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RE: Hubby is vanilla so i went outside my marriage - 4/21/2006 3:24:02 PM

KarbonCopy

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funny how low some people stoop.

cowards.

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RE: Hubby is vanilla so i went outside my marriage - 4/21/2006 3:49:07 PM

Tenire

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Joined: 4/2/2006
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Lots of good points have been made on this issue. and I will have to get on the "Come Clean" side of the fence. Secrets like this are evil little poisonous termites that will eat away at your soul.

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RE: Hubby is vanilla so i went outside my marriage - 4/21/2006 10:38:53 PM

akisha

Posts: 2071
Joined: 6/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CAROLF

well i just want slavekal to come here and mow my lawn, with those muscles he can get it done in not time. :) too bad you are not a dom mmmmmmmmmm, oh yea, sorry, got off track, oh hell, i'm staying off track bye

lol carol

i was leaning more towards licking his tummy *weg*

hmm here share my ice bucket *giggles* sounds like you might need it

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RE: Hubby is vanilla so i went outside my marriage - 4/22/2006 2:02:09 AM

RavenMuse

Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
I at least got to behold someone as perfect as yourself before that stone thunked me in the head

I'm damn good, but hardly perfect dear

However don't make the mistake of thinking that your, or anyone elses sensibilitys or PC 'tollerance' issues mean squat to me. There are things I won't tolerate being involved with myself and won't condone in others, situations like this where people are looking for false validation and back-up for excuses and validation of actions that are entirely decietful and damaging definatly fall into that catagory.

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RE: Hubby is vanilla so i went outside my marriage - 4/22/2006 11:28:45 AM

cloudboy

Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: valeca

quote:

ORIGINAL: jewelofthenight

i I thought there would be some compassion here

It implies that because we're kinky people we're more likely to condone infidelity...

We're just like any other group of people. Some will not see the big deal and tell you to fill you boots, some will disagree with the cheating and suggest you address the issue directly and/or deal with the commitments you're already in--one way or another--before seeking your own satisfaction elsewhere. Some will flat out call you a cheat.

For the record, I don't believe you're hiding things to 'protect' your husband. You're hiding it to protect your own interests.

And, as far as I know, even in poly relationships, fidelity exists between the parties... if not in the traditional way.

Here's a little test to see if you can live with what you're doing:

Look at yourself in the mirror. Feeling ok?

Now go look in your husband's eyes.

How're you doing now?

Boy, you've offered some choice counsel for a woman trying to feel her way about some troubling changes she's experiencing.

Here are the facts.

1. You don't know her. (And now you never will, b/c the likes of snap judgers like you drove from this site.)

2. You don't know her husband.

3. You don't know her religion.

4. You don't know her circumstances.

5. You don't offer any personal insight into what its like to be in a marriage that is not completely satisfying.

----

Striking out 1-5, though, you do judge her conduct. BRILLIANT!!

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 4/22/2006 11:30:24 AM >

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RE: Hubby is vanilla so i went outside my marriage - 4/22/2006 11:57:03 AM

cloudboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jewelofthenight

NEVERMIND NEVERMIND NEVERMIND

PLEASE FORGET I WAS EVER HERE.

I know you've bailed alreadly, but the good news about the negative reaction you received is it does tell you what you are up against in terms "what mainstream society thinks."

It is not easy to step out on your own, go against the grain, take risks and keep yourself together. Support is thin out there. Much of the strength you will need must come from within, and it will be up to you to remain standing when others would just assume hang you out to dry.

I'm a broken record in saying this, but the most judgemental people here on "cheaters" are the unmarried, never been married, very young, and the divorced. The best advice and the helpful insights come from the folks who've been married seven (7) plus years or longer, and who know first hand what LONG TERM monogamy is all about.

Here's an insightful quote from POLYAMORY THE NEW LOVE WITHOUT LIMITS, Secrets of Sustainable Intimate Relationships:

Our Culture desperately needs a new set of sexual ethics. We need a middle ground between the free love/do your own thing doctrine of the Sexual Revolution and outmoded lifelong monogamy. We need realistic guidelines that incorporate the highest wisdom from all of the diverse cultures which comprise today's global village.

The fact is that most of us are polyamorourists at heart whether we are willing to admit it to ourselves or not. It is no accident that "serial monogamy," which is not really monogamy at all, is currently the most common relationship form in our culture. Serial monogamy can be viewed as being one step closer to who we really are. Unlike lifelong monogamy, it allows us to express our polyamorous nature while maintaining a monogamist fiction in which our multiple mates are separated by linear time. For some people this marriage-divorce-remarriage cycle remains the best solution.

But divorce increasingly appears to be more stressful and disruptive than first thought. The price that our children pay for our self deception can be enormous. Although we all need the warmth and security of a nurturing family persisting over time, we must find ways to create sustainable intimate relationships which do not violate our intrinsic polyamorous nature.

I like the language here and the juxtoposition between outmoded lifelong monogamy and sustainable intimate relationships.

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RE: Hubby is vanilla so i went outside my marriage - 4/22/2006 1:29:50 PM

amaidiamond

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Well I don't cheat myself and I don't really understand people who do however the shower of ethical rocks that came down on the girl from the outset was somewhat scary, a little like stoning someone in the old days for adultery, we still do it just now it's verbal not physical, or maybe it would be physical without the screen in the way :) - actually I think there are people who probably enjoy that too and it takes all sorts... anyway I digress.
I dare say I will get flamed myself for this but as far as i could tell from the initial post the girl didn't ask anyones opinions of her, she asked if anyone else had a similar experience and was immediatly bombarded with oppinions about what a terrible hussy she was and when pointed out that she asked for help, flaming her was justified by the fact she didn't ask for help for the right reasons, surely a public forum should be a place someone can turn to and have a question answered at face value.
I dunno, I nearly ended up in that situation with a man I loved deeply, the D/s had gone and just wasn't coming back, He's my ideal in so many ways but that part of me was crying out as it died, my choice was not to cheat but to end the relationship but it isn't the choice others may make.
It just seemed a little harsh to me to answer a question with a mutipal tounge lashing.
Maybe I'm just soft in the head,

I'll retire to my quiet corner now.

dia

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RE: Hubby is vanilla so i went outside my marriage - 4/22/2006 1:54:46 PM

juliaoceania

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"a little like stoning someone in the old days for adultery, we still do it just now it's verbal not physical, or maybe it would be physical without the screen in the way "

I thought that too...

"I dare say I will get flamed myself for this but as far as i could tell from the initial post the girl didn't ask anyones opinions of her, she asked if anyone else had a similar experience and was immediatly bombarded with oppinions about what a terrible hussy she was and when pointed out that she asked for help, flaming her was justified by the fact she didn't ask for help for the right reasons, surely a public forum should be a place someone can turn to and have a question answered at face value. "

Yep.. and I noted this was the "ask submissives" forum and some of her harshest critics werent subs... I thought that it seemed like a lynching, and be careful, someone wanted to stone me for sticking up for her,.. always sticking up for someone at the bottom of the dogpile, I hate gang violence.

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RE: Hubby is vanilla so i went outside my marriage - 4/22/2006 2:05:04 PM

amaidiamond

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From: Watford / London
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Yep.. and I noted this was the "ask submissives" forum and some of her harshest critics werent subs... I thought that it seemed like a lynching, and be careful, someone wanted to stone me for sticking up for her,.. always sticking up for someone at the bottom of the dogpile, I hate gang violence.

I've never been one to really care about if people want to stone me, my oppinion is mine and I'm not the type to hush and nurse it becasue someone else may not like it, I'm far to loud mouthed and opinionated for that :)

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RE: Hubby is vanilla so i went outside my marriage - 4/22/2006 2:08:39 PM

juliaoceania

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I have been stoned before... lol

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RE: Hubby is vanilla so i went outside my marriage - 4/22/2006 2:09:40 PM

amaidiamond

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Tsk tsk terrible, I'm a clean living sweet angelic girl myself

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RE: Hubby is vanilla so i went outside my marriage - 4/22/2006 2:17:54 PM

LadyJulieAnn

Posts: 979
Joined: 6/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: jewelofthenight

NEVERMIND NEVERMIND NEVERMIND

PLEASE FORGET I WAS EVER HERE.

I know you've bailed alreadly, but the good news about the negative reaction you received is it does tell you what you are up against in terms "what mainstream society thinks."

It is not easy to step out on your own, go against the grain, take risks and keep yourself together. Support is thin out there. Much of the strength you will need must come from within, and it will be up to you to remain standing when others would just assume hang you out to dry.

I'm a broken record in saying this, but the most judgemental people here on "cheaters" are the unmarried, never been married, very young, and the divorced. The best advice and the helpful insights come from the folks who've been married seven (7) plus years or longer, and who know first hand what LONG TERM monogamy is all about.

Here's an insightful quote from POLYAMORY THE NEW LOVE WITHOUT LIMITS, Secrets of Sustainable Intimate Relationships:

Our Culture desperately needs a new set of sexual ethics. We need a middle ground between the free love/do your own thing doctrine of the Sexual Revolution and outmoded lifelong monogamy. We need realistic guidelines that incorporate the highest wisdom from all of the diverse cultures which comprise today's global village.

The fact is that most of us are polyamorourists at heart whether we are willing to admit it to ourselves or not. It is no accident that "serial monogamy," which is not really monogamy at all, is currently the most common relationship form in our culture. Serial monogamy can be viewed as being one step closer to who we really are. Unlike lifelong monogamy, it allows us to express our polyamorous nature while maintaining a monogamist fiction in which our multiple mates are separated by linear time. For some people this marriage-divorce-remarriage cycle remains the best solution.

But divorce increasingly appears to be more stressful and disruptive than first thought. The price that our children pay for our self deception can be enormous. Although we all need the warmth and security of a nurturing family persisting over time, we must find ways to create sustainable intimate relationships which do not violate our intrinsic polyamorous nature.

I like the language here and the juxtoposition between outmoded lifelong monogamy and sustainable intimate relationships.

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RE: Hubby is vanilla so i went outside my marriage - 4/22/2006 2:54:22 PM

MasterRenegade77

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I've been on both sides of this fence so I can cast no stones...
I've been cheated on Many time & I know the hurt...
I also got involved w/a slave that was in a Nilla marriage thinking I could get her to leave him...
It's now over 17 years later & she's still w/him...
All I can say is it DON'T Work, Somebody's going to get crashed...
Be Honest with yourself & get your priorities straight you can't have it both ways forever!!!

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RE: Hubby is vanilla so i went outside my marriage - 4/22/2006 3:22:22 PM

Lordandmaster

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Yup, that's been my experience too.

I think it's a waste of time to try to attack her OR defend her. She asked for advice, not for judgments. My advice is to get out.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterRenegade77

All I can say is it DON'T Work, Somebody's going to get crashed...
Be Honest with yourself & get your priorities straight you can't have it both ways forever!!!

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RE: Hubby is vanilla so i went outside my marriage - 4/22/2006 3:48:07 PM

juliaoceania

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Yup, that's been my experience too.

I think it's a waste of time to try to attack her OR defend her. She asked for advice, not for judgments. My advice is to get out.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterRenegade77

All I can say is it DON'T Work, Somebody's going to get crashed...
Be Honest with yourself & get your priorities straight you can't have it both ways forever!!!

I agree if she was asking for advice, but if you read her original post she was asking for people with the same experience to share it with her. I did that originally, and shared what happened to my best friend who made the same mistake. That friend was stalked by the dom she cheated with and threatened when she ended it because he had leverage on her... she was cheating and it made her vulnerable to being stalked... that was my friend's experience. I watched her go through hell for over a year. She eventually came clean and is in an open marriage, after her husband went to court with her to get a restraining order on the psycho. He even stalked me to get at her. You both are right, best to live your life out in the sunshine than in the dark and the best way to illustrate that is with examples of how living in the dark can hurt everyone you love.

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RE: Hubby is vanilla so i went outside my marriage - 4/22/2006 4:05:34 PM

cloudboy

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That's nice to suggest polyamory, but her initial posting said that she could never reveal to her husband what she was doing, so polyamory was out of the question.

I find it interesting when people"bail" when they hear something that doesn't resonate well with them.

Be well,
Julie
[/quote]

My post was a bit more wide angled than suggesting polyamory. It was about ethics, society, and sexual mores. The poster is only now just beginning to realize her extra marital needs, so the question is, what can she do to go about meeting them and how will that affect her marriage?

LAM tells her to "get out," but how does that help and what does that solve? Its an extreme suggestion from someone who isn't closely familiar with the OPs dilemma.

MasterRenegade77 also only talks about what happened to himself, and offers little if any problem solving advice. His observation is, " I also got involved w/a slave that was in a Nilla marriage thinking I could get her to leave him...It's now over 17 years later & she's still w/him... " Then he says, " I've been cheated on Many time & I know the hurt.."

He's not exactly bound for the Oprah show with this routine. He offers nothing about the inter dynamics of being married, how to improve the communication lines, and how love if properly modified, doesn't have to be all about possession.

Then you say, "I find it interesting when people"bail" when they hear something that doesn't resonate well with them."

Well, I don't blame her, I thought the asshole factor on this thread scored a perfect 10. She didn't quite have the moxy and fortitude of BLKMADONA, but that was obvious from the start.

When someone asks for help and understanding, a rush to judgment is very injurious. This cycle has played out about 5x already on this board. I loved what meatclever had to say earlier on another thread, "This is after all a kink site and not a marriage bureau."

He also said, "I'm single so it matters little to me but fixed morals tend to be the good intentions that pave the way to hell. Human relations are complex and full of gray areas and denying oneself ones basic needs can lead to a barren relationship anyway.

Honesty is bandied glibby about these threads, its an easy sound bite."

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RE: Hubby is vanilla so i went outside my marriage - 4/22/2006 4:17:35 PM

Lordandmaster

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It helps with the little problem called SHE'S CHEATING ON HER SPOUSE AND HE'S GOING TO FIND OUT.

It solves the little dilemma called LIFE IS GOING TO SUCK FOR EVERYONE INVOLVED WHEN HE FINDS OUT.

Sorry I can't give better advice, but this is a situation without a good outcome. I have heard this story a thousand times (and lived through it once or twice), and the results are always the same.

1. The best-case scenario, the spouse happens to be a dormant kink as well and the couple lives happily ever after (not likely, but it happens once in a blue moon).
2. The next best scenario, the spouse agrees to an open marriaeg (not likely either, but it happens).
3. The next best scenario, the spouse agrees to an amicable divorce (a little more likely).
4. The next best scenario, the spouse finds out and is shattered (by far the most likely).

Sometimes the spouse commits suicide. Sometimes the spouse kills the cheater. Or both cheaters. Sometimes the spouse is content just to file for divorce, though of course he or she is crushed first. And sometimes the dom runs away because the situation gets too chaotic and he's like, Hey, I didn't ask for this. That leaves with sub with no spouse AND no dom.

Really, what GOOD outcome do YOU foresee? The sooner she gets out of this situation, the less damage she is going to cause. Relationships do not survive dishonesty, and she is being dishonest with her husband.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
LAM tells her to "get out," but how does that help and what does that solve? Its an extreme suggestion from someone who isn't closely familiar with the OPs dilemma.

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RE: Hubby is vanilla so i went outside my marriage - 4/22/2006 4:43:34 PM

amaidiamond

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End of the day, her life and her dilema is none of our business, what happens with her and her husband, if she stays, leaves or dances naked in the rain is nothing to do with us, she is no-one heres girl to judge or condon so why is everyone so very fast to do it? thats the part I don't understand - I mean I don't agree with it, I would not do it but i wouldn't push my oppinion of her behaviour on her unless she asked for it and an oppinion wasn't what she asked for.
Still I guess everyones having fun putting there moral stance in for the record and the original poster has fled for the hills so it is all pretty irrelevant.
I think i'm going to contemplate the morality of covering people in chocolate, warm of course :D
Is a much more enjoyable thought

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RE: Hubby is vanilla so i went outside my marriage - 4/22/2006 5:40:45 PM

LadyJulieAnn

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I read back over most of the posts and didn't find many people judging her. I saw the majority of people sharing that they didn't condone the behavior. Many people shared their insights, but because they didn't go along with what she wanted to hear, she chose to leave the boards. I think if someone is going to ask for advice/insight, they need to be prepared to hear some things that they might not agree with.

Yes, there are alternatives to monogamy, but many people don't subscribe to those ideas. I wouldn't bash those who posted here just because the majority of them fall into the "I believe in monogamy" category.

Be well,
Julie

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RE: Hubby is vanilla so i went outside my marriage - 4/22/2006 7:17:09 PM

Lordandmaster

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What are you talking about? She specifically asked for opinions. Go back and read the OP.

quote:

ORIGINAL: amaidiamond

I would not do it but i wouldn't push my oppinion of her behaviour on her unless she asked for it and an oppinion wasn't what she asked for.

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