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RE: What do you think of Aetheists? - 11/28/2010 1:56:17 PM   
GotSteel


Posts: 5871
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
It's pretty easy - Conehats and Aconehats die.

If Aconehat was right and the Conehat was wrong, both end up as dust, and the Conehat has paid no price for being wrong (believing the Big Bang was a unicorn orgy and wearing a cone upon his head in order to worship the pointy creators)

BUT...

If Conehat was right and the Aconehat was wrong, the chances are the Aconehat goes to the Pointy Pointy Bad Place, the Conehat goes to Unicorn Fun Land (it's AWE-SOME I mean they even fart rainbows!).

That's about it...cut it any way you like, committing to Aconehatism is a much higher risk, for no greater reward.

Jaybeee, I've been eagerly waiting to find out, are you wearing a cone?

(in reply to Jaybeee)
Profile   Post #: 421
RE: What do you think of Aetheists? - 11/28/2010 3:31:41 PM   
CallaFirestormBW


Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
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quote:

You cannot, in normal everyday English be "religious" without also being a theist. Theism is the defining feature of religion.


This is a false statement. Buddhism is a religion. It is NOT theistic. Illuminance Fellowship is a religion. It is not theistic. There are also sects of the Quakers, Jainists, and Hindus that are non-theistic. In addition, the Secular Humanists also are a religion that is actively -Atheistic-, rather than just non-theistic.

It is possible to be "religious", meaning that one follows a particular set of tenets that one considers one's "religion" and not be a theist, a deist, or anything else having to do with a god or gods. I know. I'm an Illuminist (Illuminance Fellowship).

Oh, and all of these are in "normal everyday English".

Calla


_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

(in reply to tweakabelle)
Profile   Post #: 422
RE: What do you think of Aetheists? - 11/28/2010 3:41:21 PM   
CallaFirestormBW


Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
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quote:

That's about it...cut it any way you like, committing to Aconehatism is a much higher risk, for no greater reward.


I have to comment on this. I wasn't going to, but I guess getting tattooed didn't satisfy my fetish for masochism this week.

1. if this is the ONLY reason that someone is choosing a belief structure, that individual is not a "believer", xhe is an OPPORTUNIST trying to pass hirself OFF as a believer... My reasoning? If the only reason someone is doing something is to assure either their own safety or in order to get something they want, that behavior is called "manipulation", and should, in no way, be confused with actual -participation- in that belief structure.

2. I disagree with the foundation premise of the statement " committing to Aconehatism is a much higher risk, for no greater reward" on personal principle. I believe that the worst possible outcome is the loss of my self-respect and self-honesty. If an individual does not truly believe/have faith with NO expectation of reward for that belief, then that individual has sold out hir SELF... essentially sold hir soul for the bribe of a pleasant "afterlife". To me, it seems that that individual is already living in hir own self-made hell, forced into a life that xhe doesn't believe in for a tenuous "reward" that cannot be proved.

JMTC.

Calla


_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

(in reply to GotSteel)
Profile   Post #: 423
RE: What do you think of Aetheists? - 11/28/2010 4:42:48 PM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

quote:

You cannot, in normal everyday English be "religious" without also being a theist. Theism is the defining feature of religion.


This is a false statement. Buddhism is a religion. It is NOT theistic. Illuminance Fellowship is a religion. It is not theistic. There are also sects of the Quakers, Jainists, and Hindus that are non-theistic. In addition, the Secular Humanists also are a religion that is actively -Atheistic-, rather than just non-theistic.

It is possible to be "religious", meaning that one follows a particular set of tenets that one considers one's "religion" and not be a theist, a deist, or anything else having to do with a god or gods. I know. I'm an Illuminist (Illuminance Fellowship).

Oh, and all of these are in "normal everyday English".

Calla



religion

Pronunciation:/rɪˈlɪdʒ(ə)n/
noun
[mass noun]
the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power , especially a personal God or gods
http://oxforddictionaries.com/view/entry/m_en_gb0699400#m_en_gb0699400


< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 11/28/2010 4:45:58 PM >

(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)
Profile   Post #: 424
RE: What do you think of Aetheists? - 11/28/2010 4:45:13 PM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline 		sorry when it come down to arguing what everyday words mean i'm over it
Good luck all

(in reply to tweakabelle)
Profile   Post #: 425
RE: What do you think of Aetheists? - 11/28/2010 4:53:29 PM   
CallaFirestormBW


Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
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quote:

EmailCite
Text size: A
A
religion
Line-break:OnOff
Pronunciation:/rɪˈlɪdʒ(ə)n/
noun
[mass noun]
the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power , especially a personal God or gods:
http://oxforddictionaries.com/view/entry/m_en_gb0699400#m_en_gb0699400


If you're going to hand-pick definitions, you'd best be thorough if you plan on using them as an effective argument. Please note the bolded definitions, which do not require 'deity' to be considered as valid definitions. On a purely practical basis, the fact that there are religions which do not require deity automatically supersedes any definition which -requires- such. Religions without diety exist. Therefore, "religion" does NOT require deity. Period.


re·li·gion
–noun
1.
a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2.
a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3.
the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
4.
the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
5.
the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.
6.
something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice.
7.
religions, Archaic . religious rites.
8.
Archaic . strict faithfulness; devotion: a religion to one's vow.
—Idiom
9.
get religion, Informal .
a.
to acquire a deep conviction of the validity of religious beliefs and practices.
b.
to resolve to mend one's errant ways: The company got religion and stopped making dangerous products

< Message edited by CallaFirestormBW -- 11/28/2010 4:55:46 PM >

_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

(in reply to tweakabelle)
Profile   Post #: 426
RE: What do you think of Aetheists? - 11/28/2010 8:55:55 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

tazzygirl, in normal everyday English:

a belief system including theism = religion
a belief system excluding theism = (secular) philosophy/ideology

Therefore when you say " I am religious" it must include saying "I am a theist". You cannot, in normal everyday English be "religious" without also being a theist. Theism is the defining feature of religion.

Either you are aware of this - and therefore deliberately misleading everyone else here - or you are unaware of this - in which case you need to re-learn simple English.

Your choice and I wish you well with whatever option you choose.*

Please excuse my directness but i feel you have left me with no other choice.



*It is just possible, but unlikely, that these words carry different connotations in the USA than the rest of the English speaking world. I rather doubt it but if that is in fact the case, please accept my apologies.


Its just possible that you are not as well read as you believe yourself to be.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nontheistic_religions

http://www.selectsmart.com/FREE/select.php?client=atheistphilo

http://www.phy.duke.edu/~rgb/Philosophy/god_theorem/god_theorem/node22.html

(Gotta love the Quakers)

Quakers are most definitely non-theists, rejecting creed in the form of theistic revelations that must be clung to against all reason and common sense (where the latter, after all, is an important part of that inner light that illuminates each person's search for truth) while still retaining doctrine - the idea that sure, there have been inspired people in the past who have written things that are well worth reading and that can help lead one to truth, and that some of those writings give a loose structure to the Society of Friends.

http://www.phy.duke.edu/~rgb/Philosophy/god_theorem/god_theorem/node25.html

http://www.atheistnexus.org/group/nontheisticreligion

http://www.ask.com/wiki/Nontheism?qsrc=3044#Nontheistic_religions

Reading does help broaden the mind.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to tweakabelle)
Profile   Post #: 427
RE: What do you think of Aetheists? - 11/28/2010 8:56:57 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Thank you Calla for pointing out the difference.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)
Profile   Post #: 428
RE: What do you think of Aetheists? - 11/28/2010 9:38:35 PM   
GotSteel


Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW
In addition, the Secular Humanists also are a religion that is actively -Atheistic-, rather than just non-theistic.

I agree with your point but disagree with this example. I'm under the impression that Secular Humanism is a philosophy as opposed to a religion. At least that seems to be how they self identify.

(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)
Profile   Post #: 429
RE: What do you think of Aetheists? - 11/28/2010 10:03:26 PM   
thompsonx


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Joined: 10/1/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

quote:

fighting is for adolescent morons

This is precisely why I put the question to you in the first place.




Would it be a mischaracterization to say that you are not,therefore, interested in discussion?

(in reply to Icarys)
Profile   Post #: 430
RE: What do you think of Aetheists? - 11/28/2010 10:20:10 PM   
GotSteel


Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline 		Yeah Pascal's Wager is full of issues but I haven't had a lot of success getting theists that use Pascal's Wager to grasp that by pointing the problems out. I'm hoping that presenting the gambit with a different deity will let Jaybeee see it from a different angle and gain an understanding of why it isn't working when he uses it on non-theists.

(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)
Profile   Post #: 431
RE: What do you think of Aetheists? - 11/29/2010 6:08:13 AM   
Icarys


Posts: 5757
Status: offline
quote:

Would it be a mischaracterization to say that you are not,therefore, interested in discussion?

With someone that's an adolescent moron, such as yourself? Absolutely not.


_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
http://tinyurl.com/872mcu3
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(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 432
RE: What do you think of Aetheists? - 11/29/2010 6:17:25 AM   
Icarys


Posts: 5757
Status: offline 		Not that you are wrong of course here but I figured we'd get another definition out there.

Theism
(thzm)n. Belief in the existence of a god or gods, especially belief in a personal God as creator and ruler of the world.

_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
http://tinyurl.com/872mcu3
http://alturl.com/mog7m

(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)
Profile   Post #: 433
RE: What do you think of Aetheists? - 11/29/2010 6:20:48 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

quote:

Would it be a mischaracterization to say that you are not,therefore, interested in discussion?

With someone that's an adolescent moron, such as yourself? Absolutely not.



You are clearly better at name calling than discussion so it is probably best that you not embarass yourself further by exposing the depth of your ignorance in a discussion with me.
Please do try to enjoy your self imposed ignorance.

(in reply to Icarys)
Profile   Post #: 434
RE: What do you think of Aetheists? - 11/29/2010 6:39:37 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

Not that you are wrong of course here but I figured we'd get another definition out there.

Theism
(thzm)n. Belief in the existence of a god or gods, especially belief in a personal God as creator and ruler of the world.


This definition isnt in dispute, at least from my stand point.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Icarys)
Profile   Post #: 435
RE: What do you think of Aetheists? - 11/29/2010 6:55:16 AM   
Icarys


Posts: 5757
Status: offline
quote:

This definition isnt in dispute, at least from my stand point.

Someone made a claim about you being pro-theistic so I was showing the definition of.

Did I say it was in dispute BTW?


< Message edited by Icarys -- 11/29/2010 6:58:28 AM >

_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
http://tinyurl.com/872mcu3
http://alturl.com/mog7m

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 436
RE: What do you think of Aetheists? - 11/29/2010 6:56:50 AM   
Icarys


Posts: 5757
Status: offline
quote:

You are clearly better at name calling than discussion so it is probably best that you not embarass yourself further by exposing the depth of your ignorance in a discussion with me.
Please do try to enjoy your self imposed ignorance.

Sure sure.


_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
http://tinyurl.com/872mcu3
http://alturl.com/mog7m

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 437
RE: What do you think of Aetheists? - 11/29/2010 6:59:17 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		I don't see all the dictionary fuss here.

I think aetheists are some damn swell fellers.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Icarys)
Profile   Post #: 438
RE: What do you think of Aetheists? - 11/29/2010 7:02:21 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		I think some atheists are too, Master Ron. I think some have a few screws missing and are as fanatical in their thinking as some religious nut cases.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 439
RE: What do you think of Aetheists? - 11/29/2010 7:03:42 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Naaa... my beliefs would make some heads explode. LOL... best not to go there But they are hardly in line with the "god as creator and ruler" bit.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Icarys)
Profile   Post #: 440
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