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RE: There was an old lady who swallowed a fly.... - 11/11/2010 3:04:13 PM   
subrob1967


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Free government money?

do you even know who pays into that system?


Employers, until the benevolent big brother government kept voting to extend them.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: There was an old lady who swallowed a fly.... - 11/11/2010 3:14:37 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
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Tsk tsk.

Try this instead...

The basic UI system is funded by taxes that employers pay on behalf of their employees. (In a few states, the employee pays part of the tax.) States collect most of these taxes — including the taxes that pay for basic UI benefits — but the federal government collects some of the taxes as well. Temporary emergency federal programs like EUC are funded out of general Treasury funds.

While technically, employers pay both the federal and state taxes, economists generally regard the tax as falling on workers on the theory that the dollars employers pay in tax would otherwise have gone into workers’ paychecks.

The federal tax is set by the Federal Unemployment Tax Act (FUTA) and is equal to 0.8 percent of the first $7,000 paid annually to each employee. [7] This tax is regressive; since most workers earn more than $7,000 per year, most workers are effectively paying the same flat tax of $56 per year regardless of income. FUTA taxes thus represent a much smaller share of the wages of high-wage workers than low-wage workers.

The revenues raised by the federal tax (and the general revenue to support temporary programs like EUC) flow into the federal Unemployment Trust Fund. The fund is maintained in four accounts, each of which has a specific purpose: (1) financing the administrative costs to the states of providing unemployment benefits and offering job location and information services; (2) paying the federal share of the Extended Benefits program; (3) making loans to state unemployment programs that run short of funds; and (4) providing benefits to former federal employees. In addition, Congress can draw on the trust fund to pay for additional temporary federal benefits during recessions.

When federal trust fund balances reach a certain high level, additional transfers are automatically made to the states. These “Reed Act” transfers (named after the 1954 legislation establishing this policy) go directly into state unemployment trust funds. States can use this money only for unemployment insurance but are not required to use it to improve or expand their UI benefits.

States too generate funding for unemployment insurance through a tax on employers. The amount of earnings subject to the tax varies, but in most states, it is less than $10,000. Due to the caps on taxable earnings, the state unemployment insurance tax is, like the federal tax, regressive.

The tax rate applied to these earnings varies not only by state but also by industry; employers in industries with high worker turnover (and therefore a greater likelihood that their employees will apply for unemployment benefits at some point) are generally taxed at a higher rate. In 2008, the average rate applied to taxable earnings was 2.5 percent, but because of the cap on earnings subject to the tax, tax collections were just 0.7 percent of total earnings. These revenues flow into state unemployment trust funds and are used to pay the actual benefits that workers receive under the regular state program, as well as the state share of benefits under the Extended Benefits program.

The huge increase in the number of UI recipients because of the recent recession has put enormous pressure on the UI financing system. States have had to borrow nearly $40 billion so far from the federal Unemployment Trust Fund to fund their unemployment programs. Since unemployment is expected to remain high for some time, such borrowing will likely continue for the next few years.

States are required to fully repay the loans, with interest, within two to three years of borrowing the funds. The Recovery Act waived the interest payments through December 31, 2010, but after this date, interest will begin to accrue. If a state does not repay the full amount, the federal government will recoup its funds by effectively raising the federal tax on employers within the state.[8]


http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=1466

And, before you start with the libera ideology, you may want to read more...

During recessions and while unemployment remains high during recoveries, the federal government has historically created temporary, wholly federally funded programs providing further weeks of benefits. Congress created the most recent such program, Emergency Unemployment Compensation (EUC), in June 2008. Workers who exhaust their regular state UI benefits before they can find a job can receive up to 34 weeks of EUC benefits regardless of their state’s unemployment rate; workers in states with high unemployment rates can receive up to 53 weeks of EUC benefits, as well as EB benefits if their state’s unemployment insurance laws allow it. Some states also may offer additional benefits under separate state-funded programs.

Oh, and, yeah they sure are getting rich off this since they collect only 47% of their former paychecks and they have to declare it as income to the IRS.

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RE: There was an old lady who swallowed a fly.... - 11/11/2010 3:20:40 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
I don't begrudge a guy from eating.

They did not cause this mess.

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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: There was an old lady who swallowed a fly.... - 11/11/2010 5:49:58 PM   
AlwaysLisa


Posts: 1088
Joined: 10/6/2006
From: Washington State
Status: offline
Your not out there looking, are you subrob1967?

I was, and let me tell you, when Walmart opened a new store, there were over 1000 people standing in line.   I'd venture a guess that not one of us, would have refused a job offer, at any payrate.  It's like that all over, grocery stores, large chains, even McD's.   It's an employers market, they can pick and choose, and the one question that came up repeatedly for me, was if I could be happy making considerably less then I was used to.   That was usually a red flag, telling me they were looking for someone used to a lower tax bracket.   It's not beneficial for them to take the time, effort and paperwork training someone, if they will bail as soon as another job comes along.

I'm not in favor of anyone who lounges all day and is able bodied to work, thats not the gist of my post.   I'm more concerned with long term effects and as I see them, people living on the streets don't contribute to society, they take from it.  We don't have a whole lot left to give.

Lisa


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Just an old flower child, trying to survive in today's chaos and confusion.

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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: There was an old lady who swallowed a fly.... - 11/11/2010 5:50:48 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Free government money?

do you even know who pays into that system?

Re-reading your post, i can see that you dont. Employers pay into the unemployment system. Not employees, not the government.



Wrong dear. All of the extensions were government grants not funded through UE insurance.

And it is also a bit disingenous to call proceeds from a government mandated "insurance premium", which is just another name for a tax, "not government money". If that were true than NOTHING is government money.

< Message edited by willbeurdaddy -- 11/11/2010 5:52:51 PM >


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RE: There was an old lady who swallowed a fly.... - 11/11/2010 6:34:49 PM   
kinkbound


Posts: 387
Joined: 9/15/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AlwaysLisa

I realize alot of this is in uncharted waters and purely speculation, but I wonder if this has been thought through.    Our state is starting to end unemployment benefits, the federal aid is running out in April of 2011.   They notified those receiving payments of this fact and advised them to contact the local unemployment office for help in securing a job.

Some have been out of work for over a year and not for lack of looking.  The domino effect is frightening.   Thousands having any sort of financial aid cut off, with no safety net. Homes will go into foreclosure, without income I don't see anyone renting, so they will live in cars? Or on the street?  

Without employment paychecks, there is no SS being paid, no property taxes  collected as homes sit in foreclosure, and with each family on the street, charity org's are stretched to capacity. 

Where we live, the jobs all but cease during winter months, not that it's been real great during the summer.  I don't have answers and I realize the country cannot continue to support people, but there has to be a better way then to pull the rug out from families who are barely making ends meet now.   

It reminds me of the old lady and the fly... 



Those FEMA camps are sure gonna come in handy.

(in reply to AlwaysLisa)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: There was an old lady who swallowed a fly.... - 11/11/2010 6:49:50 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kinkbound


quote:

ORIGINAL: AlwaysLisa

I realize alot of this is in uncharted waters and purely speculation, but I wonder if this has been thought through.    Our state is starting to end unemployment benefits, the federal aid is running out in April of 2011.   They notified those receiving payments of this fact and advised them to contact the local unemployment office for help in securing a job.

Some have been out of work for over a year and not for lack of looking.  The domino effect is frightening.   Thousands having any sort of financial aid cut off, with no safety net. Homes will go into foreclosure, without income I don't see anyone renting, so they will live in cars? Or on the street?  

Without employment paychecks, there is no SS being paid, no property taxes  collected as homes sit in foreclosure, and with each family on the street, charity org's are stretched to capacity. 

Where we live, the jobs all but cease during winter months, not that it's been real great during the summer.  I don't have answers and I realize the country cannot continue to support people, but there has to be a better way then to pull the rug out from families who are barely making ends meet now.   

It reminds me of the old lady and the fly... 



Those FEMA camps are sure gonna come in handy.


Yup.

Google continuity of government for more.  not that the Super dome was such a camp during Katrina.

(in reply to kinkbound)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: There was an old lady who swallowed a fly.... - 11/11/2010 6:50:29 PM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Fellow

quote:

TreasureKY: There are jobs out there.  They aren't glamorous, they aren't high paying, and some actually do require some effort.  There are even some companies out there who would love to find some people who actually want to work.  Sure, a lot of them can't pay premium wages and provide all sorts of benefits, but they often can offer stability and room to move up. 


I think this is a misunderstanding of the situation. There are jobs, but there are no net jobs. It comes down to a competition between the individuals that is a different problem. The same number of people stays unemployed. Steady unemployment means no net job creation. High steady unemployment means decrease in wages. Long term unemployed become very uncompetitive.    Also, the job creation today is in a very narrow range of professions. With high unemployment no experience in these areas means no job. If a teacher applies for a janitor job he/she will not get it. Even people who retrain themselves do not get available jobs (no experience). Things are really bad in some areas.


There's no misunderstanding... you're talking to someone who not only recently ended a 20 year career in Human Resources management, but who now owns a thriving business.

I don't disagree that it is bad in some areas.  I'm not saying that it is easy.  We all faced that "no experience = no job, but no job = no experience" catch 22 when we first entered the work force.  Oddly enough, we manage to get past it eventually.

Oh, and during that 20 year career I did have a brief period where I was unemployed.  My credentials and salary history didn't keep me from picking up not just one, but two minimum wage jobs to fill the three month gap. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: AlwaysLisa

I agree wholeheartedly, let those who abuse the system go live in their cars...but I know, personally, there are an aweful lot of good people who would do anything offered to them, regardless of pay.  Like I said, I don't know how, but there should be something we could do for the honest to goodness seekers.


I sure wish I could find some of those good people.

It is a sad situation, true.  Problem is that there is no way for the Government to weed out the honest-to-goodness seekers.  The only ones I know who have the power to do that are the business owners who have those people show up looking for work.

quote:

ORIGINAL: pogo4pres

quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

It is a shame that those who really need assistance are losing it.  However, there are a great many who have been abusing the system... people who can work... who could work... yet refuse to simply because they are already getting paid to sit at home and play on the internet. 

There are jobs out there.  They aren't glamorous, they aren't high paying, and some actually do require some effort.  There are even some companies out there who would love to find some people who actually want to work.  Sure, a lot of them can't pay premium wages and provide all sorts of benefits, but they often can offer stability and room to move up. 

I've met too many people who just aren't willing to put in the time and effort to find and work for whatever pay they can get.  And just as many who'd rather suffer in anonymity at home on unemployment than be publicly humiliated by taking a lesser job than the last they had.



Ex-fucking-scuse me, but why should I have to suffer a 2 & 1/2 to three dollar an hour pay cut, just to do 40 fucking hours of drone work, when my last job paid me 11.80 an hour for drone work? You really think my bills get paid if I lose 100 to 120 bucks a week?


Thank you for making my point.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Louve00

But I doubt a whole nation of people are quitting their jobs on purpose to collect unemployment and have fun on the internet. 


You cannot collect unemployment if you quit your job.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Dont people have to look for work to be eligible for these benefits?


You'd be surprised at what passes for "actively seeking employment".  Simply submitting your resume on an internet job board ad qualifies.  Wow... that's 5 minutes outta someone's week.

Some states no longer even require that you provide a work search record unless they ask for it.  Less than two years ago, Kentucky only required that you apply for one job per week to qualify.  

Not to mention that with so many on the unemployment rolls, the unemployment offices do not have the manpower necessary to do anything more than random checks to see whether people are really job hunting.

But I won't go into what jokes the unemployment offices are in the first place. 

(in reply to Fellow)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: There was an old lady who swallowed a fly.... - 11/11/2010 6:59:44 PM   
Lucylastic


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I love it, you have almost the entire population of Canada out of work(30 million) and almost the entire pop of the UK(59 million) without some sort of healthcare, and the blame is still on the poor sucking off the system.
The ratio of unemployed to job placements is 5:1 according to the EPI via Bureau of labor statistics.
Treasures post was almost  the conservative meme word for word, just as lame, just as tired and just as wrong as it ever was.
Wilburs idea of forcing all the unemployed in a 9 to 5 situation, and feeding said people is dumb and unworkable, for a start, have you ever spent one single day in any governnment office with unemployed people sitting around even  with ten or twenty computers , I mean a whole day,  eight hours? you are going to need security, food,  and big fema camps to place said people, not to mention the logistics of paying for their travel expenses, the food, the staff , how are you going to arrange it, more government or take away even more of their  human rights
treasure and wilbur come down to the real world because you obviously   are in that "Cant Understand Normal Thinking" spiral
unworkable horrendous, it wont cut costs it will add to the size of government, and make the wrong people look and feel  like criminals
Ignorant and out of touch, and apparently lost without a clue.




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RE: There was an old lady who swallowed a fly.... - 11/11/2010 7:06:23 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
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I dont see any point in blaming the peasants.

They did not cause this mess.


pass me the grey poupon.

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: There was an old lady who swallowed a fly.... - 11/11/2010 7:29:17 PM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

I love it, you have almost the entire population of Canada out of work(30 million) and almost the entire pop of the UK(59 million) without some sort of healthcare, and the blame is still on the poor sucking off the system.
The ratio of unemployed to job placements is 5:1 according to the EPI via Bureau of labor statistics.
Treasures post was almost  the conservative meme word for word, just as lame, just as tired and just as wrong as it ever was.
Wilburs idea of forcing all the unemployed in a 9 to 5 situation, and feeding said people is dumb and unworkable, for a start, have you ever spent one single day in any governnment office with unemployed people sitting around even  with ten or twenty computers , I mean a whole day,  eight hours? you are going to need security, food,  and big fema camps to place said people, not to mention the logistics of paying for their travel expenses, the food, the staff , how are you going to arrange it, more government or take away even more of their  human rights
treasure and wilbur come down to the real world because you obviously   are in that "Cant Understand Normal Thinking" spiral
unworkable horrendous, it wont cut costs it will add to the size of government, and make the wrong people look and feel  like criminals
Ignorant and out of touch, and apparently lost without a clue.


You really need to check where you're getting your numbers.  As of November 5, 2010, the Bureau of Labor Statistics reported the unemployment rate at 14.8 million.  Also, that number has nothing to do with the number of people who have applied for unemployment insurance.  It is arrived at by polling, and includes persons of many different unemployment categories.  For example, that 14.8 million gets further reduced by this statement:
The number of long-term unemployed (those jobless for 27 weeks and
over) was about unchanged over the month at 6.2 million.
That's quite a difference from your claimed "30 million" unemployed.

I suspect your uninsured numbers are equally as "hinky".

If your idea of "normal thinking" precludes critical thinking, then I'm just as happy to stay away from it.  I'll stick to the facts, thank you.

Oh, and by the way... I said nothing about the poor sucking off the system.  Are you insinuating that the only perpetrators of fraud are the poor?


< Message edited by TreasureKY -- 11/11/2010 7:40:51 PM >

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: There was an old lady who swallowed a fly.... - 11/11/2010 7:49:51 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
Umm. Lucy is from Canada. 

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: There was an old lady who swallowed a fly.... - 11/11/2010 7:53:13 PM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

Umm. Lucy is from Canada. 


Yes, and... did you think she was claiming that nearly the entire country of Canada is out of work?

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: There was an old lady who swallowed a fly.... - 11/11/2010 8:00:57 PM   
Brain


Posts: 3792
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Third World America: Why I Wrote the Book and What We Need to Do to Save America's Middle Class

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: There was an old lady who swallowed a fly.... - 11/11/2010 8:09:34 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

I love it, you have almost the entire population of Canada out of work(30 million)
quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

Umm. Lucy is from Canada. 


Yes, and... did you think she was claiming that nearly the entire country of Canada is out of work?



I love it, you have almost the entire population of Canada out of work(30 million) /snip

(in reply to TreasureKY)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: There was an old lady who swallowed a fly.... - 11/11/2010 8:12:13 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AlwaysLisa

I realize alot of this is in uncharted waters and purely speculation, but I wonder if this has been thought through.    Our state is starting to end unemployment benefits, the federal aid is running out in April of 2011.   They notified those receiving payments of this fact and advised them to contact the local unemployment office for help in securing a job.

Some have been out of work for over a year and not for lack of looking.  The domino effect is frightening.   Thousands having any sort of financial aid cut off, with no safety net.  Homes will go into foreclosure, without income I don't see anyone renting, so they will live in cars?  Or on the street?  

Without employment paychecks, there is no SS being paid, no property taxes  collected as homes sit in foreclosure, and with each family on the street, charity org's are stretched to capacity. 

Where we live, the jobs all but cease during winter months, not that it's been real great during the summer.  I don't have answers and I realize the country cannot continue to support people, but there has to be a better way then to pull the rug out from families who are barely making ends meet now.   

It reminds me of the old lady and the fly... 



What I find troubling here is the idea that without the government, people have no safety net at all, and will just fall to living in cars, or on the streets.

Whatever happened to family and friends? I know families who have lost the house, and they are shoehorned in at grandma's. I have friends who've been put out of their apartments, and while a lot of their shit was in the car, they had a couch pass. It's something that human beings do for each other.

How we provide what we do in gov't aid could sure use some reform, though.

_____________________________

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That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to AlwaysLisa)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: There was an old lady who swallowed a fly.... - 11/11/2010 8:42:16 PM   
AlwaysLisa


Posts: 1088
Joined: 10/6/2006
From: Washington State
Status: offline
quote:

What I find troubling here is the idea that without the government, people have no safety net at all, and will just fall to living in cars, or on the streets


It is troubling.  There are an aweful lot of folks who live paycheck to paycheck, never saving for that "rainy day".  When one breadwinner looses income, it's often just enough of a push to send them over the edge.  I could go on and on about living within means, but thats another topic :)

As for family and friends, I'm sure a small percentage will be able to crash in Aunt Tilly's basement, but there are some who don't have an elderly relative, a parent, or sibling that can provide room.   During the depression, people shoved as many as they could into small one or two room flats, hanging curtains for dividers, ect.   If you know a person willing to do this, we could get those families out of their station wagons.  We live in such a small community, no YMCA, or shelter available, but that would certainly be an option if you could find one. 

I'm just having a hard time finding the light that will guide us out of this mess.  I keep remembering the line from Finding Nemo.."just keep swimming", it's all we can do! 


_____________________________

Just an old flower child, trying to survive in today's chaos and confusion.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: There was an old lady who swallowed a fly.... - 11/11/2010 8:46:28 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Free government money?

do you even know who pays into that system?

Re-reading your post, i can see that you dont. Employers pay into the unemployment system. Not employees, not the government.



Wrong dear. All of the extensions were government grants not funded through UE insurance.

And it is also a bit disingenous to call proceeds from a government mandated "insurance premium", which is just another name for a tax, "not government money". If that were true than NOTHING is government money.


Read the whole thread before making assumptions again, willbe. Btw, some people do pay into the UE system, depending on the state.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: There was an old lady who swallowed a fly.... - 11/11/2010 8:48:42 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Oh, and during that 20 year career I did have a brief period where I was unemployed. My credentials and salary history didn't keep me from picking up not just one, but two minimum wage jobs to fill the three month gap.


And during what recessionary period did you look for those jobs?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to TreasureKY)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: There was an old lady who swallowed a fly.... - 11/11/2010 10:47:35 PM   
kinkbound


Posts: 387
Joined: 9/15/2007
Status: offline
quote:

If you know a person willing to do this, we could get those families out of their station wagons. We live in such a small community, no YMCA, or shelter available, but that would certainly be an option if you could find one.


I'll bet these'll get popular again:

http://chicago.craigslist.org/wcl/cto/2042619761.html

(in reply to AlwaysLisa)
Profile   Post #: 40
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