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RE: My thoughts on why some sub men are still single - 1/25/2011 5:54:38 PM

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1. Not all women are the same. While some don't want money, quite a few do. Insisting that all men in the world would find woman if they just did what one particular woman wants is foolish. While the thread starter may be enlightened enough to not care about cash, trust me, there are PLENTY of gold-digging, whoops, lets call them 'ambitious' women that would laugh at the idea of 'walk in the park' as a date.

2. In my general experiences, there are exactly 3 reasons why people (of either gender) fail to find mates.

A) They have unreasonably high standards. This generally works only for the 'shallow' requirements - you can't find a '10' when it comes to humor without so much work it is silly. You get men that demand drop dead gorgeous women, or women demand tall and successful men. Note this is relative - if you are a '7' and demand a 10, you have the same problem as a '3' that is demanding a '6'. Worse, most people overestimate what they are by at least 1 point, often 2.

B) They don't spend enough time actively looking. If you sit back and do nothing, no one will find you.

C) They indirectly seek out shmucks via something I call a 'shallow compromise'. This is technically a variant of (a). It works like this - they want a 10 in looks/height& successes but are themselves an 8. They can't get a real 10. but they can get a woman whose looks are 10 but whose personality is a 6, averaging to a 8. This they get but surprise surprise, they can't stand the personality.

Note that the more attractive people are, they tend to do C more often. Nerds tend to do B. Average people tend to focus on A.

(in reply to PeonForHer)

RE: My thoughts on why some sub men are still single - 1/25/2011 6:06:21 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne88

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
I think he was more "pros should top for free' category. Of course, I don't think he ever really had the mental capacity to understand why most people wouldn't want to be in the same room with him without getting paid.

No, I was thinking of someone else entirely. I think half of the regulars on the forums have him blocked.
I know who LadyP. means. My secret admirer. .

My curiosity is phucking with my generally not nosy self... Who?

(in reply to Aynne88)

RE: My thoughts on why some sub men are still single - 1/25/2011 6:42:48 PM

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Not an expert by any length....but been thrown into the category of "middle-aged-man-trying-to-date-again-for-the-first-time-in-almost-two-decades"

I go on a lot of dates....mostly blind dates from internet dating (match, plentyofish, craigslist, etc.) and I now have a nice little set of rules and guidelines that I've picked up along the way, courtesy of some of my gal pals who also regular date via the internet, and this is what we came up with. Just have to say, when I stick to the rules, it goes well. Break the rules= bad experience:

1. First date is almost always coffee/tea at a local cafe.
2. Public cafe only, central location, equidistant to both of us/convenient for both, daylight hours only.
3. First date is always dutch. If there's a second date, if I ask for the second date, I offer to pay or she can choose to go dutch.
4. First date: handshake. If date goes really well, a goodbye hug IF and ONLY IF she asks/indicates for it.
5. 2nd date is usually breakfast at a dinner (think: quick)
6. No chatting or sexting. It is too easy to get too intimate too quick.
7. No visiting each other's homes or going to any remote places (like parks) until we have been on at least 3 dates and have a good sense about one another--or have already checked out references. (It's Baltimore--everybody knows everybody--I've gone on at least 4 blind dates where we ended up knowing all the same people)

Basically, until you know you can stand the person's company for longer than 1 hour, I do not go to museums, parks, zoos or any place where I can't make a clean and quick getaway. I went to a museum once (3rd date) and we hadn't spent longer than 1 hour together at that point. The trip together at the museum was a LOOOOOONG painful date--I couldn't wait to get away. Parks and hiking out in nature scream "rapist" to many women, so that activity isn't until we both feel comfortable.

And FYI...I'm not cheap at all--but I found that many women prefer dutch for the first few times to avoid any awkwardness or sense of obligation (as in: I bought you an expensive dinner, now you have to put out...) A lot of times, if we do repeat dates: I'll pick up the second tab, she'll pick up the third one and so on. I always offer to pay regardless, but the choice is hers.

edited: typo

< Message edited by hausboy -- 1/25/2011 6:45:03 PM >

(in reply to PeonForHer)

RE: My thoughts on why some sub men are still single - 1/25/2011 6:57:57 PM

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Just an FYI, Peon, it's virtually impossible to embarass me. :)

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RE: My thoughts on why some sub men are still single - 1/25/2011 7:08:10 PM

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When I say you, I mean generic, in response to your rules, not "you."

quote:

ORIGINAL: hausboy
1. First date is almost always coffee/tea at a local cafe.

This is a good rule, but only if you cleanup before going to meet for coffee. Putting one's best foot forward is imperative, when trying to court a lady (or anyone you want to like you). Some guys go dressy casual, some go not so nice/clean looking, because it's only coffee. Decide whether you care that she likes your presentation, or not.

quote:

2. Public cafe only, central location, equidistant to both of us/convenient for both, daylight hours only

I will go to meet a guy that I'm massively impressed with, if he hasn't the means (car or flight money), to get to me. If however, he has the means to come and meet, but he insists, we do so halfway, we would probably not meet.

quote:

3. First date is always dutch. If there's a second date, if I ask for the second date, I offer to pay or she can choose to go dutch.

If I invite you to dinner, I will pick up the bill, unless you insist, on picking it up. You invite me to dinner, and split the check, it will be the last time you see me, because I'm not cheap, and I don't do cheap.

quote:

4. First date: handshake. If date goes really well, a goodbye hug IF and ONLY IF she asks/indicates for it

I say hello with a kiss on the cheek, to just about anyone (including 1/3 of my coworkers). If a date goes well, or I can't figure him out, I'll end with same. If it goes extremely well, we might kiss (if I can tell by reading or asking, if he'd like to kiss).

quote:

5. 2nd date is usually breakfast at a dinner (think: quick)

For me, it would be romantic (park, walk on the town, museum, cook for me), or a restaurant if he is able to afford it. I'm not a morning person, so until/unless it's breakfast at home (his or mine), not likely.

quote:

6. No chatting or sexting. It is too easy to get too intimate too quick

I agree, most of the time, unless you are replacing this with months of emailing, than I'd rather chat.

quote:

7. No visiting each other's homes or going to any remote places (like parks) until we have been on at least 3 dates and have a good sense about one another--or have already checked out references. (It's Baltimore--everybody knows everybody--I've gone on at least 4 blind dates where we ended up knowing all the same people)

Sounds very reasonable, but I don't have an absolute rule regarding this.

quote:

Basically, until you know you can stand the person's company for longer than 1 hour, I do not go to museums, parks, zoos or any place where I can't make a clean and quick getaway. I went to a museum once (3rd date) and we hadn't spent longer than 1 hour together at that point. The trip together at the museum was a LOOOOOONG painful date--I couldn't wait to get away. Parks and hiking out in nature scream "rapist" to many women, so that activity isn't until we both feel comfortable.

If you're too inpatient to deal with another adult for approximately an hour, that may say more about you, than your company. For myself, unless someone is overtly abusive (in language/manner) or too obnoxious (see abusive) to be around, I can hang for an hour, and learn something (even if what not to do again)

M

(in reply to hausboy)

RE: My thoughts on why some sub men are still single - 1/25/2011 7:24:53 PM

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Thanks SB BBW--
good feedback.
I always offer to pay--and figure if I'm the one that asks her out, I should pick up the tab. It surprised me how many told me they'd prefer we split the check until they got to know me better. Interesting, no?

I'm not into hugging/kissing strangers--it feels really uncomfortable to me. I never kiss on the first date. That's just me. So far, only one woman I went out with told me she was disappointed we didn't kiss on the first date--but I was just not into her.....and had no intention of ever kissing her. Kissing is just way, way personal for me.

I did a few dinner dates (they had schedules that didn't allow for a brunch/breakfast)--and interestingly, the two "first dates" that were dinners were terrible dates. I couldn't say "check please" fast enough! I swear, sometimes I have to look around for the hidden camera. And I've met a 1 or 2 that pretty much admitted that they just wanted a really expensive dinner, and had no intention of it becoming anything more than that. They just place personal ads so that men will take them to nice restaurants.

gee. thanks. how charming. check, please.

(in reply to SexyBossyBBW)

RE: My thoughts on why some sub men are still single - 1/25/2011 7:27:39 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hausboy

And I've met a 1 or 2 that pretty much admitted that they just wanted a really expensive dinner, and had no intention of it becoming anything more than that. They just place personal ads so that men will take them to nice restaurants.

gee. thanks. how charming. check, please.

Are you kidding? Women actually told you that? How pathetic. I know women do that but it makes me embarrassed for my species when I hear this.

(in reply to hausboy)

RE: My thoughts on why some sub men are still single - 1/25/2011 7:28:00 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hausboy
I'm not into hugging/kissing strangers--it feels really uncomfortable to me.

Good thing you mention this. I will have to try to remember it if we ever run into each other. If I meet people from the boards, I'm usually so excited to meet them face to face that I hug without thinking.

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RE: My thoughts on why some sub men are still single - 1/25/2011 7:40:07 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hausboy
Thanks SB BBW--
good feedback.
I always offer to pay--and figure if I'm the one that asks her out, I should pick up the tab.

Thank you. That shows you are a gentleman, whether out with a "Lady" or may not so much a lady...

quote:

It surprised me how many told me they'd prefer we split the check until they got to know me better. Interesting, no?

Some women feel this way, and I don't think they are wrong; it's just not my thing. If any guy who goes out with me, thinks I owe him more than my presence, and proper behavior during the date, he would find himself with a very short dinner, and "just the check please," before desert/coffee is offered.

As to women going out, just for a free dinner, don't know the type. I have a bit of social anxiety, and would much rather buy my own dinner, than go on a date I'm not enthusiastic about.

quote:

I'm not into hugging/kissing strangers--it feels really uncomfortable to me. I never kiss on the first date. That's just me.

Good information to tell the potential. I'm not about too touchy-feely strangers, but a kiss on the cheek is just a habit, I would have to edit, when with a stranger that seems to hold back. M

< Message edited by SexyBossyBBW -- 1/25/2011 7:42:19 PM >

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RE: My thoughts on why some sub men are still single - 1/25/2011 8:00:37 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1

quote:

ORIGINAL: hausboy

And I've met a 1 or 2 that pretty much admitted that they just wanted a really expensive dinner, and had no intention of it becoming anything more than that. They just place personal ads so that men will take them to nice restaurants.

gee. thanks. how charming. check, please.

Are you kidding? Women actually told you that? How pathetic. I know women do that but it makes me embarrassed for my species when I hear this.

Yep. Really happened. She wanted to go to a sushi place, and ordered at least $40-50 worth of sushi.

She was 11 years my junior (I was 38....she was 27) and we had a very nice conversation via email. But she could not carry on a conversation in person, and getting her to talk about anything was like pulling teeth. I mean, she had some really interesting things going on in her life (volunteering in Africa for example)--things that I found really fascinating and wanted to hear more about, and she wouldn't say more than 4 words on anything.

So I resort to an ol' standby ice-breaker---"Do ya have any really funny bad date stories from online dating?" And that's when she comes out with:

Her: "oh I go a million dates but I don't remember any of them--I just do it for the free dinners. I haven't had to pay for a meal in ages."

Me: [half-joking/laughing] Ah! So is this in the category of "free meal" as well?

Her: "uhhh.....duh?! I mean, dude, you're old!"

Me: "How enchanting."

Her: "see? like, who says stuff that except old people??"

You know, she might have a point there....

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RE: My thoughts on why some sub men are still single - 1/25/2011 8:15:28 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hausboy
She was 11 years my junior (I was 38....she was 27) and we had a very nice conversation via email. But she could not carry on a conversation in person, and getting her to talk about anything was like pulling teeth. I mean, she had some really interesting things going on in her life (volunteering in Africa for example)--things that I found really fascinating and wanted to hear more about, and she wouldn't say more than 4 words on anything.

So I resort to an ol' standby ice-breaker---"Do ya have any really funny bad date stories from online dating?" And that's when she comes out with:

Her: "oh I go a million dates but I don't remember any of them--I just do it for the free dinners. I haven't had to pay for a meal in ages."

Me: [half-joking/laughing] Ah! So is this in the category of "free meal" as well?

Her: "uhhh.....duh?! I mean, dude, you're old!"

Me: "How enchanting."

Her: "see? like, who says stuff that except old people??"

You know, she might have a point there....

Sounds like your picker (or pecker) is choosing the exact wrong women for you. She's hot before she talks, or has to show more than one dimension, but, falls short. You blame her, or your judgement? Please don't think I'm saying this, because my judgement is better by the way.

M

(in reply to hausboy)

RE: My thoughts on why some sub men are still single - 1/25/2011 8:34:00 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SexyBossyBBW

Sounds like your picker (or pecker) is choosing the exact wrong women for you. She's hot before she talks, or has to show more than one dimension, but, falls short. You blame her, or your judgement? Please don't think I'm saying this, because my judgement is better by the way. M

LOL. I've gotten a lot more, er, discriminating since then.....
(I didn't have any idea what she looked like before she showed up!)
But now I ask a lot more questions beyond interest. I do ask some more "philosophical" questions. And I ask them what's their favorite album of all time.

If they respond with "what's an album?" or "You mean, like, facebook?" I move on.

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RE: My thoughts on why some sub men are still single - 1/25/2011 9:00:57 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hausboy
But now I ask a lot more questions beyond interest. I do ask some more "philosophical" questions. And I ask them what's their favorite album of all time.

If they respond with "what's an album?" or "You mean, like, facebook?" I move on.

Good one. LOL

M

(in reply to hausboy)

RE: My thoughts on why some sub men are still single - 1/26/2011 4:38:59 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: StrongSpirit

1. Not all women are the same. While some don't want money, quite a few do. Insisting that all men in the world would find woman if they just did what one particular woman wants is foolish. While the thread starter may be enlightened enough to not care about cash, trust me, there are PLENTY of gold-digging, whoops, lets call them 'ambitious' women that would laugh at the idea of 'walk in the park' as a date.

Oh so you must be gold digging 'ambitious' to not walk with a stranger you never met before in the park. How enlightened of you... Has it possibly crossed your mind that it is more comfortable to sit down and talk, pay attention to what your date says, mimic, body language, etc. instead of concentrating on where you are going, possibly feeling a bit uncomfy because there aren't a lot of people in the park? A bit difficult to have a great conversation with a stranger while you are walking. In case you got a dog with you, if it's anything like my dog, she will want to play, wouldn't give me time to concentrate on my date.. I wonder how well it would go down to say a few words, then get a stick brought, throw stick, turn to date, say something or try to hear what he says, dog with stick is back, repeat... Sounds like a success in the making...

Also if a guy can't afford a cup of coffee, what is that going to say about the rest of the relationship? That whenever we want to go somewhere, I will have to pay for both of us because he can't afford to go anywhere otherwise? That's going to get old pretty soon, I'm not quite old enough to be a sugar-mommy, also I don't want to spend all future dates walking in parks or sitting at home, if a coffee is out of his financial range, then so will be a cinema ticket, entrance to a club/gallery/museum - it means in case anything should come out of the date, I will have to do all the things I like doing on my own or pay everything for him. I can see a relationship like that really working well....

As for your 3 reasons, well, it's better to have standards and people who are only into looks, their relationships are going to be build on sand anyway. For example, I couldn't live with a person who's only interest is football, who hates his work and his idea of a good time is going to a football match or getting drunk, wouldn't work at all, just like I couldn't live with a person who has no ambitions at all.

For point B - none of my relationships came about because I was looking for them, if you start looking for them and pushing, people often appear desperate, nothing is going to turn off a potential partner as much or is attracting exactly the wrong kind. I'd say sitting back not searching but being open is exactly the way to go.

For C, gawd, you don't really think that people just focus on looks when it comes to potential partners?

quote:

Note that the more attractive people are, they tend to do C more often. Nerds tend to do B. Average people tend to focus on A.

Please do point me to the research of that.... Even more, your profile indicates you are single, here are some quotes from your profile...

quote:

I do best with intelligent women. Who wants to drive a K-Car when you can drive a Ferrari instead.

I think you're making the mistake you listed in A...

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RE: My thoughts on why some sub men are still single - 1/26/2011 4:42:35 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hausboy

She was 11 years my junior (I was 38....she was 27) and we had a very nice conversation via email. But she could not carry on a conversation in person, and getting her to talk about anything was like pulling teeth. I mean, she had some really interesting things going on in her life (volunteering in Africa for example)--things that I found really fascinating and wanted to hear more about, and she wouldn't say more than 4 words on anything.

So I resort to an ol' standby ice-breaker---"Do ya have any really funny bad date stories from online dating?" And that's when she comes out with:

Her: "oh I go a million dates but I don't remember any of them--I just do it for the free dinners. I haven't had to pay for a meal in ages."

Me: [half-joking/laughing] Ah! So is this in the category of "free meal" as well?

Her: "uhhh.....duh?! I mean, dude, you're old!"

Me: "How enchanting."

Her: "see? like, who says stuff that except old people??"

You know, she might have a point there....

Seriously, after a conversation like that, I think you would have been perfectly justified to call the waitress, ask for the bill of what you have ordered and leave the "lady" to pay her own bill, a bit of dish washing in the kitchen might have done her good.

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RE: My thoughts on why some sub men are still single - 1/26/2011 4:48:05 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

quote:

ORIGINAL: hausboy

She was 11 years my junior (I was 38....she was 27) and we had a very nice conversation via email. But she could not carry on a conversation in person, and getting her to talk about anything was like pulling teeth. I mean, she had some really interesting things going on in her life (volunteering in Africa for example)--things that I found really fascinating and wanted to hear more about, and she wouldn't say more than 4 words on anything.

So I resort to an ol' standby ice-breaker---"Do ya have any really funny bad date stories from online dating?" And that's when she comes out with:

Her: "oh I go a million dates but I don't remember any of them--I just do it for the free dinners. I haven't had to pay for a meal in ages."

Me: [half-joking/laughing] Ah! So is this in the category of "free meal" as well?

Her: "uhhh.....duh?! I mean, dude, you're old!"

Me: "How enchanting."

Her: "see? like, who says stuff that except old people??"

You know, she might have a point there....

Seriously, after a conversation like that, I think you would have been perfectly justified to call the waitress, ask for the bill of what you have ordered and leave the "lady" to pay her own bill, a bit of dish washing in the kitchen might have done her good.

I agree!

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RE: My thoughts on why some sub men are still single - 1/26/2011 5:49:41 AM

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I thought that mummyman hit the nail on the head about the park idea. I was really glad to see that a male submissive would understand what some women might think about the proposed scenario. Kudos on that.

Technically, I don't date, so My answers might be those coming from the odd person out. I just look at these types of questions and give My perspectives from the way that I see first meets. Some of which, My situation is different because MP will often come along with Me. That may sound more complicated to some, but in certain areas, it actually makes it easier. For example, to Me, it automatically means that we're going dutch at minimum, if I don't pick up the entire check outright. Same thing goes for why I prefer meeting people for the first time at the munch. Everybody is paying their own bill and we don't have to go through what these threads always seem to drift towards. The mess of who is going to pay gets eliminated.

I think I'm in the minority in another area. That gray area of discussing kink or not. While I'm not going to talk about sex, I probably am going to ask a person what they think of their local munch group, ask them about dungeons they have been to, and so on. BDSM is something that I know we have in common so I'm not going to avoid the subject entirely.

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RE: My thoughts on why some sub men are still single - 1/26/2011 6:21:08 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I thought that mummyman hit the nail on the head about the park idea. I was really glad to see that a male submissive would understand what some women might think about the proposed scenario. Kudos on that.

Very much so, yes. You can always take a walk when you got to know each other better, straight off the bat pretty odd...

I'm in the same boat as you, I don't date, as I said, coffee with just meeting and having a chat, not a problem with me picking up the bill or buying somebody a coffee because they're short on cash. In a dating situation it would be different, not because I expect somebody to pay my way but somebody who's life is in such a state that they can't afford a cup of coffee would not bode well for a relationship. In a relationship you have enough problems, creating more problems due to a partner being in a desperate financial situation or being as tight as a mouse trap just wouldn't appeal at all.

Maybe I'm biased but a friend of mine dated somebody briefly, he also didn't want to meet in a cafe as he thought the prices for coffee are a rip off, she thought he was quirky, she spent a few weekends trudging with him through the country side, was always reminded to bring a pre-packed lunch with her (buying snacks or going to a pub was also unacceptable due to what he considered rip off prices for food and drinks), apart from him being really really tight fisted (and he wasn't unemployed, just a cheap bastard) they got on great but they always used her car to go anywhere, he invited her to spend the weekend at his house, let's say it was not the most romantic weekend, rather frugal and she finally decided to run out when he told her that the tea bag can be reused again and asked her for a contribution as she had tea and some toast on Saturday morning, by Saturday noon he was history... We're still laughing about it and I admire her patience, I think I would have been out of the place when he laid down the rules for going to the bathroom, he rationed toilet paper (obviously a massive expense) and flushing for number 1 was not allowed as he was on a water meter and it would be wasteful...

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RE: My thoughts on why some sub men are still single - 1/26/2011 6:27:35 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I thought that mummyman hit the nail on the head about the park idea. I was really glad to see that a male submissive would understand what some women might think about the proposed scenario. Kudos on that.

When I was in my late teens, I developed a major crush on a girl who lived in a neighbouring street. I actually worked it out that a cool way to approach her would be to follow her home after her evening job at the local pub and say 'hello' to her at her doorstep.

Oh well, you live and you learn. In my defence, I went to a boys' school.

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RE: My thoughts on why some sub men are still single - 1/26/2011 7:43:11 AM

SomethingCatchy

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I read all the replies, but I'm dumbfounded that anyone would consider a park REMOTE. All the parks I've ever lived next to seem to be major thoroughfares for locals. Most times you can't even move 12 feet without seeing someone. Lots of joggers, cyclists, families with children running around screaming, people with dogs. I feel more secure going to the local park than I do walking down my own street. I think the most remote it's gotten so far was my recent picnic with C. Maybe I'm just lucky that I've lived in urban areas that take pride in their public spaces.

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Knowledge is power. Power corrupts. Study hard. Be evil.

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All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Mistress >> RE: My thoughts on why some sub men are still single

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