quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

I truly tire of this "rights vs. privileges" argument.

It relies on the notion that you have no basic human rights other than what the government grants.

And exactly which "basic human right" are they infringing?

You do not think it is a human right to be free from search when you have committed no crime? -Prove that, for yourself, AND for everyone else standing in the security line at the airport.

And as far as your claim that it cannot be challenged constitutionally you may want to check the fourth amendment.

FindLaw: U.S. Constitution: Fourth Amendment

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches -define "unreasonable" and seizures, shall not be violated,-define "violated" and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause -that would be those incidences of firearms, bombs, and other weapons of various degrees of destruction that have previously been carried onto aircraft and used to assist in carrying out terroristic threats, death and destruction, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched -that would be your outer body, unless they find something to be seized on your body, and the persons or things to be seized. [/color]-that would be things like firearms, bombs, or other weapons of various degrees of destruction that have previously been carried onto aircraft and used to assist in carrying out terroristic threats, death and destruction.

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ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I am going to guess that, they (whoever the hell they is...) also has the 'right' to deny anyone that does not comply, access to the flight.

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ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I am going to guess that, they (whoever the hell they is...) also has the 'right' to deny anyone that does not comply, access to the flight.

So then any business can establish procedures at their will that are completely intrusive?

We already have them at airports, NFL games, and rock concerts.

Do you want to be patted down before you can enter the Wal-Mart, CVS, or the grocery store?

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ORIGINAL: subrob1967

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ORIGINAL: DomKen

Some facts to counter the hysteria.

The infamous video of the boy being searched with his shirt off. He had set off the scanner and his father had removed his shirt to speed up the rescreening. TSA did not force the boy to take off his shirt.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/11/22/lawmakers-seek-probe-tsas-pat-training-reported-misbehavior/

The use of the full body scanner and the meticulous pat downs for people who refuse to be scanned and for those who set off the scanner is a minimum to prevent weapons and explosives getting on planes. There is plenty of documentation that earleir security measures were easily beaten. This isn't safety at any cost. Any cost would be the incredibly invasive El Al screening system which would bring air travel to a standstill. The present system is a compromise between safety and privacy.

Since handguns are illegal in Chicago, you would consent to have the CPD have the authority to randomly select people on the street for pat downs, right?

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ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

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ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I am going to guess that, they (whoever the hell they is...) also has the 'right' to deny anyone that does not comply, access to the flight.

So then any business can establish procedures at their will that are completely intrusive?

We already have them at airports, NFL games, and rock concerts.

Do you want to be patted down before you can enter the Wal-Mart, CVS, or the grocery store?

BINGO!    Yup.   THIS.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

I truly tire of this "rights vs. privileges" argument.

It relies on the notion that you have no basic human rights other than what the government grants.

And exactly which "basic human right" are they infringing?

You do not think it is a human right to be free from search when you have committed no crime?

And as far as your claim that it cannot be challenged constitutionally you may want to check the fourth amendment.

FindLaw: U.S. Constitution: Fourth Amendment

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I am going to guess that, they (whoever the hell they is...) also has the 'right' to deny anyone that does not comply, access to the flight.

So then any business can establish procedures at their will that are completely intrusive?

We already have them at airports, NFL games, and rock concerts.

Do you want to be patted down before you can enter the Wal-Mart, CVS, or the grocery store?

quote:

ORIGINAL: windchymes

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

I truly tire of this "rights vs. privileges" argument.

It relies on the notion that you have no basic human rights other than what the government grants.

And exactly which "basic human right" are they infringing?

You do not think it is a human right to be free from search when you have committed no crime? -Prove that, for yourself, AND for everyone else standing in the security line at the airport.

And as far as your claim that it cannot be challenged constitutionally you may want to check the fourth amendment.

FindLaw: U.S. Constitution: Fourth Amendment

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches -define "unreasonable" and seizures, shall not be violated,-define "violated" and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause -that would be those incidences of firearms, bombs, and other weapons of various degrees of destruction that have previously been carried onto aircraft and used to assist in carrying out terroristic threats, death and destruction, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched -that would be your outer body, unless they find something to be seized on your body, and the persons or things to be seized. [/color]-that would be things like firearms, bombs, or other weapons of various degrees of destruction that have previously been carried onto aircraft and used to assist in carrying out terroristic threats, death and destruction.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

You do not think it is a human right to be free from search when you have committed no crime? -Prove that, for yourself, AND for everyone else standing in the security line at the airport.

And as far as your claim that it cannot be challenged constitutionally you may want to check the fourth amendment.

FindLaw: U.S. Constitution: Fourth Amendment

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches -define "unreasonable" and seizures, shall not be violated,-define "violated" and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause -that would be those incidences of firearms, bombs, and other weapons of various degrees of destruction that have previously been carried onto aircraft and used to assist in carrying out terroristic threats, death and destruction, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched -that would be your outer body, unless they find something to be seized on your body, and the persons or things to be seized. [/color]-that would be things like firearms, bombs, or other weapons of various degrees of destruction that have previously been carried onto aircraft and used to assist in carrying out terroristic threats, death and destruction.

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ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

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ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I am going to guess that, they (whoever the hell they is...) also has the 'right' to deny anyone that does not comply, access to the flight.

So then any business can establish procedures at their will that are completely intrusive?

We already have them at airports, NFL games, and rock concerts.

Do you want to be patted down before you can enter the Wal-Mart, CVS, or the grocery store?

BINGO!    Yup.   THIS.

Here is the KEY part of all of this that you people are not getting, for whatever reason. I have the CHOICE to go to each and every one of those places.........the CHOICE. Not the right! It is not my right to go to a ball game, a rock concert, or fly on a plane. I make the choice, based upon whether or not I have the privilege of entrance fee/money to spend. I am making that CHOICE with the knowledge that the owners of those venues make have requirements I must comply with. If I do not wish to comply, I am in effect, choosing to not attend.

My grocery store, and most restaurants require shoes and a shirt to enter. I comply with that requirement to gain entrance.

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ORIGINAL: mnottertail

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ORIGINAL: rulemylife

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ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I am going to guess that, they (whoever the hell they is...) also has the 'right' to deny anyone that does not comply, access to the flight.

So then any business can establish procedures at their will that are completely intrusive?

We already have them at airports, NFL games, and rock concerts.

Do you want to be patted down before you can enter the Wal-Mart, CVS, or the grocery store?

Answer to one is more or less yes. 

The actual patting down thing is a Dept of Homeland Security thing, and you may see the patter downers at Wal-Mart when the Wal-Mart republicans  fund it thru the house.

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ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
Plus outside of the US , we arent subject to the 4th amendment, its happening outside of the US too yanno,

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It is what is known as UNALIENABLE rights

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ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Next time I fly.......I hope the person doing the searching is HAWT.

This way, maybe I can get some kinda thrill outta the deal. "Oh baby, right there.....oh yeah, a little higher, oh yeahhhhh..." Yanno, played right, this could leave the groper feeling violated.

Unfortunately, my travel budget is sorely lacking for the foreseeable future..... so much for thrills of the hot stranger groping variety.

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ORIGINAL: pahunkboy
We Canadians accept that?

It is what is known as UNALIENABLE rights.     That means that no govt can give us rights that the creator has not already given us.