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RE: "Selling" your fetish - 3/10/2011 11:25:36 PM

Posts: 41
Joined: 9/14/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Killerangel

It sounds like good problem solving to say that since I like something I'll go ask others if they like it too. But women aren't men, they don't tend to concentrate on certain activities, they want the person attached to the activities first and foremost. A man will not be successful if he goes about things as though he were doing things that would attract himself....because he's a freaking man not a woman.

I do understand this to some degree. A domme friend of mine once wondered out loud why men would write her and say things like, "I'll perform cunnilingus on you any time you want!" and expect that to be attractive. I suggested looking at it from the man's perspective. Heck, if a submissive female wrote me and said "I'll give you a blow job any time you want!" you can bet it would spark some interest, and I'm not a dominant. (Maybe it wouldn't particularly appeal to an actual male dom, now that I think of it....he might take that more for granted and be more interested in other aspects of her personality and submission....)

quote:

A hunter sets his bait according to what he is hunting. If he sets out a lovely tomato plant and hopes that a lioness will come by and want to eat tomatoes and therefore fall into his trap- he may be waiting for a long time. The lion hunter should therefore probably set out what lions like to eat. It's not enough to say I'm a hunter and I am interested in acquiring a lioness, and I will get one by offering tomatoes, because I truly love tomatoes myself. The lioness is going to be passing by until she finds a savvy hunter who sets out a bunch of meat because that's what catches her interest.

Ah, meat! So that's why it's such a brilliant idea to send every domme a picture of your penis! Now I get it!

Seriously, I think this is a pretty good analogy. Of course it will spark another "What are dommes looking for?" thread....

< Message edited by pinniped -- 3/10/2011 11:48:41 PM >

(in reply to Killerangel)

RE: "Selling" your fetish - 3/10/2011 11:33:20 PM

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Joined: 9/14/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious

The vanilla equivalent of a guy 'announcing that he's into being feminized, or cuckolded, or imprisoned, or penetrated, or whatever' would be him announcing that he's looking for someone for blowjobs, or anal sex, or fucking in the shower, or whatever. How many women do you suppose would appreciate that approach? (Hint: they are the minority.) What makes you think kinky women would be different?

Point taken. The one way that I do think kinky women are different, is that (IME) they are a good deal more willing, under the proper circumstances, to actually discuss the things that turn them on and to put a fair amount of planning and effort into the doing. (A lot of them go to assorted kink workshops; how many vanilla women -- or men -- go to sex workshops?) But of course you're right, it's not, generally, much of an opener. (That doesn't mean, I think, that if you're at a play party, you can't engage a dominant woman in a discussion of a bondage technique she's demonstrated or ask to take a closer look at her flogger, but that's part of what I mean by "proper circumstances."

quote:

I have advice, and I know it works because it's what I do. Write decent, flowing, articulate and sexy erotica about your fetishes. Go into how it makes the characters feel, why it's good for them. Focus on emotions and sensations, not how improbably big the characters' breasts are. Don't use ridiculous synonyms for cock. Punctuate properly (because nothing ruins porn like bad grammar. I'm not kidding.)

Set up a blog or something for this stuff, and then leave a link to it at the end of your profile. That way the information about what gets you off is there for the woman to view at her leisure if she wants it, and you're not shoving it in her face during conversation. Mention the blog once in an email if you like, and then don't bring it up again.

This is certainly not a bad idea, and I will give it some thought. My own tendency would probably be to emphasize the "story" behind the situation -- porn that's nothing about the sensations and loud orgasmic cries generally bores me silly -- but the emotions going into it are certainly important. Thanks for the suggestion!

As a technique, it's pretty successful - you're appealing to their curiosity rather than demanding their attention, and most people are pretty curious.

(in reply to VaguelyCurious)

RE: "Selling" your fetish - 3/10/2011 11:42:10 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyNTrainer
Seriously, if you would not walk up to a woman in a bar and tell her you love anal sex before you even introduced yourself by name, let alone got into a deeper conversation with her after you were already in the dating stage, don't do the kink equivalent. Trust me on this.

This is really what it ends up looking like. "Hi, I love anal sex and getting blowjobs. So what's your name?" If you do this, expect women to stare at you like your fly is open and your dick is hanging out - because it pretty much is - and walk away.

Telling her in detail about the kind of kinky sex you like is NOT going to make most women think well of you, not if you do it as your first introduction. It comes off as classless and crude and shallow if you can not wait until you know a woman better to broach the subject of the kind of sex you like. If you do that too early, she's going to think that all you are looking for is a kinky sex provider, not a human relationship with her as a person.

I get that you're kinky and I'm kinky and we're on a kinky site together. That means you can *slow down* with the kink talk, not speed it up, because you already know that we're both into similar stuff. Or heck, it could be right there in both our profiles, making it even less crucial that you start talking about it immediately to weed out people that really wouldn't be compatible with you. We already know this, now how about focusing on the really important stuff - do we actually like each other enough to want to spend time together, let alone intimate time? That means taking the time to get to know each other as people before getting into the kinky sex stuff.

If you jump right in with the kinky sex stuff and ignore the relationship stuff to start with, women are mostly going to think you are a shallow tool who is chasing his dick around. Even if this isn't true of you, this is what you will look like. So really, don't. Just don't

What she said, many times over! M

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"Only when there are many people who are pools of peace, silence, understanding, will war disappear." -Osho

(in reply to LadyNTrainer)

RE: "Selling" your fetish - 3/11/2011 4:01:08 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pinniped
Point taken. The one way that I do think kinky women are different, is that (IME) they are a good deal more willing, under the proper circumstances, to actually discuss the things that turn them on and to put a fair amount of planning and effort into the doing. (A lot of them go to assorted kink workshops; how many vanilla women -- or men -- go to sex workshops?) But of course you're right, it's not, generally, much of an opener. (That doesn't mean, I think, that if you're at a play party, you can't engage a dominant woman in a discussion of a bondage technique she's demonstrated or ask to take a closer look at her flogger, but that's part of what I mean by "proper circumstances."

I may be wrong here but I do see a difference. For a woman to take a class on fireplay, it is not sex focused. Nor is it really relationship focused. Certainly it has a sensual/sexual aspect to it for SOME of the participants but I would be money, not all.

To ME, you are mixing a lot of stuff up into one pot and perhaps, even confusing your potential audience as to what exactly you want.You say that the crossdressing is an important part of your life as is kink. Then present yourself as a 'kinky crossdresser looking for a relationship'......IF you want a relationship. Then leave it at that. Make your discussions about life, about her interests that have nothing to do with crossdressing or kink. Leave that to her. If you are relationship focused with specific needs, you've already made those needs within a relationship known. They do not have to be trotted out to constantly remind her.......UNLESS they are more important than establishing a relationship with a dominant woman. We are not alllllllll dumber than a box of rocks. It's not like she is going to forget you are kinky and very likely will not forget you are a crossdresser.

Here is an example of how a local guy that 'just wanted to be friends', annoyed the fuck out of me. He is a cross dresser.

In our initial conversation we established that I was not interested in him as relationship material (other than friends) and that I didn't care one way or another about his cross dressing. We certainly shared many other interests that we could easily have discussed without kink or crossdressing needing to be a part of every conversation. I knew he was a relatively bright young man. I knew where he worked, It even turned out that I knew part of his family. He learned about the type of work I do and some of my interests. AND YET....almost every single email from him began to have more information about his crossdressing adventures that anything else, usually to the exclusion of anything else. Then he goes and has a snit fit because I began to ignore his emails, not answering them. He was upset that I wasn't telling him how lovely he looked in his new outfits and wigs. We had already established that I did NOT think he would or could look lovely, so why bother trying to convince me otherwise or even send me the photos??? No, Hey LeeAnn how are you doing? Hey LeeAnn, did you make it through the last storm okay? Hey LeeAnn I fell and blah blah blah (unless of course, he just happened to fall while wearing his new heels and outfit, tearing his panty hose, while trying to pass as a woman, on a business trip in Kansas City.........)

If your kink consumes you and your conversations, it is obvious to any one you are conversing with that it will also consume ANY sort of relationship they try to have with you.

Take a serious look at what really is most important and don't try to mislead. If indeed a relationship takes priority, then focus on building one.

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 3/11/2011 4:02:35 AM >

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Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to pinniped)

RE: "Selling" your fetish - 3/11/2011 4:22:19 AM

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Joined: 12/2/2009
From: United Kingdom
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pinniped

That doesn't mean, I think, that if you're at a play party, you can't engage a dominant woman in a discussion of a bondage technique she's demonstrated or ask to take a closer look at her flogger, but that's part of what I mean by "proper circumstances."

Well, yes and no. That's not much of an opener either, if I'm honest; if a complete stranger came up to me at a party and opened the conversation by talking about how I'd just restrained my playpartner or saying that he wanted a look at my flogger I'd be likely to send him packing. If it's someone I know, fine, and if it comes up naturally in conversation, fine, but someone coming up to me in order to ask those things? Kind of creepy.

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RE: "Selling" your fetish - 3/11/2011 8:22:35 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pinniped
"Tell me why I should want to invest a lot of time in doing that to/with you." It's not that it's not a fair question, but I'm not sure it's much different from someone who asks, "Why would I want to spend a lot of time building model airplanes?" or "making patchwork quilts"? That I can't explain why doesn't mean there aren't people out there who enjoy doing those things.

Building model airplanes or making quilts is an activity that is fun and rewarding in itself without needing an intimate partner that you trust enough to be naked in front of. Kink, not so much. The intimacy is built into kink, so the focus for us shifts away from the activity being intrinsically rewarding to only being rewarding with a trusted intimate partner. That pretty much requires us to start thinking not so much in terms of what we want to do, but in terms of the person we want to do it with. That's the important factor.

I can go build model airplanes by myself or in the company of strangers and enjoy the results. I can not engage in whipping by myself and enjoy the results. I need a partner, and not just any partner. It has to be someone whose psyche I am fascinated enough with to want to explore deeply in pain and pleasure, and it has to be someone I like and trust. At the very least, it has to be someone I feel attracted to on some level. Otherwise, it is No Fun and I might as well go make patchwork quilts.

As a professional, I have spent time and energy engaging in kink activities with people I would not have otherwise been interested in playing with. I do meet my obligations fairly and ethically as a service top. I build the trip they need to go on and safely shepherd them there. But it's just plain work. It is not relaxing. It is not generally a turn-on for me, even if the specific kink activities are the same as the ones I am doing at home with my personal partners. It is not necessarily unpleasant, and it can even be fun, and when I'm successful it can be emotionally rewarding. But it's still work. I don't think anyone would be willing to engage in that kind of service topping work without some form of compensation, whether that was measured in cash money or another form of return.

quote:

(Perhaps a shift in emphasis might be helpful -- "Why would I want to spend a lot of time doing that with you?" Though that might come off as arrogant or mercenary to some, I suppose.)

I see it as setting my personal boundaries in a manner that is fair to myself as well as everyone else. If a stranger at a bus station asks me to help lift their heavy bag down from the overhead compartment, I will probably do so out of courtesy if I am not nursing any injuries at the time. I will however say no if a healthy young man asks me to carry his bags a long distance to his home and then fix him dinner, clean his bathroom and give him a blowjob. Is this arrogant or mercenary, or is this a reasonable setting of personal boundaries?

No, I don't want to spend a lot of time and energy doing things for strangers, especially selfish and demanding ones. I might give fairly substantially of myself to help someone who was really helpless and had real emergency need. Let's say the stranger asking me to carry their bags from the bus station was a crippled old lady whose daughter had been unable to pick her up due to an emergency. In that case I would probably be willing to take the time to help. But if the stranger is some guy who just wants to get his rocks off, and catering to him really isn't going to do anything for me, oh hell no. I am not the drive-through McDomme's that strangers can use for their convenience.

To further my philosophy of when I am and am not willing to help strangers, I am a social Darwinist and consider that if you make consistently bad choices in life, I am not willing to rescue you from the consequences of your choices. So I am rarely willing to give money or aid to beggars, because I have no way of knowing what choices led them there or what choices they are likely to have to better themselves through their own agency. I am more likely to give to organizations that offer individuals the opportunity for betterment if they take positive action. Those are my personal boundaries.

I am very definitely unwilling to give my time and energy to be unilaterally used for a stranger's sexual gratification. And that's all it would be for me if he wanted a kink list met and I had no interest in him as a person. Fair's fair, so if he wants me to give my time and energy to him, I have to get something back. What that something is can be negotiable, but it can't be nothing. I am not submissive and I am not willing to be used.

< Message edited by LadyNTrainer -- 3/11/2011 8:23:28 AM >

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(in reply to pinniped)

RE: "Selling" your fetish - 3/11/2011 10:50:04 AM

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Selling your fetish...selling yourself

Who is the audience? Is it really us here? Or is it (read: should it really be) your local live kink community?

I still believe that the best way to "sell" your fetish is to sell yourself first - and frankly, not at places online...like here...but live in person, beginning at munches.

Getting to know people, really know them as people first and making friends with cool human beings first, and letting being kinky simply be a point of commonality that brings you into eachother's orbits once or twice a month. Most kinky folk are incredibly social beings and want to talk about all sorts of things - not just kinky stuff!

I think making friends with people is essential for anyone seriously looking to establish a power exchange relationship in the community where they live - internet connections do happen, but I think they are much more likely in local circles done face to face. I believe that putting yourself out there - and maybe being a bit uncomfortable at first is essential in order to establish yourself in the community. Doing your best to be engaging, authentic, fun, and above all - sane and drama free. Goes a long way.

In that process, a person has ample time to participate in conversations, both kinky and vanilla. People who get to know you a bit in person will go out to these sites and find your profiles, they will read what you say, and process what and how your think and communicate - your kinks will be self-evident...and if you have conducted yourself with integrity and are someone that they might want to know better, your kinks will be received with better thoughts and feelings around them - the sensation of you as a real person that they just saw last night at the munch and had that great conversation with about...motorcycles...or politics...or food...or shoes...

Kinky people have parties, they attend events, they go to clubs. And by establishing friendships in your local circle, you will find your way to those events as well.

And frankly, at all levels of "selling" yourself to the local kinky community, and hopefully making really good friends and making for yourself a wonderful social circle, you can "hunt" as well. Once people begin to know you, and care about you, they will even try to help you hunt, pointing you at this person, or that person...and even folk with whom you might never establish a long-term power exchange relationship with might be interested in topping you once they know, like, and care about you, and just like that you can get some of your kinks met.

It's not that you can't meet people over sites like this...but again, I believe that chances increase greatly if sites like CM are used as sort of an online CV and social network - multiple hunting grounds and understanding where each one fits and what sort of connections are possible and frankly - likely - out of both.

I think that for a lot of "lifestyle" kinky folk, it is so much more about "establishing and living a kinky life" than "finding a mistress"...and just like regular vanilla love - it probably finds you when you are not necessarily looking for it.

Who is the audience?

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(in reply to pinniped)

RE: "Selling" your fetish - 3/11/2011 11:51:41 AM

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Excellent post, Otters! I don't think that I could agree more.

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Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to OttersSwim)

RE: "Selling" your fetish - 3/11/2011 9:29:15 PM

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I have to say that I actually had more luck online. In person, I can be shy (probably my friends might disagree, but they are my friends and I'm not shy around them.) However, I didn't keep it online forever, and the longer I was around, the quicker it went from me 'hunting' online, to sending an email, chatting, and then wanting to talk on the phone. If I was interested, coffee or dinner could be as soon as tomorrow night. I got very comfortable meeting online connections face to face. Also, I didn't just look for lovers/partners etc online, I looked for interesting people. I met other Femdoms, male Doms I thought were good people, etc. Who knows when someone is going to know someone, who might be the perfect match? It also did make it easier to get out to local munches, because I'd already know at least a few faces.

Otter is certainly much more the 'talk to strangers' type of person, whereas, I'm reserved, do a lot of observing, and listen as others make small talk.

One other thought - if you want to make friends, do fun things. Invite people to join you, don't wait for an invitation to be issued.

< Message edited by SthrnCom4t -- 3/11/2011 9:32:55 PM >

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RE: "Selling" your fetish - 3/16/2011 6:55:10 PM

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quote:

"What's in it for me?"

OP, it makes me wonder why they even claim they are kinky and/or a domme to begin with. Many act like that men are not allowed to have kinks. Obviously it takes two to tango. If the woman doesn't like doing something to the man that the man likes, such a situation wouldn't exist. The simple fact is that it's about finding your kinky match. But many of the dommes here are not intelligent enough to understand this simple logic. Instead, submissive men are supposedly not entitled to have kinks. They are supposed to be vanilla or something.

(in reply to VaguelyCurious)

RE: "Selling" your fetish - 3/16/2011 7:05:52 PM

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No, they are supposed to understand that even a kinky woman is a WOMAN, a HUMAN BEING, first and foremost. Not just an object to fulfill some tweaker's kinky fantasies.

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Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to naughtynick81)

RE: "Selling" your fetish - 3/16/2011 7:21:45 PM

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quote:

No, they are supposed to understand that even a kinky woman is a WOMAN, a HUMAN BEING, first and foremost. Not just an object to fulfill some tweaker's kinky fantasies.

Then there are women who are overly paranoid about this and judge all men to be this way. Or judge all men guilty until proven innocent. If you have trust issues with men, you shouldn't be in the dating market or looking for something that involves men to begin with. In fact, you shouldn't be on this site. I certainly don't want to deal with a paranoid schizophrenic.

(in reply to LaTigresse)

RE: "Selling" your fetish - 3/16/2011 7:28:44 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: naughtynick81

you shouldn't be [...] looking for something that involves men to begin with.

He says...to LaT.

Lol.

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RE: "Selling" your fetish - 3/16/2011 7:30:38 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: naughtynick81

quote:

No, they are supposed to understand that even a kinky woman is a WOMAN, a HUMAN BEING, first and foremost. Not just an object to fulfill some tweaker's kinky fantasies.

Then there are women who are overly paranoid about this and judge all men to be this way. Or judge all men guilty until proven innocent. If you have trust issues with men, you shouldn't be in the dating market or looking for something that involves men to begin with. In fact, you shouldn't be on this site. I certainly don't want to deal with a paranoid schizophrenic.

Now that is just funny! The guy that has a strong dislike for women pointing out trust factors and how we shouldn't be here if we don't trust! Yeah Baby!

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RE: "Selling" your fetish - 3/16/2011 7:43:46 PM

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I have a strong dislike towards many of the dommes here who absolutely hate men. Other than that, other women rock. I am not going to play emotional blackmailing games just to gain trust with a woman who thinks most of my gender are evil users.

(in reply to Lockit)

RE: "Selling" your fetish - 3/16/2011 7:46:55 PM

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Interesting...I never detect any hatred towards men by any of the Dommes here.

I thought that Dommes just dislike assholes, regardless of gender.

(in reply to naughtynick81)

RE: "Selling" your fetish - 3/16/2011 7:50:44 PM

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quote:

Interesting...I never detect any hatred towards men by any of the Dommes here.

Take off your beer goggles

(in reply to sexyred1)

RE: "Selling" your fetish - 3/16/2011 7:53:00 PM

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FR

I've come to the conclusion that things work better with the opposite sex if you can arrange to see past their faults and like them.

I think the thing to do is realise, and accept totally, that the opposite sex is a pain in the arse. It's only after accepting that that one can begin to tolerate them then, eventually, start to grow fond of them.

For instance, as a boy, it used to irritate the tits off me the way that females would flare their nostrils and compress their lips when they got 'indignant' about something, which they seemed to do often. But then, much later, I acquired wisdom, and learned to surmount this failing in them.

That is All.

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(in reply to Lockit)

RE: "Selling" your fetish - 3/16/2011 9:44:15 PM

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Lady Pact's version of kinky math:

Domme/Top = X

Male sub/bottom = y

Ten male bottoms in My area send Me email over a set amount of time = 10y

All ten are interested in kinky activity in common = z

Nine of the ten have similar interest in attending the same event (a) so I get 9y + z + a which is better than the y +z -a

Eight of those nine are good at conversation (b) so I get 8y + z + a + b

Seven of them are physically attractive (c) so I get 7y + z + a + b + c

In the end, based on whatever criteria that I (being Domme X) am using I get y + z + a + b + c + d + e + f +g + h by the time that I'm done with the selection process, which is obviously better than y + z (just any guy who comes along and happens to have that kink).

So, if y + z < y + z + a + b + c + d + e + f + g + h, why in the hell would anybody want to settle for just y+z?

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to PeonForHer)

RE: "Selling" your fetish - 3/16/2011 10:22:38 PM

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Life is so terribly hard for a woman in this scene. My my poor poor women.

A man could only wish to have the same amount of opportunity that spoilt women get in this scene.

(in reply to LadyPact)

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