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ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious

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ORIGINAL: xssve

When it's a non consensual relationship, that's when.

And who are you to state that it's non-consensual? If you're going to rely on her legal status as your reason I will remind you that a relationship which contains ultraviolence is illegal no matter her legal status-the law draws the line well before issues of consent.

If you admit that a consensual ultraviolent relationship is ok (which is implied in saying that only a lack of consent gives you the right to object) then you're already beyond the line the law has drawn, so it seems pathetically weak to insist on a legal assessment of competence for a person to consent.

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ORIGINAL: BonesFromAsh

If your (general) dynamic involves extreme physical "interaction" (some folks might call it abuse), ie broken bones and the like, or extreme mental "interaction" (again, some might call it abuse), at what point does it become more than just YOUR dynamic?

Is there a point or is it all just a private thing to be kept out of the public eye?

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At what point DOES it (the dynamic of M/s) become more than just the business of those involved?

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ORIGINAL: BonesFromAsh
LadyPact commented on another thread that domestic abuse laws are what most folks in a relationship involving bdsm need to be concerned with. That being the case...I ask where does private consent end and public intervention begin?

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ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious

FR

I've been thinking a lot about this recently-some friends of mine are into ultraviolence (or at least that's what it's called here-I don't think I've ever seen an American use the term) and my own reactions to their play have scared me a little bit-I'm wondering if I'm really as much of a fluffy sadist as I think I am.

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ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious
I think it comes down to adult responsibility-if a consenting adult wishes to be in a relationship that may cause them to be physically damaged, and is willing to accept that risk (where accepting that risk also means being willing to deal with any consequences) then who am I to tell them, from outside their relationship, that it's not ok?

Somebody said on the other thread that we're all off the edge of the map here, and that's true. xssve is kidding himself if he thinks that he wouldn't be pilloried by society just as badly as daddysprop's master, and if it weren't for the fact that I'm a young and attractive female I probably would be too. He's saying the line is clear, not fuzzy, but the fact is that most people would draw the line waaaaaaay before where he's standing and he rejects that (as we've all done, really) because he's decided that he knows better-he knows there are fulfilling relationships to be had beyond the commonly accepted line. How is he then to complain when another person does exactly the same thing with exactly the same knowledge to the line he's drawn further along?

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So as to not further derail sunshinemiss's most excellent Hanky Spanky thread, I wanted to ask a question about TPE M/s relationships.

At what point DOES it (the dynamic of M/s) become more than just the business of those involved? There have been a couple of interesting cases recently that have brought that question to the forefront, in a legal sense, and it it has me wondering.

If your (general) dynamic involves extreme physical "interaction" (some folks might call it abuse), ie broken bones and the like, or extreme mental "interaction" (again, some might call it abuse), at what point does it become more than just YOUR dynamic?

Is there a point or is it all just a private thing to be kept out of the public eye?

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ORIGINAL: Kana

Experience here.
I have a friend who is a hard core maso, as in real hard core. Doesn't play in public because people get too freaked, and that's at what she would call foreplay, not even anything rough.
She has been with the same guy forever. Their relationship crosses back and forth between what I would label abuse and extreme S/M edge play.
He's a huge and brutal guy, as in over 6'5, 300 pounds, highly physical. He;s hurt her badly before and will again in the future. One fine afternoon she looked at me and said, "I expect he will kill me one day."
Not a dramatic statement, not a cry for help, just a calm assessment of the facts as she saw them.
This is a lady who is smart, competent, beautiful, vibrant. She is actively involved in BDSM community (No held hostage and isolated syndrome here) and touches and teaches others. She works in the medical field for Gods sake. She's dated others over the years, had great guys dominate her, but none fill her need the way the brute does.
I don't have to like her decision. I don't have to understand her decision. What I can do is accept the fact that she is a rational person making the decision that she thinks is best in her life. She's a grown woman and entitled to that respect. As a friend, I can give her the right, the dignity, to be right or wrong in her own life.
I think she deserves that.

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I know I certainly don't like others making such calls in my life.I do some stuff that others may consider waaaaay out on the edge, but if an outsider wandered in and started telling me what I could/or could not do, I would be deeply offended and it's a safe bet that the intruder would walk away with ears a-blistered.I'm an adult, been one for a long time. I make the decisions that I think are right for me and mine. As long as she willingly consents, then there is no problem.
Again, this is based on the concepts that the people involve aren't insane, minors and that they are competent enough to make rational decisions in their own life.
Now, I can see some people raising some ethical questions re using health insurance to pay for Dr's visits, but that's a different thread.

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ORIGINAL: Kana

Experience here.
I have a friend who is a hard core maso, as in real hard core. Doesn't play in public because people get too freaked, and that's at what she would call foreplay, not even anything rough.
She has been with the same guy forever. Their relationship crosses back and forth between what I would label abuse and extreme S/M edge play.
He's a huge and brutal guy, as in over 6'5, 300 pounds, highly physical. He;s hurt her badly before and will again in the future. One fine afternoon she looked at me and said, "I expect he will kill me one day."
Not a dramatic statement, not a cry for help, just a calm assessment of the facts as she saw them.

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This is a lady who is smart, competent, beautiful, vibrant. She is actively involved in BDSM community (No held hostage and isolated syndrome here) and touches and teaches others. She works in the medical field for Gods sake. She's dated others over the years, had great guys dominate her, but none fill her need the way the brute does.

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I don't have to like her decision. I don't have to understand her decision. What I can do is accept the fact that she is a rational person making the decision that she thinks is best in her life.

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She's a grown woman and entitled to that respect. As a friend, I can give her the right, the dignity, to be right or wrong in her own life.
I think she deserves that.

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I know I certainly don't like others making such calls in my life.I do some stuff that others may consider waaaaay out on the edge, but if an outsider wandered in and started telling me what I could/or could not do, I would be deeply offended and it's a safe bet that the intruder would walk away with ears a-blistered.I'm an adult, been one for a long time. I make the decisions that I think are right for me and mine.

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As long as she willingly consents, then there is no problem.
Again, this is based on the concepts that the people involve aren't insane, minors and that they are competent enough to make rational decisions in their own life.

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Now, I can see some people raising some ethical questions re using health insurance to pay for Dr's visits, but that's a different thread.