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RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post - 8/14/2010 11:15:11 AM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

And of course you know the answer Julia...so why wonder and post about your musings....interesting as they are.

At no point did he say: "I'll take care of you"....so why did she expect it?


Here is the gist of the entire thing... she expected something falsely, she decides after they talk it over if she wants to continue seeing him... pretty damn simple, isn't it? Your first post on this thread heavily attacked her with made up scenarios from your own head, and not even based upon what she had stated. You made wild assumptions and even called her names... for crying out loud. In my experience with men I involve myself with this would never happen. If it did I would kick myself in the ass for being a terrible judge of character and move on from there.

Yeah, she failed to communicate her "expectations", he failed to respond in the way his lover needed him to. She decides to tell him "Buh Bye, I prefer more caring people"... he goes on to find someone who will accept his lack of emotional wherewithal to be a kind and caring partner...

I have already said the above in several different ways, I am engaging in dead horse beating at this point... which is tiresome to me and to anyone reading me... I just wanted to add this.... I find it interesting that people who never experienced subspace or a loss of physical control or ability to motate because of a physical response to play would be so nonchalant about it. How would you feel if your lover came in and asked for a glass of water, was actually experiencing some sort of spinal damage or internal injuries and never woke up after you told them "get your own damn drink of water, Bitch"? How would you even fucking know unless you checked them? I hope you consider this just in case of some random happenstance you end up in this exact same scenario, the only difference is your lover was really damaged and not just in deep subspace...

Oh, as someone that has been deep in subspace, sometimes I don't feel pain like normal people, and sometimes I can't hardly talk. And I have been hurt because of this. I am thankful the man topping me was always looking at my eyes, feeling my pulse, etc etc etc.... to see where I was. I find a top that would be so dismissive to be kinda scary to be honest



< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 8/14/2010 11:17:04 AM >


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RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post - 8/14/2010 12:30:27 PM   
sirsholly


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quote:

That's Cute holly, you really need to re-read the FIRST Post, and you will see why NEITHER of those things were possible.

look up the general definition of shock and you will see neither was probable, but both possible.

quote:

What you are suggesting is that a child should be taken to the Doctor when they Sneeze.
Bull. But i do suggest if a child or anyone presents as a potential risk for something more serious developing, precautions should be taken.

quote:

By the Time Hypoglycemia has taken place, a cookie isn't going to do shit
I am not an advocate of cookies/sugar laden carbs. Hypoglycemia can be a process...worsening with time. But with most it is reversible... one simple glass of juice can stop it.
I am not a diabetic, but i do have hypoglycemic episodes on occasion. So do you. So does everyone. Think of the 2pm wall you feel like you walk into while at work. THAT is a usually a drop in the blood sugar level. One does not have to be diagnosed as hypo/hyperglycemic to have a drop in their glucose levels. It can happen to anyone.

quote:

As for Hypotension..... she walked from the play party to the room...
Again...something that can worsen with time. Fluids can increase the blood pressure. And even if it does not worsen, hypotension can cause cardiac arrythmia. It happens to all of us at times, generally without our knowledge. We drink something because we are thirsty, the blood volume increases, and off we go without a second thought. The key is fluids.


Look QSM...the fact is she never was in sub space before and he knew that, so he really had no clue how she would react, did he? Nor did she, for that matter.

I am not saying he should have stayed up all night, monitoring her vitals every 15 minutes. The fact is, sub space IS a form of shock and hypoglycemia and hypotension can and do result. One 12 oz glass of water to increase the blood volume/blood pressure, followed by one small glass of juice to prevent a drop in the blood sugar levels...thats  all it takes. Then just keep an eye on her for 10 or 15 minutes. Thats it.

It is SSC. If you are going to play, know how to treat sub space before it occurs. And before you say it...i KNOW it was not him who caused her to be in sub space, but the fact is, he did assume the role of a top with her and his other lady in the past so he should have been aware of her need for fluids.

< Message edited by sirsholly -- 8/14/2010 12:40:42 PM >


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RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post - 8/14/2010 12:32:20 PM   
LadyPact


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I'd like to ask a few questions regarding this thread.  Perhaps there are some folks who would be interested in answering them.

I've noticed some comments that come down to "you've obviously not experienced sub space".  Am I correct in thinking that at least some folks do not believe that some of us who top do not hit the equivalent?  The can't move, can't articulate, literally walking into walls if we've gone deep type?  Do people not think that we become just as dehydrated, need the snack, and all of the other stuff that comes with post scene preferences if we have played hard?

I'm also wondering why folks are equating the boyfriend to the top?  The top who actually played with her was the one who had the first hand knowledge.  Not only of the events that got her that deep in space, but also had the experience to deal with.  It seems to Me that if she didn't know what she would be like, there's no way for him to know since he's not the one who plays that hard. 

Has it occurred to anyone else that at least part of what she wanted wasn't accessible to the boyfriend at all?  During this conversation, it's been mentioned about not just the water, but also the cookie.  Was he supposed to go downstairs from the hotel room back to the play area to get it for her?  Unless they had snacks in the room, there was no way for him to win this one.  Either go downstairs to get cookies or stay and cuddle with her.  Personally, I've been to a lot of multiple day events.  I bring junk food because I know what kind of top space I get into.  (Usually because I'm already hyped up because I'm at an event and that tends to make Me more excited and go further.)

Would anybody have felt differently about the aftercare issue if she went to a play party across town and he stayed home?  Even in the same hotel, they really were in two different locations.  If she had been across town, would it have made a difference? 

One last one.  Lots of folks on this thread have said they would have provided the aftercare to someone they didn't scene with.  For those who have done this during a play party, how did you walk the tightrope of doing what has been called the "humane" thing, and those situations where a bottom that you didn't play with who may not want aftercare?  You just happened to see them post scene in deep space.


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RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post - 8/14/2010 12:39:34 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

I've noticed some comments that come down to "you've obviously not experienced sub space".  Am I correct in thinking that at least some folks do not believe that some of us who top do not hit the equivalent?  The can't move, can't articulate, literally walking into walls if we've gone deep type?  Do people not think that we become just as dehydrated, need the snack, and all of the other stuff that comes with post scene preferences if we have played hard?


I think that there is a difference between exerting one's self and suffering nerve damage in your hands, or a concussion from being face slapped too hard, or having a spinal injury from impact play or being tied up incorrectly. I think if someone wonders in from play, tells you they are not well perhaps you OWE them to make sure they aren't injured. I think it is rather much that people who top others are stating they don't owe someone they are involved with that... yes.

quote:

I'm also wondering why folks are equating the boyfriend to the top?


She stated he had topped her in the past, so I am assuming he is a top



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RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post - 8/14/2010 12:40:07 PM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Yeah, she failed to communicate her "expectations"



So she did....

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

he failed to respond in the way his lover needed him to.



You acknowledge she didn't sort it out upfront....but persist with the idea he should pander to her whims after the event. Why?

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RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post - 8/14/2010 12:41:26 PM   
nephandi


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Greetings

quote:

Another EXCELLENT reason why she should have made damn sure she clearly stated what she expected from her partner before running off to play with someone else without him being there.


Exactly and this is the core of the whole problem. Yes the man was cold if you are going completely by the OP's description and I would not have done it like that. However the OP never told him what she expected of him. It is like if I go out and do a ritual, I am an occultist and after very involving rituals I get so drained of energy I can hardly stand, that is okey my free companion helps me, but if I did not tell him he might have to help me like that a given night he would not be to happy about me just dropping it on his hands. It all boils down to comunication, and in this case the lack of comunication.

I wish you all well.


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RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post - 8/14/2010 12:46:43 PM   
Andalusite


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AQSM, if someone has a migraine, they are very unlikely to die or have serious injury from it.  At the time, they need to stay in the dark, need it to be quiet, maybe need to *not* cuddle or interact with anyone, and will have difficulty getting food or anything to drink.  Sure, she's medically fine, but she did need some care at the time.  He didn't explicitly promise aftercare, but she wasn't demanding anything that required a huge amount of effort on his part.  I wouldn't want to date anyone who so much didn't give a crap about me that he would begrudge getting me a glass of water or an extra blanket, and wanted me to be uncomfortable until I fell asleep.  Again, the actions the night of were less of a concern than his saying the next day that he planned not to take care of her in the future.  For me, that would be a dealbreaker. 

Nephandi, she did say that her friends came into the room and talked with her boyfriend before leaving, rather than dropping her off in the hall.
quote:

ORIGINAL: newprofile2010
My friends DID come in with me. I should probably go back and edit the OP to clarify. They called my boyfriend, walked me to the elevator, rode up with me, helped me totter down the hallway, and then came IN the room to hand me physically to my boyfriend. They chatted for a moment, handed over my shoes, then they went to their own rooms with their last vision of me standing in the hotel room with my bf's arm around me.


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RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post - 8/14/2010 12:48:32 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Yeah, she failed to communicate her "expectations"



So she did....

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

he failed to respond in the way his lover needed him to.



You acknowledge she didn't sort it out upfront....but persist with the idea he should pander to her whims after the event. Why?


You persist in only addressing ancillary parts of my post to you...

Scenario for you, NG

You go out to a BDSM convention with your lover. You guys are ploy so you have expectations of playing with others. You never discuss the aftercare situation with them, so your partner comes back and she stumbles in barely able to talk... croaks out "Im thirsty and I don't feel well", seems to have trouble with her coordination... what do you do?

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RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post - 8/14/2010 12:53:29 PM   
juliaoceania


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fast reply

anyone who came into my presence spilling water, seeming unwell, I would want to make sure that person was okay. People have strokes, heart attacks, and other issues all the time, if someone seems unwell CHECK THEM.

I guess I have baggage around this issue, I was 13 when my father died, and I spent the last day of his life with him. He was sick in bed. I never checked him because I had no idea he had a heart attack. People, if you care about others it aint much to ask you get your heads out of your ass and not think about your own damn self for 5 minutes... if you think it can't happen to you, that you could ignore the symptoms of someone you love being in trouble and needing your help, think again

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RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post - 8/14/2010 12:57:52 PM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andalusite

I wouldn't want to date anyone who so much didn't give a crap about me that he would begrudge getting me a glass of water or an extra blanket, and wanted me to be uncomfortable until I fell asleep. 



It's a principle and a statement of the how the relationship sits. The fact he wasn't particularly interested in looking after her that night doesn't mean he doesn't care about her. What it means is that he didn't feel obliged on that particular occasion. And every time he panders to her because she says she needs it or is dehydrated or whatever then he may as well become her personal assistant.

Dress it up as you like.....but she chose to go elsewhere for her enjoyment....so seek comfort from that same place...simple. But that's not how she wanted it.....she wanted to go and ejoy herself and then go to her 'boyfriend' for comfort......life's not like that....life's not a situation where you're gonna get what you want because you feel you deserve it due to your rationalisation of the situation. I think she did very well out of it....many a man would have said: "deep subspace?!...yeah well dream yourself over towards the tap...you'll be all right".

And the prrof is in the pudding....she's alive to the tell the tale.....so no matter how you say 'deep sub space' supersedes all else.....she coped...with or without his help.

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RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post - 8/14/2010 1:00:42 PM   
AQuietSimpleMan


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Holly,

My analogy about the sneeze is exactly what you are doing. Hypoglycemia is not as heavy duty as you think it is, this is coing from a Diabetic who has glucose tabs with him no matter where he goes. I have been driving and had to pull into a McDonalds for a Orange Juice. The point is I know I can drive there, so what the OP is describing ISN'T Hypoglycemia, and in most ALL cases of Hypoglycemia and ever Hyperglycemia going to Sleep is rarely an issue. The OP did not state that she is Diabetic, I am pretty sure she isn't, if she said she was then I would call Bullshit cause she would know better than to move anywhere feeling dizzy and out of it... Even when I play with partners who are also Diabetic, they know the difference between a sugar low and sub space.

Also WHERE did the OP ever say they had never been in subspace before... In fact she knew exactly how she gets in subspace, she stated clearly that while in sub space she gets cold and also explained that while in subspace she finds it difficult to talk, she never said this was the first time she got to subspace, she said it was the first time it happened from shoulder pain. So lets not pull the ignorance card, because in the BDSM Lifestyle that card gets played WAY too offten.

The truth is, is that you can state all these possible problems you want, most of them could be checked off the list all based on the fact that she as able to walk to the room.

I mean, going on what you said with the symptoms that she was giving, you could also assume knowing what she had been doing before she was brought to the room that she had, Polio - Chances are she was Vaccinated, maybe she had internal bleeding, maybe she had head trauma, maybe she had an anurism, maybe she has zoomboobiedambia fever - Not likely unless they were playing with blow flies and rotted meat.

She Played, rough, then instead of getting the care she "WANTED" from the people who were the most available and qualified to give it, you know the people she was playing with who knew exactly what was going on, she chose to be dumped on her boyfriend who had no idea what she had just gone through and from her own words would have been unable to tell him anyway.

Hypoglycemia, Hypotension - BOTH of these would not have killed her if she fell asleep, IF she did have them and when they woke up and she was still shivering, drooling, non-responsive and taken to the hospital she would be given a shot and within minutes have been fine.......... NOW... Had she actually had these and he been there to do aftercare.... they would still be going to a Hospital for a shot and then she would be fine a few minutes later. He would not have been able to help anyway.... anything that he would have done if it helped then she was in no danger anyway.

Stop looking at Wikipedia and start looking at Medical Sites.... where they discuss how the doctor treats such things, then also remember that you are not a doctor... neither am I... I just don't spend unnedded time worring about all the horrible things that could happen when in reality there aren't that many in the world of what it is that we do.

QSM

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RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post - 8/14/2010 1:04:20 PM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

You persist in only addressing ancillary parts of my post to you...



It's not 'ancillory'...it's the crux of the matter.

Why?

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RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post - 8/14/2010 1:06:15 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

You persist in only addressing ancillary parts of my post to you...



It's not 'ancillory'...it's the crux of the matter.

Why?



This conversation is going no where, I asked you direct questions and you have no intention of answering them

Have a nice day

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RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post - 8/14/2010 1:08:39 PM   
AQuietSimpleMan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andalusite

AQSM, if someone has a migraine, they are very unlikely to die or have serious injury from it.  At the time, they need to stay in the dark, need it to be quiet, maybe need to *not* cuddle or interact with anyone, and will have difficulty getting food or anything to drink.  Sure, she's medically fine, but she did need some care at the time.  He didn't explicitly promise aftercare, but she wasn't demanding anything that required a huge amount of effort on his part.  I wouldn't want to date anyone who so much didn't give a crap about me that he would begrudge getting me a glass of water or an extra blanket, and wanted me to be uncomfortable until I fell asleep.  Again, the actions the night of were less of a concern than his saying the next day that he planned not to take care of her in the future.  For me, that would be a dealbreaker. 



My Deal breaker would have been when you rejected the help of someone who was there because you were feeling needy for someone who had nothing to do with what had happened to you. Your Expectations on my without having stated them would be unacceptable.

Mind you I am not trying to argue that what she wanted of him would be simple and easy to do, you are all missing the point, I am suggesting that her expectations on him for something that he had never agreed to, when she refused the help of those who would have GLADLY done for her what she woke and then damn near demanded he do for her.

This shows a great level of inconsideration for the other party here. He was asleep, he had been asleep, he opened the door to someone who had engaged in god knows what that left her in this stupor and now he was being expected to fix it.

This level of incosiderate behavior in a relationship is more than enough for me to say either you own your part in this or that would be the dealbreaker.

I am sure no one will believe me but I am usually very intune to how my girl is feeling and I try to take care of her all the time. From making sure she has taken her meds to making sure she slept well. If she ever pulled this shit, and then tried to present me as this uncaring ass, I would have her packing her things. Because this would have all been a bed of her own making......

Since when did we stop expecting people to lie in the beds they made for themselves. Have we all stopped wanting people to take control of their own actions or should someone else always be to blame for something they didn't even have a part in.

QSM

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RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post - 8/14/2010 1:12:12 PM   
AQuietSimpleMan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

fast reply

anyone who came into my presence spilling water, seeming unwell, I would want to make sure that person was okay. People have strokes, heart attacks, and other issues all the time, if someone seems unwell CHECK THEM.

I guess I have baggage around this issue, I was 13 when my father died, and I spent the last day of his life with him. He was sick in bed. I never checked him because I had no idea he had a heart attack. People, if you care about others it aint much to ask you get your heads out of your ass and not think about your own damn self for 5 minutes... if you think it can't happen to you, that you could ignore the symptoms of someone you love being in trouble and needing your help, think again


No it's not much to ask....

However to be angry with someone because they didn't is a horrible thing to do.

When you EXPECT the world to do niceities you are setting yourself up for failure.

You did not have anything to do with him passing away. Had you been there you most likely would not have been able to stop it... asprin or not.

However if he did not pass away, and then yelled at you for not checking on him because he could have... well that would make him an asshole.

QSM

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RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post - 8/14/2010 1:14:37 PM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

This conversation is going no where, I asked you direct questions and you have no intention of answering them

Have a nice day



As I remember...I asked you the question....and you responded with a long...rambling diatribe about not a great deal.

Now you could answer the question.....or you could behave like the OP.....when things don't go her way she goes into a decline...

Shame she didn't say 'have a nice day' while making her way over to the tap...and we wouldn't be having this sorry excuse for a conversation...everything would be rosey in the garden.

Yeah......'have a nice day'...good work Julia.

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RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post - 8/14/2010 1:18:05 PM   
Andalusite


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I try to plan ahead for this stuff.  If I play with someone, I make sure there are blankets and water readily accessible before starting play, no matter whether I'm the one getting thwacked or the one doing the thwacking.  I mentioned earlier that I have played with someone who had a DM shift afterward, or who had plans to play with someone else, and I took care of myself or let someone who offered give me a hand.  If I emotionally needed my sweetie right then, yeah, I might feel a little hurt if he wasn't willing to cuddle with me or whatever.  I'm generally more mature than a toddler wanting "only Mommy."  Again, I might have felt a little hurt or rejected if he had treated me that way, but what concerns me is his statement the next day that he would not be there for her and take care of her in the future.

Like I said, I have no problem with your approach to cuddling/aftercare/whatever, as long as it works for you and your partners.  It wouldn't work for me, so I wouldn't date someone who had your attitude/approach to this stuff.  Sure, I take responsibility for my actions, but once in a rare while, yes, I can be needy and clingy and want a bit of cossetting, especially if I'm physically not feeling well.  I want someone who likes doing things to take care of me, not someone who the idea makes him angry.

I don't expect "the world" to do niceties for me, but I sure as heck do expect that of my boyfriend, regardless of our relationship dynamic.  He should care about me and want me to be happy.  If not, why the heck would I be with him?  I expect my boyfriend to treat me at least as well as my friends do.  If he doesn't live up to my expectations, it doesn't mean I was wrong for having them, just that we aren't compatible. 


< Message edited by Andalusite -- 8/14/2010 1:21:25 PM >

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RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post - 8/14/2010 1:26:29 PM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andalusite

I want someone who likes doing things to take care of me, not someone who the idea makes him angry.



More obfuscation of the OP...in no way shape or form does the original post suggest the 'boyfriend' doesn't like doing things to take care of her.......on this particular occasion he was reluctant....and for good reason. You're a strange lot.....every time you don't get your way he 'doesn't care' for you. This whole thing screams of middle class spoilt brats who are used to mummy and daddy paying their way through college etc....and are yet to grasp that not everyone wants to play mummy or daddy with people who think they're entitled to something because they're running round appealing to 'deep subspace'.

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(in reply to Andalusite)
Profile   Post #: 238
RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post - 8/14/2010 1:28:56 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

Now you could answer the question.....or you could behave like the OP.....when things don't go her way she goes into a decline...


No, NG, I realize when communication is not taking place and I have no problem with packing my marbles and going home. No aftercare needed

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(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 239
RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post - 8/14/2010 1:36:27 PM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

Now you could answer the question.....or you could behave like the OP.....when things don't go her way she goes into a decline...


No, NG, I realize when communication is not taking place and I have no problem with packing my marbles and going home. No aftercare needed


Admirable. Although you're skirting around the issue...still........

If you're really here for discussion....which is the implication as per the incidence of your posts on this thread....then you'd reply to a clear and concise question.....

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I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 240
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