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RE: What is your test? - 7/18/2010 3:50:04 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andalusite

I don't see how wanting to know whether we have D/s or sexual chemistry, are able to have interesting conversations, and get along with each others' friends is so horrid and unreasonable

I would agree with that. I believe that the cornerstone of the relationship is whether or not you're suited as personalities - and everything unravels from that 'chemistry' first and foremost.

In my experience - you find out more about someone based upon how they act as opposed to what they say. So - for me - I don't have tests as such - I suppose the test is does this person act in a way (over a period of time) that suggests she is going to a good fit for me.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to Andalusite)

RE: What is your test? - 7/18/2010 6:23:40 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andalusite

"Test" is just a hot-button word around here. A lot of people seem to feel that it ought to take months to find out the very basics of compatibility, and anything other than a point-blank question is manipulative. Here's a thread I posted on the subject of things I test for at the beginning of a relationship. I don't see how wanting to know whether we have D/s or sexual chemistry, are able to have interesting conversations, and get along with each others' friends is so horrid and unreasonable, but that was the view of about half the people who responded.

Andalusite,

I happened to see someone quoting your post this morning while preparing coffee and an interesting thought struck my mind. I can't speak for others but I know my approach has changed and while I can attribute some of that to age and experience I think the biggest factor is the failure to romanticize the process. This topic has come up in discussions over the past week and I've noticed an uncanny commonality that I'm probably more aware of due to the lack of attachment to a hoped for outcome. Some men are looking for companions and I don't say that in the negative, but there is an odd peculiarity to their methodology which explains their state quite clearly in my head.

In many respects there's an element of delusion that prevents the fulfillment of his desire. He's aware of differences between the two and ignores them, believing that the desire/need to pair will exceed those things or prompt the individual to look past them. I think that's a fallacy and compromises are made by individual choice rather than idealistic notion that he'll change her mind. I find this most prevalent in men my age demographic and older than those that are younger than myself. The latter usually cuts to the quick as well.

His affinity for her can blind him to the obvious. I've conversed with individuals that have led me to scratch my head and wonder if they're being realistic with themselves about what they're hoping to explore or would engage if permitted. It isn't a matter of a few nuances but a bloody ocean between. Which brings me back to your comment and the idea of testing as a valid part of the selection process. I use a different term and candidly admit my assessment is performed before I make an investment in getting better acquainted. And I don't require months to ascertain if he's a suitable candidate, I'm pretty quick in all truth. I find this is possible if you've hammered down what you're seeking and can distinguish between what's ideal and mandatory in a prospective suitor.

My assessment doesn't engage allowances, but is founded on rational ideas as opposed to emotions. I think the latter can be of detriment when one hasn't determined if real suitability exists. When I encounter those that feel a twinge of disappointment I recognize that expression clearly. It serves as a reminder of what happens when one becomes attached to an idea that hasn't been validated or proven its ability to sustain. It is the notion of the other person paired with their need to have a partner that is speaking. I see it as a falsehood that could readily be set aside if the individual was willing to address it. In a roundabout way they are their biggest hindrance and extend situations that never had the possibility of getting off the ground. The time and energy would have been better invested in a project that showed the possibility of doing such.

~porcelaine

_____________________________

His will; my fate.

(in reply to Andalusite)

RE: What is your test? - 7/18/2010 9:47:44 AM

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~ Fast Reply ~

I'm not a fan of tests, as I believe they are contrived and do not represent what happens in real-life situations. Manipulations to create a given situation to see how the other reacts...to me is just dishonest, and in that case, he would fail my own process of deciding whether or not we should go forward.

There are things I will converse about with the prospective dominant partner, to get to know him, and I might, over time, bring the topic up again to see if his answers are consistent. I suppose that can be viewed as "testing", although I'll tell him I'm seeking clarity on a particular topic.

Porcelaine brought up a point that was very important to me, in getting to know my owner - how does he respond when he is angry? I didn't provoke the man to become angry at me, but I did ask him straight out, how does he handle his anger. How does he handle being angry at work, or with his daughter, or with a friend, or with a woman he loves. We talked about situations and what occurred and how he handled it and why. I asked him what he believes his accountability was in his failed relationships. I asked him all sorts of personal questions about how he handles certain situations and what goes through his mind while doing so.

It wasn't a list of questions, it was just stuff that I'd bring up in conversation because it was genuinely important to me. I didn't consider there to be a "pass" or "fail"; he was simply showing me who he is, as I was showing him who I am.

I also paid attention. How did he treat others? The waiter? The clerk at the store? The homeless guy who came up, asking for money? Etc. His character was of great importance to me. I remember needing to see his home - I needed to know where and how he lived. I remember asking to look into his kitchen cupboards and he watched in amusement as I was checking for "Sleeping With the Enemy" evidence, only to take me by the hand afterwards and show me how his towels were evenly hung in the bathroom, lol. Even his music collection was important to me.

But I don't call any of that a "test" - perhaps because of the connotation in that word. I just see it as getting to know him with the possibility of giving myself to him. It was a pretty important process and decision for me.

Something was said in this thread about doms being arrogant with the attitude of seeing if someone deserves to submit to him. I can understand the point that was made, but also want to say I had the same point of view when getting to know Mr. Man. You see, I had traveled a very long and painful road to finally get to know myself and love myself and want really good things for myself, so you can bet I was going to be very careful about who I was going to give access to myself to. Namely, did he deserve it? And I expected he would have the same attitude with me - "Does she deserve me?" I don't mean this in a Stand-From-The-Mountain-Top-and-Pound-My Chest sort of way. I'm saying we both wanted what was best for ourselves, in seeking new relationships, and felt we deserved more than we had given ourselves in the past. While I realize this isn't where some of the "You must deserve me, you lowly woman" attitudes are coming from, I did want to offer a different perspective.

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.

(in reply to porcelaine)

RE: What is your test? - 7/18/2010 12:54:53 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

Porcelaine brought up a point that was very important to me, in getting to know my owner - how does he respond when he is angry? I didn't provoke the man to become angry at me, but I did ask him straight out, how does he handle his anger. How does he handle being angry at work, or with his daughter, or with a friend, or with a woman he loves. We talked about situations and what occurred and how he handled it and why. I asked him what he believes his accountability was in his failed relationships. I asked him all sorts of personal questions about how he handles certain situations and what goes through his mind while doing so.

NuevaVida,

I suspect that I've been manipulated in the past to respond or do so in a certain manner by a potential suitor. While I recognize it is easy to put our best foot forward, I don't agree with agitating an individual to determine how they behave when angered. That's skidding a line that makes me very uncomfortable. Nonetheless I tolerated it and I can't say that would ever occur again. The end result was self recrimination for behaving inappropriately when the entire situation may have been contrived to create that reaction all along.

However, I'm aware of some submissive women that push the envelope and enrage a prospect to examine his willingness and capability to bring her underhand. I find that approach just as far fetched as the one some dominants utilize. Oftentimes both parties are displaying characteristics of mental and emotional sadism from the dominant and masochism on the submissive side. I recognize force is a staple that some find enticing, including myself. However, my desires are based upon healthy exchange rather than staged outbursts that elicit aggressive realignment from him.

quote:

Namely, did he deserve it? And I expected he would have the same attitude with me - "Does she deserve me?" I don't mean this in a Stand-From-The-Mountain-Top-and-Pound-My Chest sort of way. I'm saying we both wanted what was best for ourselves, in seeking new relationships, and felt we deserved more than we had given ourselves in the past. While I realize this isn't where some of the "You must deserve me, you lowly woman" attitudes are coming from, I did want to offer a different perspective.

Much of the change in approach I've undertaken was the result of the things you've shared. My mistakes were necessary lessons that were eye opening and provided the catalyst for necessary alterations. His want of me is just as important as my desire for him. Making a mediocre selection for the sake of companionship or contorting myself like a gymnast to make it happen is not a valid option. The access you've acknowledge is withheld until I encounter a man worthy of owning and mastering me, in particular someone I can respect and emulate without making unhealthy compromises in the process.

~porcelaine

_____________________________

His will; my fate.

(in reply to NuevaVida)

RE: What is your test? - 7/18/2010 1:24:16 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: porcelaine

However, I'm aware of some submissive women that push the envelope and enrage a prospect to examine his willingness and capability to bring her underhand. I find that approach just as far fetched as the one some dominants utilize. Oftentimes both parties are displaying characteristics of mental and emotional sadism from the dominant and masochism on the submissive side. I recognize force is a staple that some find enticing, including myself. However, my desires are based upon healthy exchange rather than staged outbursts that elicit aggressive realignment from him.

I agree this happens in both directions, and sometimes in some sort of subconscious manner - completely unaware. However, aware or unaware, this does not reflect a healthy exchange in my view. I've done this in the past, when I was in a less than healthy place. These days, I am aware of my thoughts and actions, and why they occur. It is much more liberating for me, and I can experience honest and healthy exchanges as a result. Had Mr. Man consciously or even subconsciously set up scenarios for me to respond to, I believe given my current state of mind, I would become very concerned about unnecessary drama being a part of our relationship.

quote:

Much of the change in approach I've undertaken was the result of the things you've shared. My mistakes were necessary lessons that were eye opening and provided the catalyst for necessary alterations. His want of me is just as important as my desire for him. Making a mediocre selection for the sake of companionship or contorting myself like a gymnast to make it happen is not a valid option. The access you've acknowledge is withheld until I encounter a man worthy of owning and mastering me, in particular someone I can respect and emulate without making unhealthy compromises in the process.

~porcelaine

I realized, back when my ex dropped me yet still wanted to know everything that was going on in my life and have input in it, that "access" was important to me. I remember realizing I had complete control over who got access to me and who did not, and since I had to take ownership of myself back, it was time to be the kind of owner I needed to have. Protecting myself from emotional harm was just as important as protecting myself from physical harm. So, those who caused me distress ceased to have access to me - the door was no longer open for them to do so. I continue this practice even now, and Mr. Man supports it. His access to me was a very slow and gradual process. As I came to learn him and understand him, I slowly came to feel safer opening my door to him. "Test scenarios" would have kept the locks on those doors.

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.

(in reply to porcelaine)

RE: What is your test? - 7/18/2010 3:17:48 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

I agree this happens in both directions, and sometimes in some sort of subconscious manner - completely unaware. However, aware or unaware, this does not reflect a healthy exchange in my view. I've done this in the past, when I was in a less than healthy place. These days, I am aware of my thoughts and actions, and why they occur. It is much more liberating for me, and I can experience honest and healthy exchanges as a result. Had Mr. Man consciously or even subconsciously set up scenarios for me to respond to, I believe given my current state of mind, I would become very concerned about unnecessary drama being a part of our relationship.

I don't think it's always intentional and I had a very bad habit of punishing myself for my imperfections. Situations like the ones referenced merely activated that and it was a very bad head trip. Of course it was my fault because I'm aware of how one should behave. Although that is correct in theory, it doesn't leave much wiggle room for mistakes. And in truth I didn't view my behavior in that manner. I failed and deserved his admonishment. Because of my propensity to withdraw and the beliefs I have regarding the slave's role, it's imperative that I'm interacting with the right person. When I begin making allowances of this nature I know where I'm heading.

Much like you I look at the root cause of my behavior and seek to understand what makes me tick. Acting without consideration was never acceptable, and there are more productive responses that would yield a different outcome. I have a mental impression that serves as a reminder of the importance of articulating myself with a clear head devoid of negative emotional upset when I'm addressing the other party. Especially if those feelings are in relation to him. Replicating the psychological and self flagellation are behaviors I frown on and shy away from altogether. I find I'm happiest when I can say what's bothering me without all the theatrics involved. I want and need the same from him in kind.

quote:

So, those who caused me distress ceased to have access to me - the door was no longer open for them to do so. I continue this practice even now, and Mr. Man supports it. His access to me was a very slow and gradual process. As I came to learn him and understand him, I slowly came to feel safer opening my door to him. "Test scenarios" would have kept the locks on those doors.

Slow and gradual sounds good. I'm very protective of the peace of mind I've obtained. I covet it and the idea of being subjected to someone's chaos or confusion is very unsettling. It's one of the things I look at when making an assessment. If he's in denial about his real self he'll have a hard time providing the guidance I require. I prefer an individual that can recognize his internal conflicts and the inconsistencies they cause. If he runs away from his imperfection he'll probably tear me down about my own. That is usually what occurs. I take care to keep myself away from those that would seek to exploit and amplify my vulnerability in a manner that would prove harmful in the end.

~porcelaine

_____________________________

His will; my fate.

(in reply to NuevaVida)

RE: What is your test? - 7/18/2010 3:21:19 PM

tiggerspoohbear

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A test? Really??? There's that alternate universe again, the one most of us are left out of. Good thing too, I don't think we'd want to live there. It's the local loony bin and the full moon is shining somewhere.

_____________________________

"RABBIT IS GOOD, RABBIT IS WISE".

"I'm a baaa-aaad pussycat".

(in reply to myotherself)

RE: What is your test? - 7/20/2010 9:29:45 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
In my experience - you find out more about someone based upon how they act as opposed to what they say. So - for me - I don't have tests as such - I suppose the test is does this person act in a way (over a period of time) that suggests she is going to a good fit for me.

I agree that chemistry and personality are very important. Most of the "tests" aren't things that have verbal answers per se. I don't think I can ask anything that will tell me if I will react submissively when he gives me an order, hurts me in ways I don't like, and otherwise interact with him. He can tell me in abstract whether or not he's sociable, but until we go to a party and he either talks with people or sits around moping unless I pay attention to him every second, it is difficult to judge whether or not he'd get along with my friends.

NuevaVida, I don't have tests of "are you worthy of being my Dominant/submissive/whatever." It's more "How do I react when you do this? How do you react when I do that? How do we interact together?" Sure, I try to screen obviously incompatible people out before meeting them in person, but a lot of compatibility requires spending time together. I'm open to an egalitarian kinky relationship, but if someone specifically wants me to be their slave, then I need to react submissively toward him, have compatible views on M/s relationships, have reasonably compatible boundaries and expectations of the relationship, and so forth, in addition to the other things that make someone a good fit for me. If I don't respond submissively toward him, then calling him my Master would feel like an outright lie, no matter how perfectly I obeyed him. If I don't, it doesn't mean that he isn't Dominant enough, just that we didn't click that way. So, I need to know that as soon as it's feasible, because it would be pretty crappy for both of us if we fell for each other, but I couldn't offer him the kind of relationship dynamic he needed to be happy and fulfilled.

Porcelaine, I'm pretty flexible and open to different things, but I agree that some people are desperate, or don't stand firm on things that are important to them. I agree that I don't want to waste time on someone who is obviously a poor fit, but I could be (and have been) happy in a lot of different situations. I'm not looking to add any casual playpartners (already have one, and she's great), and I'm not at all interested in a fuckbuddy or someone who is cheating. I might consider a polyfi relationship in just the right circumstances, but I'd prefer not to. BDSM orientation isn't particularly important to me, whereas the way I fit with him does.

(in reply to NorthernGent)

RE: What is your test? - 7/21/2010 6:21:04 PM

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Holy shit, there Gent. Seems like that would lead to a wonderful relationship between you and your homeowner's insurance agent. Not a sub!

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Can you absail down the side of my home....smash your way in through the window.....and make your way to the stove while I try and take your knee caps off with a bazooka......

You can do that.....then you get an interview.

(in reply to NorthernGent)

RE: What is your test? - 7/21/2010 11:05:08 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida
Porcelaine brought up a point that was very important to me, in getting to know my owner - how does he respond when he is angry? I didn't provoke the man to become angry at me, but I did ask him straight out, how does he handle his anger. How does he handle being angry at work, or with his daughter, or with a friend, or with a woman he loves. We talked about situations and what occurred and how he handled it and why. I asked him what he believes his accountability was in his failed relationships. I asked him all sorts of personal questions about how he handles certain situations and what goes through his mind while doing so.

quote:

ORIGINAL: porcelaine
While I recognize it is easy to put our best foot forward, I don't agree with agitating an individual to determine how they behave when angered. That's skidding a line that makes me very uncomfortable. Nonetheless I tolerated it and I can't say that would ever occur again. The end result was self recrimination for behaving inappropriately when the entire situation may have been contrived to create that reaction all along.

This reminded me of a test that a friend of mine uses on all his dates with partner potential (he's gay so he's testing another man). When they go out to a restaurant, he will step away from the table before they have given their order and find they server. He will tip them $20 right then and then ask the server to intentionally mess up his dates order. He does this to see how his date will handle dealing with the situation. My friend is a sneaky bastard... That's why I like him.

(in reply to thornhappy)

RE: What is your test? - 7/22/2010 5:59:25 AM

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A good test is basic communication,to follow through with the things You uphold as a goal to Your sub/slave. To keep Your word with integrity,honesty and most of all honour. Once trust is established the sub/slave will follow the lead willingly,without it he/she wont be happy and the relationship will fail.
Pretesting to me IMHO involves Time. If something is rushed into,there shows overall lack of concern for trust to build and becomes only a sexual relationship. i was afforded many months of individual visits and lessons to learn well. i have recently winessed a new sub not given time and as a result will evedently not learn with the value one is when sex is rushed within say a week.The conditioning a sub/slave requires takes huge investments of knowledge,clear set tasks,and patience. If the sub/slave fails he/she was failed by the Dominate. ~jewels

_____________________________

God grant me the serenity to accept people for who they are and not whom i wish they could be ~ jewels

(in reply to myotherself)

RE: What is your test? - 7/22/2010 6:33:03 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: interlocutor

This reminded me of a test that a friend of mine uses on all his dates with partner potential (he's gay so he's testing another man). When they go out to a restaurant, he will step away from the table before they have given their order and find they server. He will tip them $20 right then and then ask the server to intentionally mess up his dates order. He does this to see how his date will handle dealing with the situation. My friend is a sneaky bastard... That's why I like him.

He's got too much time on his hands.

~porcelaine

_____________________________

His will; my fate.

(in reply to interlocutor)

RE: What is your test? - 7/22/2010 7:46:12 AM

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Sir's jewel, I don't want to take months to find out whether or not I have basic compatibility with someone. Of course, the relationship will deepen over time, but taking 6 months to discover whether or not we have any chemistry just strikes me as absurd, for example. Also, usually when I am looking, I get interest from several people, and need to narrow down my options - sometimes among more than one person who seems they would be wonderful, compatible people. I don't feel it would be fair to keep stringing them along deliberately for an extended time.

(in reply to porcelaine)

RE: What is your test? - 7/22/2010 8:31:59 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andalusite

I don't want to take months to find out whether or not I have basic compatibility with someone.

One of the things I've done to get a quick assessment of a possibility of a relationship is to get into a conversation of the worse aspects of myself and a potential.

If you can't scare the other person off, you might just have something.

Jeff

_____________________________

Know thyself. It's the best gift you can ever give yourself.

(in reply to Andalusite)

RE: What is your test? - 7/22/2010 9:30:48 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andalusite

Sir's jewel, I don't want to take months to find out whether or not I have basic compatibility with someone. Of course, the relationship will deepen over time, but taking 6 months to discover whether or not we have any chemistry just strikes me as absurd, for example. Also, usually when I am looking, I get interest from several people, and need to narrow down my options - sometimes among more than one person who seems they would be wonderful, compatible people. I don't feel it would be fair to keep stringing them along deliberately for an extended time.

I'm starting to wonder if people use that approach because they enjoy the company and the attention he provides. I would devote that time to someone I've already assessed as being a worthwhile investment, but most certainly not a maybe I'm getting to know.

~porcelaine

_____________________________

His will; my fate.

(in reply to Andalusite)

RE: What is your test? - 7/22/2010 9:13:48 PM

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i'm sorry if you thought i said months to get to know a person. That took a few weeks,the basic click had begun intensely,the rest follows the lead. There is no science to things,but a standardized test to me seems shallow overall,and not deserving of alot of peoples time when found to be the case. Poeple as a rule like to treated as individuals not a study IMHO. If there was a specific thing to see reg flagging, it would be not enough interest intially in working hard towards whatever is expected. i loved and still do the time Master's taken with me online,on the phone,or of course my favorite - in person. Many make complicated out of obvious at times and dance the dance of confusion without defining the needs/wants up front early on. Best of luck~ jewels

_____________________________

God grant me the serenity to accept people for who they are and not whom i wish they could be ~ jewels

(in reply to Andalusite)

RE: What is your test? - 7/22/2010 9:21:37 PM

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Have you ever considered a fairly tough task,say in a weeks worth of talking? i had a mentor at one point who would ask me some basic lessons back to see how well i had adapted to our conversations. i very quickly learned how to take notes when being taught things in conversation. It shows great interest in you overall and you can judge the way by say a list of importance it is given back to you ~jewels

_____________________________

God grant me the serenity to accept people for who they are and not whom i wish they could be ~ jewels

(in reply to Andalusite)

RE: What is your test? - 7/22/2010 10:10:14 PM

dovie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mstrjx

If you want to prove you're really worth my time and trouble, then the test should be REALLY worth it.

The Poincaré conjecture.

Jeff

You are late dere Sir...Already solved and um, "he" has a beard. dovie skipping away before she gets the heel.
lol

_____________________________

"Sometimes love is a nice long lick!"

gentle dove with 38's *the kind you shoot with*

(in reply to mstrjx)

RE: What is your test? - 7/23/2010 3:59:52 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dovie

quote:

ORIGINAL: mstrjx

If you want to prove you're really worth my time and trouble, then the test should be REALLY worth it.

The Poincaré conjecture.

Jeff

You are late dere Sir...Already solved and um, "he" has a beard. dovie skipping away before she gets the heel.
lol

<whispers> See, dovie, here's the thing.... Just between you and me. Don't breathe a word of this to anyone, ok?

Sometimes you have to read between the lines of my posts to figure out what I'm REALLY saying. I know, I know. This one only had 2 lines and that's not really a lot to work with there. Sometimes I'm a little too clever for my own good. Work with me here.

Now, a week or so before this particular thread came out I had read (on the internet, because my TV doesn't allow the news to play on it EVER) about this Russian guy with this immense gnarly beard having solved this mathematical enigma. Between the fact that he had refused taking the money for solving the math problem and the name of the problem itself, it stuck in my head.

So, this thread comes out and it seems a little bit ridiculous. If memory serves, I got in on the thread pretty early to post this response. You see, in comedy, timing is EVERYTHING and you can't come into a thread like this two weeks late acting all clever and whatnot. Just a little secret to optimum snarky posting.

So even with the fact that the response was only two lines PLUS you had to do a google search to bring up any articles relating to the content of the Poincare Conjecture, you can see that the whole thing was meant a little tongue-in-cheek because, as we know, the whole notion of tests and whatnot in this environment seems to be a little ridiculous. Hence my post.

So, now you can see a little bit about my methods here. Just our little secret, all right? Now, run along like a good little girl.

<end whisper>

NOTHING TO SEE HERE FOLKS. Just a friendly little conversation.

Jeff

_____________________________

Know thyself. It's the best gift you can ever give yourself.

(in reply to dovie)

RE: What is your test? - 7/23/2010 5:05:15 AM

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if you have chemistry, things in common and you laugh alot - who needs a test?

anyway, things jump out at me if they grate and fairly early on too. besides all of that people change in a relationship quite often and as for the restaurant test how is that even conclusive. if they say nothing and eat the food they didnt order then theyre maybe wanting to be polite and not ruin the evening by making a fuss, which might mean they fail the test because theyre too passive (and considerate) - if they make a fuss and insist on the food theyve asked for that might mean they fail the test because they have an allergy to seafood or theyre perfectionists and ineptitude annoys them, particularly at the prices you have to pay at restuarants these days.

_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

(in reply to mstrjx)

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