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RE: What do it takes to become a pro domme? - 10/26/2010 9:12:01 PM   
LadyNTrainer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: naughtynick81
Firstly, you have to make sure that you offer these same qualities yourself.


.....which is what I just got through saying, in case you missed it.  All of the things I expect in my submissive are the same things I expect in myself, as a responsible adult partner and dominant. 


quote:

Secondly, it may be hard to find a man with all them qualities in one.


Funny, I managed to find two of them.  And I actually know a fair number more, since I tend to hang out in the "geek kink" circles almost exclusively.


quote:

Thirdly, when dommes or women in general look for certain qualities; take intelligence for example, they can go over the top with it and expect this super duper intelligent guy that stands out from most while the women who demand this are not offering such intelligence themselves.


Well, pretty much everybody in my extended poly family, myself included, is in a science related field of some kind and is decently accomplished/degreed/recognized/etc in their field.  We get along well because we're all kinky geeks, and as likely to geek out about some obscure bit of science as we are to do kinky stuff.  I wouldn't add someone to my family who wasn't totally comfortable and at home in this environment, nor would I be comfortable and at home in it if I wasn't on the same page as they were on an intellectual level.  The point here isn't demanding value for value, it's just feeling comfortable because we're all on the same level and able to speak freely to one another without anyone having to look up the big words in a dictionary before they can participate in our conversation. 

I have no idea what the motive would be for someone to want someone who was substantially above or below their intellectual level.  I don't think that would lead to very comfortable communication.  I know it wouldn't for me.


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RE: What do it takes to become a pro domme? - 10/26/2010 9:12:28 PM   
DMFParadox


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyNTrainer

Male versus female reproductive strategies are actually pretty applicable to the pro domme topic, IMO; the discussion at hand certainly covers the economy of mate choices, including who actually pays for it.  It's a dry, scientific and possibly boring-to-most way of going about discussing it, but it's relevant and applicable.  Moderator input, please?


Dear god, I'm in awe of this. You managed to make this relevant enough to the topic at hand to be worth replying to, and the way you did it... Woman, you've got some balls.

I'd like to find out if this particular weasel-wording meets the standard, too. Weasel wording is not an insult, just the most accurate appellation I can come up with. I am filled with respect.

Edited to add: I'm also flattered that you feel the need to one-up me so badly by failing to take this somewhere else. I still won't respond, barring moderator's blessing on your magic loophole of redefining topics +5 up there; but I am flattered. I suppose you'll now feel the need to explain why I'm making false assumptions about your motives. It's ok; go ahead.


< Message edited by DMFParadox -- 10/26/2010 9:20:40 PM >


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RE: What do it takes to become a pro domme? - 10/26/2010 9:24:13 PM   
ElanSubdued


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sexyred1,

quote:

sexyred1 to ElanSubdued:
Just wanted to say that you are quite correct in assessing the game playing that is inherent in the topic.  And, that is precisely why it angers so many intelligent women that some think this is a means to a good end.  As you said, it might work short term if the woman is up for game playing herself.  But, most of us who have been around a while in life are seeking more real connections that are not based on psychological games and manipulation.  I have often found that those who cannot be authentic for fear of rejection are the types I am not attracted to.  Give me a guy who over-shares versus one who hides behind a facade, anytime.


We're pretty much in agreement here.  I feel the same way from a male-to-female perspective.

Elan.

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RE: What do it takes to become a pro domme? - 10/26/2010 9:28:49 PM   
LadyNTrainer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DMFParadox
Dear god, I'm in awe of this. You managed to make this relevant enough to the topic at hand to be worth replying to, and the way you did it... Woman, you've got some balls.


No, just a big cock.  It's in a drawer right now, though. 


quote:

I'd like to find out if this particular weasel-wording meets the standard, too. Weasel wording is not an insult, just the most accurate appellation I can come up with. I am filled with respect.


Feel free to call it what you like.  I honestly believe this.  I am not in the habit of being deceptive to further an agenda.  I recognize that my belief in this case may or may not be shared by others.  I do, truthfully and honestly, believe that the discussion of economic resource allocation in relation to male-female competitive reproductive strategy as influenced by evolutionary biology is highly relevant to any discussion of sex work or professional domination.  However it is unlikely to be interesting or relevant to most people who are more interested in practical tips or titillatingly kinky material, so I am open to having a moderator call it in the other direction.



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RE: What do it takes to become a pro domme? - 10/26/2010 9:38:35 PM   
DMFParadox


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If you didn't believe it -  rather, if it wasn't presented believably - I wouldn't have been as impressed.

So let's talk about resource allocation as it regards to getting into the field of pro domming, then. I can get behind that.

For a pro domme, I respectfully suggest that the prevailing culture of dating disincentivizes average men from assuming courtesy as understood by the general population will be rewarded by the woman they're with. Therefore, a Pro Domme beginning to take on paying clients, and uncertain where to start, might do so by training them on 'basic courtesies' as they apply to her preferences. Tribute falls under this category; as a mild example, does she want the client to pay for an initial coffee date? She can't assume he will, just because he's a submissive, even if it's the gentlemanly thing to do.

How's that for a starter, darlin'? I can proceed on these grounds.


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bloody hell, get me some aspirin and a whiskey straight

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RE: What do it takes to become a pro domme? - 10/26/2010 9:39:49 PM   
LadyNTrainer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DMFParadox
Edited to add: I'm also flattered that you feel the need to one-up me so badly by failing to take this somewhere else. I still won't respond, barring moderator's blessing on your magic loophole of redefining topics +5 up there; but I am flattered. I suppose you'll now feel the need to explain why I'm making false assumptions about your motives. It's ok; go ahead.


I don't care enough to feel the need to one-up you.  I do believe exactly what I stated: the evolutionary economics of male versus female reproductive success strategies *are* directly relevant to the economics of sex work. 

I also recognize that a highly abstract, academic approach to the topic may not be what the OP was looking for, or what most people are really interested in, so the moderator may call it in either direction.  My personal opinion is that the discussion does belong here for the reasons I have stated, ergo I will courteously wait for the moderator to decide whether or not it should in fact be moved.  I have no control over what you may or may not decide to do, so if you choose to start another thread that is entirely up to you.  I don't personally choose to do so at this time.


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RE: What do it takes to become a pro domme? - 10/26/2010 9:49:10 PM   
DMFParadox


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyNTrainer
I don't care enough to feel the need to one-up you. 


Your actions belie these words. However, I believe that you believe them.

So whatever.

I'll respond to socioeconomic considerations of pro domming as they apply to entering the field. I think you missed that last part, it's important. Do you want to play, or not? That's about as close as I'll get to walking the line; I've been warned off before, for similar reasons, and I'm not as interested in proving my version of what's relevant to our absentee OP as you seem to be.


< Message edited by DMFParadox -- 10/26/2010 9:50:49 PM >


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"The role of gender in society is the most complicated thing I’ve ever spent a lot of time learning about, and I’ve spent a lot of time learning about quantum mechanics." - Randall Munroe

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RE: What do it takes to become a pro domme? - 10/26/2010 9:53:26 PM   
LadyNTrainer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DMFParadox
So let's talk about resource allocation as it regards to getting into the field of pro domming, then. I can get behind that.


And completely ignore my reply to your "women are so dumb they don't know what they want, but they'll always fall for a smooth playa like me because evolution wires them that way" theory?   Oookay.....but fair warning, skipping the tracks like that does meet most people's definition of "weasel words". 

quote:

For a pro domme, I respectfully suggest that the prevailing culture of dating disincentivizes average men from assuming courtesy as understood by the general population will be rewarded by the woman they're with. Therefore, a Pro Domme beginning to take on paying clients, and uncertain where to start, might do so by training them on 'basic courtesies' as they apply to her preferences. Tribute falls under this category; as a mild example, does she want the client to pay for an initial coffee date? She can't assume he will, just because he's a submissive, even if it's the gentlemanly thing to do.


Yes, clear communication and negotiation is essential when establishing a relationship.  And your point is? 

One of the things you're missing is the difference between "tribute", which the submissive offers with no specified return, and an honest professional transaction where the client pays an agreed-upon fee and receives agreed-upon services.  I am an ethical professional, and I engage only in the latter.  I am personally wary of the former, and generally suggest to most would-be submissives to avoid situations where they are expected to give too freely with no clear understanding of what they are getting in return.  A small investment to show sincerity, perhaps a cup of coffee or a single rose, is a reasonable gesture of chivalry and a demonstration of one's willingness to be giving in a two-way relationship.  Beyond that, I'd agree that the giving and getting really should be clearly negotiated up front on both sides to avoid a mismatch of expectations.  

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RE: What do it takes to become a pro domme? - 10/26/2010 10:18:23 PM   
LadyNTrainer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DMFParadox
Your actions belie these words. However, I believe that you believe them.


I generally care more about factual exchanges than I do about the people engaging in them.  It's one of the great advantages *and* disadvantages of being on the autistic spectrum.  I care, sometimes quite passionately, about the truth.  I don't care nearly so much which one of us comes up with more of it. 

I've been told that dialoguing with me is a bit like trying to talk to Data from Star Trek, or Johnny Five from Short Circuit.  I'm sure it's remarkably annoying at times, but the conversation is likely to be more productive if you don't always assume I have neurotypical motives.  TL;DR, I am a weird motherfucker with odd brain wiring, and most people's standard emotional projections about how I must "really" feel about something are usually confusing as hell to me.  If I feel it, I'll tell it.  When I say that what you see is what you get when you communicate with me, that's literally what it means.  I function best on full transparency, and that is my preferred operating mode.

quote:

I'll respond to socioeconomic considerations of pro domming as they apply to entering the field. I think you missed that last part, it's important. Do you want to play, or not? That's about as close as I'll get to walking the line; I've been warned off before, for similar reasons, and I'm not as interested in proving my version of what's relevant to our absentee OP as you seem to be.


I don't want to "play", but I do enjoy meaningful factual and academic contributions to discussions on topics of interest to me, eg, evolutionary biology, the Red Queen/Selfish Gene hypothesis, etc, as they relate to particular threads about gender relations and sex work.  Your last comment on pro domming wasn't particularly good academic bait however.

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RE: What do it takes to become a pro domme? - 10/26/2010 10:35:11 PM   
DMFParadox


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyNTrainer
And completely ignore my reply to your "women are so dumb they don't know what they want, but they'll always fall for a smooth playa like me because evolution wires them that way" theory?   Oookay.....but fair warning, skipping the tracks like that does meet most people's definition of "weasel words".


It's fair; I'm ignoring your murderous paraphrase there, too. Kind of means you get the last word. More cutting, I'm ignoring a comment made by RedMagic which I really want to respond to. But I'm going to sleep on that. If I still care in the morning, I'll send an email to him.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyNTrainer
words


My point was about courtesies in a general sense. But more, it's about expectations. By knowing what the state of the nation is with dating today, you know what to prepare for as a service provider in a related arena, and what pitfalls to avoid.

Also, if you're a pro domme who wants to make her clients happy, then knowing what things men resent provides an opportunity for outstanding service. Let's say that you run across someone like Nick, but not quite as... circular in his thinking; just someone who feels that his efforts go unappreciated. Do you want to react by: a) ignoring this, or assuming that if he doesn't say anything it won't be a problem; b) setting standards which prevent any services from clients, except under highly controlled circumstances;  c) Encouraging it, and providing the appreciation he wants; d)pre-selecting for customers that don't have this problem?

There's no wrong answer; all four approaches will work for different types of situations and different types of businesses. But the more aware you are of it happening, and why, the more aptly you can react, or plan your preferred response.

As for what I was missing, you're right; ethical business practices do apply, here, above and beyond the way you interact with the client. To do it right - and she would, if she were to make a real living at it - she'd need a business plan and a sharp sense of who her customers will be, where they're coming from and how to advertise to them; and more to your point, how to process them in the most predictable manner possible. Ethical business works in large part because self-regulating behavior tends to allow you to spot problems faster, and course-correct; whereas flying by your pants on each client means you'll sometimes repeat some bad history. Understanding terms up front gives you a reference point, even if and the client want or need to change things down the line, and good record keeping shows you what you need to change.


_____________________________

bloody hell, get me some aspirin and a whiskey straight

"The role of gender in society is the most complicated thing I’ve ever spent a lot of time learning about, and I’ve spent a lot of time learning about quantum mechanics." - Randall Munroe

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RE: What do it takes to become a pro domme? - 10/26/2010 10:49:41 PM   
LadyNTrainer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DMFParadox
It's fair; I'm ignoring your murderous paraphrase there, too. Kind of means you get the last word. More cutting, I'm ignoring a comment made by RedMagic which I really want to respond to. But I'm going to sleep on that. If I still care in the morning, I'll send an email to him.


Unless the mods say otherwise, you are not required to allow anyone the last word on anything.  Respond if you have more to offer that supports your hypotheses and adequately addresses the points that have been made.  Or not if you don't care.  There is no law that says you are required to give a crap what strangers say on the Internet, even if you think they're wrong.


quote:

Also, if you're a pro domme who wants to make her clients happy, then knowing what things men resent provides an opportunity for outstanding service. Let's say that you run across someone like Nick, but not quite as... circular in his thinking; just someone who feels that his efforts go unappreciated. Do you want to react by: a) ignoring this, or assuming that if he doesn't say anything it won't be a problem; b) setting standards which prevent any services from clients, except under highly controlled circumstances;  c) Encouraging it, and providing the appreciation he wants; d)pre-selecting for customers that don't have this problem?


My personal choice is pre-selecting for clients who don't have anger issues towards women or pro dommes.  It's more drama and risk than is worth dealing with, on a pure cost-benefit equation.   I do cater to clients who appreciate a fair, honest, totally transparent and very professional transaction where everything is clearly negotiated up front and there are no surprises, hidden costs or demands.  But keep in mind that offering kinky personal trainer services is very much a minor sideline for me, and as a result I don't market myself particularly aggressively, or even very effectively for the most part.

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RE: What do it takes to become a pro domme? - 10/26/2010 10:50:28 PM   
DMFParadox


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyNTrainer

I generally care more about factual exchanges than I do about the people engaging in them.  It's one of the great advantages *and* disadvantages of being on the autistic spectrum.  I care, sometimes quite passionately, about the truth.  I don't care nearly so much which one of us comes up with more of it. 



I'll believe this. But I feel the need to point out that most people would claim the same; and they would be misleading themselves. A buddy of mine has a favorite saying about it: "95% of people believe they're the 5% that's different from the rest." In fact, one of the links I previously posted to OkTrends has a statistic that's almost exactly this.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyNTrainer
I've been told that dialoguing with me is a bit like trying to talk to Data from Star Trek,


Eh, I got 'Doogie' or 'Einstein'. Or just, 'Stop, I'm not that smart.' Used to make me want to scream, because people are usually far more capable than they give themselves credit for. Plus, it's a bullshit excuse.

Either way, I can sympathize.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyNTrainer
I am a weird motherfucker with odd brain wiring, and most people's standard emotional projections about how I must "really" feel about something are usually confusing as hell to me.


Granted. Yet I stand by my statement. Please explain what your motivations were to not simply open a thread and rephrase the subject as an original talking point, if it wasn't to prove a point? Because really, it's only 2 or 3 mouseclick's worth of difference from what you actually did, and the Mod did complain about the state of things in here.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyNTrainer
Your last comment on pro domming wasn't particularly good academic bait however.


Acedemic, no. I was all wordy mostly because I was teasing you. My point was a bridge between some of what I was discussing earlier and the OP's original topic, which was my primary goal; it was clumsy, granted, but I think I pulled it off satisfactorily.

And with that last bit, we come back full circle.  Factors relating to becoming a pro domme. Go.


_____________________________

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"The role of gender in society is the most complicated thing I’ve ever spent a lot of time learning about, and I’ve spent a lot of time learning about quantum mechanics." - Randall Munroe

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RE: What do it takes to become a pro domme? - 10/26/2010 10:56:14 PM   
DMFParadox


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Awesome! An XKCD ref. I've been sitting on one, roughly paraphrased, that says "I hope all the girls that follow The Rules and the guys who're all about The Game get together and leave the rest of us alone." Laughed hard enough to scare the cat at that one. Because that's close to what's happening.

Anyway. Searching for the link.

Found it http://xkcd.com/800/

< Message edited by DMFParadox -- 10/26/2010 11:02:06 PM >


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bloody hell, get me some aspirin and a whiskey straight

"The role of gender in society is the most complicated thing I’ve ever spent a lot of time learning about, and I’ve spent a lot of time learning about quantum mechanics." - Randall Munroe

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RE: What do it takes to become a pro domme? - 10/26/2010 11:00:02 PM   
DMFParadox


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyNTrainer

My personal choice is pre-selecting for clients who don't have anger issues towards women or pro dommes.  It's more drama and risk than is worth dealing with, on a pure cost-benefit equation.   I do cater to clients who appreciate a fair, honest, totally transparent and very professional transaction where everything is clearly negotiated up front and there are no surprises, hidden costs or demands.  But keep in mind that offering kinky personal trainer services is very much a minor sideline for me, and as a result I don't market myself particularly aggressively, or even very effectively for the most part.


That's pretty much the one I expected from you. It raises a good question for someone new to pro to hear: how do you pre-select?


_____________________________

bloody hell, get me some aspirin and a whiskey straight

"The role of gender in society is the most complicated thing I’ve ever spent a lot of time learning about, and I’ve spent a lot of time learning about quantum mechanics." - Randall Munroe

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RE: What do it takes to become a pro domme? - 10/26/2010 11:02:10 PM   
WyldHrt


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quote:

a) Courtesy, as it's popularly understood, can be self-defeating in generating attraction.

If you say so.
quote:

b) this is key - Not all women are built the same. If courtesy really is a turn on for you, then I won't disagree; what I will say is that you are paying for the misbehavior of other women, and you can't lay the burden on the man for conforming to your expectation

Whiplash on the use of  a few 'yous' and a 'your' in the above statement aside, men tend to get quite angry when the situation is reversed and they are told that they are somehow 'paying' for every guy who sends a cockshot, and every guy who sends an 'On your knees, BITCH!' one liner.
quote:

Be aware of the wider dating world. We are taught by hot young 20somethings - the most statistically desirable demographic - that opening doors and paying for dinner does not work. If it works for you, advertise this. And don't criticize men for doing what works. Don't assume.

I have no interest in a man who wants a hot young 20something, let alone one who has been 'taught' how to act by 'the most statistically desirable demographic'. The man who captured my interest is one who is above all true to himself and couldn't care less what others think. I don't really think I'm alone in that preference.
quote:

What's key is that women, even dommes, know this. They hate 'doormats', usually. But they're inconsistent with their signals. Act like a doormat, but don't be one. And if you act like one, you are one.

Big difference between being courteous and being a doormat. I once had a Dom insist on carrying some groceries to the car (I had injured my wrist). Trust me when I say, there was nothing doormattish about his actions.
quote:

Pretty much every post that I wrote after that stemmed from there. I stand by them, but I wanted to get back to what started my rant: courtesy is not the answer. Fucking with women is. You can do it nicely, but you still have to have some teeth showing, or you're just not going to go home with her.

Apparently, the ideas of 'courtesy' and 'showing some teeth' are mutually exclusive for you, and any man who shows manners is some kind of  'doormat'. For many of us, not so much.



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RE: What do it takes to become a pro domme? - 10/26/2010 11:11:38 PM   
DMFParadox


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WH, if I'm not responding to LadyNTrainer on anything but becoming a pro domme (and brief asides that come from it), after the repeated efforts to make this clear, I'm sure as hell not responding to you.

I--we--have been let known there's a problem. I agree, and accept my part of the responsibility here.

Same thing I said to her, start a new thread. If I see it in the morning, I'll reply back.

< Message edited by DMFParadox -- 10/26/2010 11:15:40 PM >


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bloody hell, get me some aspirin and a whiskey straight

"The role of gender in society is the most complicated thing I’ve ever spent a lot of time learning about, and I’ve spent a lot of time learning about quantum mechanics." - Randall Munroe

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RE: What do it takes to become a pro domme? - 10/26/2010 11:26:11 PM   
VideoAdminAlpha


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I'm stepping in here after only reading the last page, so at a huge disadvantage. I think when the genetics are discussed, although not "dead on point" the discussion of them to then discuss what a woman that wants to be a prodomme needs to take into consideration is allowable, even if the OP at the beginning of the thread may or may not have just wanted a "list of necessities". I will point out however, that if you want to get more people involved, a retitle and new thread would in all probablilty get new viewers and hence, more input. I myself erroneously assumed from the title this thread was a possible mirror of the usual "prodomme threads". Just sayin........ :)

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RE: What do it takes to become a pro domme? - 10/27/2010 12:04:28 AM   
LadyNTrainer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DMFParadox
I'll believe this. But I feel the need to point out that most people would claim the same; and they would be misleading themselves. A buddy of mine has a favorite saying about it: "95% of people believe they're the 5% that's different from the rest." In fact, one of the links I previously posted to OkTrends has a statistic that's almost exactly this.


I don't know what the actual percentages are of Aspies and auties, but I do know that I am on the autistic spectrum, and that this is likely to lead to major disconnects between what I say and what most people think I actually mean if they don't know this up front.   Probably the easiest way to explain it is that I operate on a WYSWIG interface, and it can be annoyingly literal.  An autistic child, when asked by the teacher if the dog ate his homework, will cock his head and explain that canines don't include paper products in their diet; though they are not obligate carnivores, they are unable to digest insoluble plant fiber.  Nothing good generally comes of this. 

Fast forward twenty years, and the high functioning autistic adult will have learned that this particular expression is intended to convey a non factual meaning, and s/he probably won't fall for it a second time.  But even a savvy autistic adult is liable to respond in the same vein to novel presentations of non factual meaning, if literal facts are stated with the intent to convey a completely different meaning that has emotional or social freighting.  Understanding this is a very good start to a meaningful bridge in communication.

Stupid I'm not, and I've had a lot of years to study social language and figure out why constructs such as "the dog ate my homework" exist.  But I can still be "gotten" with this kind of thing occasionally, because I natively operate on a solid WYSIWIG interface.  If you go beyond that I may not know why you think I'm communicating something other than what I said.  I can probably take a pretty good guess and even respond with the correct social move if necessary, but in my experience it's more productive to be transparent. Also it helps people on the spectrum who have even more trouble than I do when communicating with weird neurotypical folks who don't run on WYSIWIG.

quote:


Eh, I got 'Doogie' or 'Einstein'. Or just, 'Stop, I'm not that smart.' Used to make me want to scream, because people are usually far more capable than they give themselves credit for. Plus, it's a bullshit excuse.

Either way, I can sympathize.


While I'll stop short of saying that a high functioning autistic brain is objectively any better than a neurotypical brain, I will say that I like mine very much and would not trade my wiring for better social perception.  Sympathy is definitely not required.  I don't see the differing range of function as "better" or "worse" so much as being optimized for different things.  It's just another example of the polymorphism of successful survival traits in Homo sapiens

I am smart.  I am also autistic.  That's not an excuse for anything, or a "poor me" by any means, but it is something that is useful to understand in order to facilitate meaningful communication that doesn't get derailed in the middle because we're speaking different operating systems. 


quote:

Please explain what your motivations were to not simply open a thread and rephrase the subject as an original talking point, if it wasn't to prove a point? Because really, it's only 2 or 3 mouseclick's worth of difference from what you actually did, and the Mod did complain about the state of things in here.


Because I do firmly believe that the economics of gender relations and sex work are intimately related, and that it is a worthy and relevant contribution to the pro domme topic.  I did not read the moderator's comments as being relevant to this portion of the discussion.  My perception may have been incorrect and the moderator may have in fact intended his/her comments to apply to the academic tangent as well as to the "soandso was banned on this other site" tangent.  I await clarification on this subject, with no firm expectations in either direction.  I feel something of a personal stake in encouraging on topic academic discussion, but I recognize that this is not of interest to everyone on a BDSM site. 

Additionally, I was wary of your self-stated proclivity for social game playing, and preferred to act with personal integrity according to my own beliefs, eg, that the academic part of the discussion was in fact on topic.  I do consent to engage in factual and academic dialogue.  I do not consent to engage in social game playing, and I find it difficult to fully understand or clearly perceive another person's intent to do so.  To the best of my ability I will decline to engage on this front and be entirely transparent with regards to my beliefs and motives.  So my awareness of your proclivity to play social games was a factor, in the sense that I might have otherwise given greater weight to what I could have perceived as a courteous request made for practical reasons.   I emphatically do not desire to "one-up" you.  I don't want to win; what I want is not to play.  Subtle but crucial difference. 

Viewing an academic dialogue as having a "winner" or a "loser" is inherently counterproductive, not to mention silly, and it corrupts data.  If you have good data, especially if it is better than mine, I want it.  Your motives are for providing it are irrelevant.  I do not care if I "lose" because your data was better.  If your data is better, I certainly do want to "lose", because that means I gain the better data.  Not much can exasperate and frustrate me more than monkey social status games fucking with the data.  Being emotionally attached to your theories is bad science, and bad science makes me safeword.  I am not my data; I am not even my hypotheses. 


quote:


Acedemic, no. I was all wordy mostly because I was teasing you. My point was a bridge between some of what I was discussing earlier and the OP's original topic, which was my primary goal; it was clumsy, granted, but I think I pulled it off satisfactorily.


Er, you can think so if you want, but it's not my idea of an intellectual climax.  I'm left quite unsatisfied. 

Unfortunately, teasing me can often be about as productive as asking the autistic student if the dog ate his homework, and can have basically the same results.


quote:

And with that last bit, we come back full circle.  Factors relating to becoming a pro domme. Go.


Nope.  Your turn.  Back to selfish genes and red queens, here or on a thread of your choosing, or give up and go home. 


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RE: What do it takes to become a pro domme? - 10/27/2010 12:27:20 AM   
LadyNTrainer


Posts: 1584
Joined: 5/20/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DMFParadox
That's pretty much the one I expected from you. It raises a good question for someone new to pro to hear: how do you pre-select?


The reality is that any woman or TS doing professional sex work (and by sex work I mean anything in the adult industry even if it does not include intercourse or direct genital contact) is at real physical risk if she winds up with a client who has serious anger issues towards women or sex workers.  Not screening for this is a pretty goddamn bad idea, actually.  How to screen for this is largely a matter of common sense and knowing what red flags to look for.

I don't have nearly as good intuitive perception as most people, so I compensate by looking for some specifics in their language and general attitude.  Red flags for me, other than the obvious, often involve inappropriate emotional expression or attachment, whether positive or negative.  Expressions of anger or resentment of any kind, even if framed jokingly, make a client worth watching.  So do inappropriate declarations of love or strong emotional attachment.  If I think there are potentially significant emotional triggers in something a client wants, especially if those triggers are specifically requested, I step very carefully. 

It's impractical to get a full medical and emotional trauma history on every professional client, but I try for at least a sketchy one so I have a chance of knowing where the potential bad buttons are, and if there are any.  I don't immediately do face slapping or rough body play or some forms of bondage with clients who have even started to ring my bells as potentially having emotional minefields or physical triggers.  In particular I'm careful with POW's, anyone who has seen real combat, anyone with a physical trauma history, and anyone with an abuse history.  Any sign of drug use or intoxication and I won't play at all.  I would put on my "watch list" anyone who spoke of a very bad, traumatic past relationship, particularly if they seemed angry or resentful, though that would not automatically disqualify someone if there were no other red flags. 

There's probably more, but this is what's off the top of my head at the moment.  I'm sure others more experienced than I am will have more to add.


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Profile   Post #: 359
RE: What do it takes to become a pro domme? - 10/27/2010 1:15:24 AM   
LadyNTrainer


Posts: 1584
Joined: 5/20/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DMFParadox
Awesome! An XKCD ref. I've been sitting on one, roughly paraphrased, that says "I hope all the girls that follow The Rules and the guys who're all about The Game get together and leave the rest of us alone." Laughed hard enough to scare the cat at that one. Because that's close to what's happening.

Anyway. Searching for the link.

Found it http://xkcd.com/800/


Excellent.  This would also be my fervent desire.

Srsly, this is pretty much accurate as to the geek/nerd point of view.  Neurotypicals are weird to us; they play absolutely bizarre monkey games of lying and misleading and posing and deception instead of being clearly communicative, honest, transparent, and painstakingly truthful.  This is why geeks date other geeks. 

When it comes to sex and dating especially, "normal" people seem majorly fucked in the head, batshit crazy, sociopathic liars, insane, emotionally unstable, et cetera, to most of us geeks.  I can't do that stuff.  More to the point, I don't want to do that stuff, or be around people who do it.  I am honest and transparent even to people I don't particularly like or respect; it's just how I operate normally.  To be otherwise is weird to me, and it feels wrong and creepy.  I can't even conceive of behaving in a misleading or deceptive way towards someone I like and respect enough to want to be intimate with.  The concept just doesn't compute, never mind the fact that I would be absolutely terrible at it even if I was willing to make the attempt.  I don't have the skill set to lie or mislead people effectively, and I have absolutely no interest in acquiring it. 

I wish I did have the skill set to better understand why people do habitually mislead others as to their feelings and intent, and to be able to perceive when they are doing so.  But I'm probably better off not knowing and not seeing, even if I do get suckered at times by people who are better at lying than I am at understanding why and when people lie. 

In some ways this makes me an excellent pro dom, because WYSIWYG.  In other ways, not so much, because a good pro should be intiutive, and I'm definitely not.  It does make me an effective poly dom, IMO, because clear, honest communication and win-win negotiation is my native language.  I may miss subtle nuances if they are not clearly communicated, but my communication skills are excellent because they have to be.  Subtle isn't an option, and neither are hidden agendas, passive aggressive behavior or a failure to communicate.  I don't relate well to neurotypicals, but with other geeks who speak the same language, my relationships tend to run about as smooth and drama-free as anyone could ask for, especially in a poly D/s situation that includes pro work.

< Message edited by LadyNTrainer -- 10/27/2010 1:17:42 AM >


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Profile   Post #: 360
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