans.  But I think the main issue of a racist joke is not the intellect or where the person comes from (your typical example being the whole 'englishman, scotsman and irishman jokes) but the colour of a persons skin that it issue - if that makes any sense?  A racist joke picks on a persons race and colour, rather than the idiosyncrasy of people in general.

The joke you told would be 'funny' (I'm saying that loosely) even if you ommited the 'new york' part.  It could be any stock broker from any country of any ethnic make up and it would not change the pun.

The pants one has to have that particular word to make any kind of sense (again, sense is used loosely).

the.dark.

< Message edited by RCdc -- 6/25/2010 3:53:05 PM >


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RE: Racist Jokes ? - 6/25/2010 3:55:01 PM   
Moonhead


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I doubt that it would work without the reference to an event where a lot of stockbrokers got killed, to be honest.

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RE: Racist Jokes ? - 6/25/2010 4:26:52 PM   
RCdc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

I doubt that it would work without the reference to an event where a lot of stockbrokers got killed, to be honest.


All you would have to do is change the context to make it less anti american, unless they are more worried about the event than the person involved.  People who are concentrating on the event are usually unaware that 9/11 was a global event, rather than an american one for sure.  But the joke itself has it's roots in the same as the joke that goes.

Whats the last thing that goes through a rabbits mind when it's hit by a car.
It's arse.
 
Changing a couple of words around, makes it less about the race of the person.  For sure it can be still focused on the event, but you can take the event out and replace it with any manner of references, from Chernobyl to Lockerbie.

Your original -
What was the last thing to go through the mind of a New York stockbroker on a crisp autumn day in 2001?
The radio mast.


Change it to -
What was the last thing to go through the mind of a stockbroker working in New York tower block on a crisp autumn day in 2001?
The radio mast.

 
or to -
What was the last thing to go through the mind of a scotsman in sherwood crescent on a crisp winter day in 1988?
Air traffic.

 
None of them are particularly funny, all are bad taste.  But little to do with racism.
The pants joke is nothing (wouldn't even make sense) without the references it has, however.

the.dark.

< Message edited by RCdc -- 6/25/2010 4:27:50 PM >


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RE: Racist Jokes ? - 6/25/2010 4:38:59 PM   
Moonhead


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It probably was a bad analogy.
Maybe I should suggest a more general anti American joke, then?

After a fortnight on top of the deluge, Noah's ark was starting to ride low in the water due to the accumulation of animal shit in the ark's lower decks. Noah had his sons empty it all over the sides, and nothing further was heard of the shit until Columbus discovered it six thousand years later.

Better? More generally anti American?
(The first version of the stockbroker joke I heard, btw, was a fly hitting a car windscreen...)

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RE: Racist Jokes ? - 6/25/2010 4:47:48 PM   
LadyCimarron


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

It probably was a bad analogy.
Maybe I should suggest a more general anti American joke, then?

After a fortnight on top of the deluge, Noah's ark was starting to ride low in the water due to the accumulation of animal shit in the ark's lower decks. Noah had his sons empty it all over the sides, and nothing further was heard of the shit until Columbus discovered it six thousand years later.

Do you mean the Bahamas, Cuba or Haiti ?   Sorry, couldn't resist the historical reference.

Better? More generally anti American?
(The first version of the stockbroker joke I heard, btw, was a fly hitting a car windscreen...)

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RE: Racist Jokes ? - 6/25/2010 4:50:53 PM   
Moonhead


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Good point. I should have said Vespucci, shouldn't I? Columbus had quite a good run.

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RE: Racist Jokes ? - 6/25/2010 7:19:08 PM   
Elisabella


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


What was the last thing to go through the mind of a New York stockbroker on a crisp autumn day in 2001?
The radio mast.

I trust that everybody who's been insisting that racist jokes are just a part of life is fine with that one?


I am.


So am I.

I heard that joke first about Kurt Cobain though - what's the last thing that went through Kurt Cobain's mind before he died? His teeth.

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RE: Racist Jokes ? - 6/25/2010 7:27:58 PM   
MisterP61


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God I am old   I heard it as what was the last thing to go through Krista McCulloughs mind?  her eyes

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RE: Racist Jokes ? - 6/25/2010 8:46:39 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: splorff


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

Thanks Vincent, but I cant agree that its just whites who cause disharmony


You miss the point. It is not about disharmony. It is about denigration and dehumanization, imo, to more easily feel superior to the group at the butt of the joke, as was mentioned earlier by Lady C, I think.


I see your point Vincent, but violence is about disharmony and denigration as well as other things. And black foks do that stuff too. There are many instances of black on white violence. And to simply avoid that, while presenting white on black crime whether historical or present is misleading to your reader. It also raises the possibility that you have an agenda.

Lets be fair here.


Well fuck yes I have an agenda. I am trying to point out that Colonial/U.S. history and minority status designate the victim GROUP at the butt of institutional racism. It is absurd to suggest any merit to a claim of "reverse racism" in the face of a history of 500 years of black slavery, the horror of the middle crossing, night rider terror against blacks, the Dred Scott Decision, lynchings, prison plantations and chain gangs after the failure of Reconstruction, Jim Crow Laws into Truman's desegregation of the Military, educational discrimination prior to Brown v Topeka Bd of Ed, as well as voting, employment, public facilities, and housing discrimination leading to the 1964 Civil Rights Act.

I have heard blacks make "cracker" jokes or insults and I am aware that some blacks have committed crimes against individuals just because they are white. I have been there both as a kid living in urban housing and as an adult in my profession. i am just trying to point out, splorff, that the scales of history and grievious harm tilt heavily against blacks.

So, what I am saying, and this may outrage you ... any denigrating "joke" made by a white with reference to a black is ipso facto by virtue of the history of outrage committed against blacks a racist joke. I believe the same is true with respect to Jews. Blacks and Jews have each suffered holocaust and have earned the right to be respected. There is no respect in racist jokes. White folk do not have such historical credentials. As a GROUP the historic travails of white christians/atheists pale into insignificance.

Sorry if I am a party pooper, bro. Just the way I see it.

Regards...

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RE: Racist Jokes ? - 6/25/2010 9:34:17 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

So, what I am saying, and this may outrage you ... any denigrating "joke" made by a white with reference to a black is ipso facto by virtue of the history of outrage committed against blacks a racist joke. I believe the same is true with respect to Jews. Blacks and Jews have each suffered holocaust and have earned the right to be respected. There is no respect in racist jokes. White folk do not have such historical credentials. As a GROUP the historic travails of white christians/atheists pale into insignificance.


So because both groups have suffered they are entitled to automatic respect? How much suffering does it require for another group to be admitted into this respect no matter what category?

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RE: Racist Jokes ? - 6/26/2010 2:02:22 AM   
RCdc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

It probably was a bad analogy.
Maybe I should suggest a more general anti American joke, then?

After a fortnight on top of the deluge, Noah's ark was starting to ride low in the water due to the accumulation of animal shit in the ark's lower decks. Noah had his sons empty it all over the sides, and nothing further was heard of the shit until Columbus discovered it six thousand years later.

Better? More generally anti American?
(The first version of the stockbroker joke I heard, btw, was a fly hitting a car windscreen...)


But Bunnies are cuter, which makes it more groan worthy.

the.dark.

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RE: Racist Jokes ? - 6/26/2010 2:47:46 AM   
splorff


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RCdc

I don't have to read it again, and even if I did I'd still find it offensive depending on the context.
Ah...did anyone warn you that I'm a wordwhore? ...the pedant that I am.... I am from the UK - I have NEVER heard the word cauco used in the UK - people would just look at you and think your were mad if you did - caucoloid isn't a word and is not even in the dictionary!
Unless you meant to use the word Caucasoid? Which isn't restricted to europeans anyhoo but also used for african and asian decent... It's one of those bizarre myths that it's restricted to persons of white skin.
In anthropology, the term Negroid is for precise identification - like of bone structure and physical form. The word Negro however is from the spanish and means 'black' it was used purely to identify skin colour. It cannot, therefore be compared to the words Caucasoid and Negroid.

the.dark.


Well I don’t find the joke offensive or derogatory, although someone claims that they did. She then went on to say that she was offended on two counts, firstly, she claimed that the joke implied that only blacks wore baggy pants. The joke did not imply that. Secondly she says she felt offended by my use of the word Negro.

Now the word means black in Spanish as you say. It has of course other qualities. It is short for Negroid. Negroid, Caucasoid and Mongoloid are terms used to distinguish the races in biology. There are those who believe that another two races exist. They believe that the African Bushmen are another, as are the indigenous Australians. But let’s just stick with the first three.

I do not accept that any of these terms are racist or offensive. And I believe that you are wrong in your statement that the word Caucasoid applies equally to Africans and Asians. White Africans, and black Africans are Caucasoid and Negroid respectively.

Now, some Asians are caucasoids, namely those of the Indian subcontinent. There may be others. Other Asians are not Caucasoid, for example those of the Far East, are Mongoloids {orientals}.

I must agree with you I have never heard the word cauco used. I was trying to get her to see that cauco is similar to negro. Perhaps I should have written Cauca, but as you see, it does not sit easily beside negro. I was simply trying to assure her that the word Negro is not offensive, and neither would Cauco, had it in fact existed.

These terms are perhaps a little jaded now. In time others will replace them, and they in turn will offend those who as of yet, are unborn. How silly it all seems to me, that innocent words and terms are held to be offensive, or used to try to obtain some purchase in debate.

.

I do apologise about my spelling mistake, and thank you earnestly for pointing it out to me. Perhaps a word whore such as yourself might like some constructive criticism also.

Wordwhore should have been written word whore. Anyhoo is not a word. The word Europeans should be capitalised, as should African , Spanish and Asian, or at least my word checker thinks so. There are other issues with your missive also, but I can’t be bothered to plough through it all.

So tell me more about your opinion of the context of my use of the word. I sought to show that some racist jokes are in fact, not at all racist. The one I gave was nothing more than a pun, or at least, that is my belief. Perhaps you believe otherwise

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