DMFParadox
Posts: 1405
Joined: 9/11/2007
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I'm glad you wrote this.
quote:
ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss
For all the posturing and nonsense that is happening on the boards (thank goodness the "hide" button works; I've resorted to it once again), the reality is that life as a woman is not the same as life is as a man.
Plus 1.
quote:
ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss
... live in very different perspectives. Men walk down the street at night and think how peaceful and calm it is and dang it's cold. "I gotta get to where I'm going and get warm." Women think how lonely and dark it is and what is going on behind those trees over there, what was that sound, "I gotta get to safety."
Truth. But not.
Men worry about the shadows too; not as much. But more importantly...
Men see women act frightened of them.
I dress nicely, am clean cut and I'm told extremely good looking. But I see women walk to the other side of the street if they see me coming, they're alone, and I'm alone.
Further.
I instinctively veer off from approaching women; My first reaction is almost always, "look harmless, act like you don't notice, walk away." If I'm attracted to a woman, I must overcome this instinct; and every now and then, I overcompensate. So do most men.
quote:
ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss
Arturas is right that there is a certain "prey" mentality that women *must* have in order to - no I'm not talking about having fun sex but instead to... wait for it... save our lives!
Who the heck wants to be with a date rapist? Geesh.
More women than you'd think.
This... this... is what bothers me the most about our society.
Point blank: women want predatory men. Not all of them. But enough.
...They just don't want so many of them.
More, the conflicting signals that men recieve, are enough to a)make everything a woman states about her own desires untrustworthy; b) make 'rape' practically mandatory, in some minds; c) make other men so afraid of even talking to women that they spend months, years, decades, alone. Because their efforts end up with either a creeped out girl, or 'friend zone' because they weren't creepy enough. Forward enough. 'Confident' enough. Call it whatever you fucking want.
Denying that this is a problem, putting the whole of the burden on predatory men, makes predatory men.
There is not a minority of women giving conflicting signals. This is endemic to dating.
quote:
ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss
Nothing wrong with playing or having fun on the first date if you feel comfortable.
Define comfortable. Be careful, because your definition is not universal, no matter what it is.
Believe me, I know what you mean; some people can sense this. With practice. But it is not a given at all that a woman's giving of the vibes she thinks she is. The truth about tone and body language is that, just as it can be very informative, it can also be very misleading.
Further, I frequently find that 'being comfortable' isn't enough; many women often 'test' my confidence and self image by throwing up the ol' bitch shield. Sometimes, I walk away. But I can't get netted about it every time, because it happens with almost every woman at some point in the attraction period. And there have been times when I completely ignored it and ended up with a very happy girl. And a few times, an unhappy one, because I read the signals wrong.
Though I can remember one or two women vividly that never did raise a 'bitch shield' at any point, but they were rare, rare gems indeed. Too rare to count on.
If I waited for a clear 'go ahead', I'd still be a virgin. Which I respect, I have no problems with virgins, but I have a sex drive. Sorry.
quote:
ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss
We do new folks a disservice when we tell them that it's ok for them to just blindly follow some man who slaps a "dom" label on his ass. Rapists will find new "submissive" women easy prey.
Psshht. Now THAT is bullshit. Women who self-identify as BDSM submissives are usually a LOT cagier and defense-minded than mainstream women (who are already playing defense most of the time) so it's much tougher to find one who 'blindly follows' a damned thing.
Whether they're 'new' or not.
quote:
ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss
Was he about to rape and abuse me? The answer is YES. He was about to rape and abuse you.
How do I know? Because he tricked and lied to her. If he had been with a woman who wanted him, he wouldn't have needed to do that.
Maybe. But you go too far in assuring her this was a fact in the making.
quote:
ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss
Men have been taught (at least they were 20 or so years ago) that women will say no when they mean no.
Still are. There are laws, even.
If women's actions were congruent with this stated desire, then life would be a lot easier for everyone. As it is, I tend to assume it's true and back away; further, even if a woman later changes her mind - which is more often than not - I ignore her. Petty of me, but I get so tired of the bullshit. I've taken the stance that if you test me with a clear NO, I will tear the paper in half and leave the room, and I don't give a shit if you change your mind in this lifetime or just meant to say 'Moo' or some shit. It's just too dangerous to mess around with. Being a man is practically fucking illegal. And that approach... It works for me. I just try to avoid phrasing a question a woman will feel obligated to say no to; I hint, innuendo, and tell convenient, obvious but comforting lies.
But I see so often the misery 'no means no' causes others, men and women both, because shit-testing is something women do almost instinctively. I.E., they'll send out some retarded complaint or negation, some reason why they couldn't possibly do it tonight, and wait to see who falls over themselves to please them and agree; then completely ignore those men. Forever castrated. It's painful to observe. And it makes the sincerely expressed desires of the majority of women completely untrustworthy.
quote:
ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss
Nothing wrong with a man being a man, wanting what he wants and going after it. Nothing wrong with a woman submitting *to her desires*. Women need to be clear and say no when she means no. Men need to be clear about that.
Yep. But to be clear, this often means that the same exact action can be interpreted as good or evil, arrogant or confident, rape or dominance. I'm sorry. But the battle lines are a mess.
quote:
ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss
Nothing wrong with a one night stand, playing on the first date, etc. However, there is something very wrong in two ways with the scenario the OP presented - he tricked her. She didn't follow her gut.
Let me tell you the story of a word. The word is 'slut'. And a good number of women will go to any length, climb any mountain, and accept any cover story in order to avoid admitting that they're interested and willing to have sex... because of that word, and the connotations thereof.
I'll never ask a woman to go to my house and have sex with me. I consider it crude and offensive to most women's sensibilities. I'll hint, suggest, then say 'Why don't we stop by my place to pick up a few things', or similar.
By criticizing this part of the story, you're demonstrating your lack of etiquette. Some women will embrace the idea of having a good fuck. Others want it, but will do anything to avoid the idea of sluttiness, even if the subtext is blatant, you must never be blatant about it until she's committed. If you prefer the direct approach, fine; but most women do not, until they've committed to it somehow. Usually by a hot scene in the living room.
quote:
ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss
If this is the 3rd time, I'd say she's tempted the Fates quite enough, and it's going to get her. Soon. Let's hope she learns before that.
I haven't been blaming her at alll up to this point; she did fine in leaving if she felt uncomfortable. I was just answering her question - "was he wrong?"
My answer was yes, because he showed a lack of style once he got her in the house.
My approach would have been to simply kiss her, then ask if she wants to stay for a bit. If I got a yes then, I might get all D if I was feeling it. He triggered the 'I'm Not A Slut!' defense with the good submissive comment he made, made himself look like a tool, and killed the mood.
But.
I haven't addressed the 'third time' comment. OP, if this is a pattern, you need to look closely at the kind of experience you want - visualize it. Go on dates, from start to bedroom, in your mind, and have a clear idea of what kind of seduction scenario would work for you.
Fantasize being seduced, and fantasize it in a realistic way. The guy's clumsy. He makes lame jokes. He's human. And you want him anyway.
That will give you a much better grasp of how to control a date from your side of things, so that you stop having this sort of nonsense happen. If the signals aren't meshing with your visualization, hit the abort button. If they are but he accidentally throws a curveball, look hard to see if it's him being a doof or you being a judgmental bitch. Pardon the french, just how I roll.
< Message edited by DMFParadox -- 11/15/2010 7:09:04 PM >
_____________________________
bloody hell, get me some aspirin and a whiskey straight
"The role of gender in society is the most complicated thing I’ve ever spent a lot of time learning about, and I’ve spent a lot of time learning about quantum mechanics." - Randall Munroe
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RE: cooth, uncooth whose to say? - 
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There are polite predators and then there are... real predators. (And) Some mates are food damn it! 
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