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ORIGINAL: Prinsexx

So my question is: what is the connection between self-harm and masochism? Simply because masochism brings a sense of release also.

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ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

If we look at happiness as a number scale (from -10 being hopelessly melancholy to +10 being ecstatic) I find self-harmers (as have been described here) are using pain as a way to get from a negative number back to 0, rather than to get from 0 to a higher positive number.

The effect is essentially the same but we tend to look at things more negatively (this is likely to account for greater guilt with the former actions compared to the latter) if the act wasn't begun from a 0 or positive status, as we view negative numbers as states of compromised mental capacity.

Great question.

quote:

If we look at happiness as a number scale (from -10 being hopelessly melancholy to +10 being ecstatic) I find self-harmers (as have been described here) are using pain as a way to get from a negative number back to 0, rather than to get from 0 to a higher positive number.

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ORIGINAL: porcelaine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx

So my question is: what is the connection between self-harm and masochism? Simply because masochism brings a sense of release also.

Greetings,

From my perspective there is no connection and I have never bought into the idea that they are helping themselves. Oftentimes the methods undertaken go far afield from most kink-inspired activities. If a dominant professed his desire to do the same we'd question his sanity and some might posit potential abuse. That's ymmv of course. I have a difficult time finding the positive in self-harm when many are undertaking the activity as an escape from realities that are less than such. It is a coping mechanism in my opinion. While someone can be both masochistic and into self-harm, I don't believe they're processing the former through that aspect of their persona.

Namaste,

~porcelaine

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ORIGINAL: kalikshama

I think "The Secretary" did a good job illustrating the difference.

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ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

If we look at happiness as a number scale (from -10 being hopelessly melancholy to +10 being ecstatic) I find self-harmers (as have been described here) are using pain as a way to get from a negative number back to 0, rather than to get from 0 to a higher positive number.

The effect is essentially the same but we tend to look at things more negatively (this is likely to account for greater guilt with the former actions compared to the latter) if the act wasn't begun from a 0 or positive status, as we view negative numbers as states of compromised mental capacity.

Great question.

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ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep

for me, i identify as a masochist, but i go out of my way NOT to connect it, in any way, to my old self-harming thing. i had a lot of really negative stuff going on in my head as a kid and, at the time, cutting seemed like such a good idea. like NZ said, it was going from a negative number back to 0, not up to a positive in any way. the thing with it was, sure, i could cut myself, release endorphins, make my skin feel "not so tight," feel the pain/see the blood and know i was alive -- WHATEVER. the reasons for "why" were layered together, sometimes i didn't really know why i was doing it, other than, for a few minutes, i'd drift away and all the hurt would stop. but when i came back, i felt blindingly ashamed, i felt like i'd made myself uglier than i already thought i was. there was no positive spin on it, EVER.

masochism was always sexual for me. even though i felt like a nutball (until i found out about BDSM), it wasn't really a negative thing for me, ever. i didn't hate myself because of it, it had just always been there, but i figured nobody needed to know about it anyway. if i engage in S&M, it makes me feel good. it's going from 0 to some fantabulous POSITIVE number. even if it's a cathartic thing, it's still positive. there's no "omigosh i hate myself MORE now!" downswing afterward.

they are so totally different for me, originating and ending at totally different places altogether, and honestly, even if there is some connection deep down, i really don't want to know about it. i don't want to link something positive to something negative.

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ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

Humorously, we look at drugs in precisely the opposite way: it's socially "okay" to take them if you're in the negative, trying to get better...but it's unacceptable to be at 0 or already in the positives and using them to try and get higher (pun intended).

It's all relative. They are the same thing but for our propensities to consider certain things as more indicative of addiction, or need, or desperation (all things that people can still do when in the positive side of the scale).

The only useful difference lies in how many people who do it to get from the negatives regret doing it and wish they could stop, versus the amount of people who use it to get into the positives who feel the same way...but it doesn't matter where the person is, really, if they are feeling compelled to do something they genuinely wish they wouldn't. That's the area of concern.

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ORIGINAL: Prinsexx

So my question is: what is the connection between self-harm and masochism? Simply because masochism brings a sense of release also.

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ORIGINAL: SylvereApLeanan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx

So my question is: what is the connection between self-harm and masochism? Simply because masochism brings a sense of release also.

There's no way to extrapolate this. 
 
My best friend's girlfriend is a masochistic domme.  She cut herself, pierced herself and I don't know how many other things because she craved the endorphin rush masochism brings.  A friend dropped her off on the doorstep of an older, more experienced dominant so the woman could give her the sensations she craved before she did any lasting damage. 
 
OTOH, I have trichotillomania (plucking hair/eyelashes) and I am not masochistic in the least.  I don't cause myself pain and I don't let anyone else do it either.  When I pluck, it's a reaction to stress.  Half the time I don't even realize I've done it.  It's certainly not for a masochistic high.  Since SSRIs such as Wellbutrin help control the symptoms of trichotillomania, I suspect there's a different brain chemistry at work.

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ORIGINAL: Prinsexx

Thank you for responding. I'd like to ask how finding out about bdsm helps? doesn't it just sanctify (in terms of being conformist let's say) a behaviour which would otherwise remain closetted? There is, surely, something that assuages iguilt about acceptable bahaviour?

quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

If we look at happiness as a number scale (from -10 being hopelessly melancholy to +10 being ecstatic) I find self-harmers (as have been described here) are using pain as a way to get from a negative number back to 0, rather than to get from 0 to a higher positive number.

The effect is essentially the same but we tend to look at things more negatively (this is likely to account for greater guilt with the former actions compared to the latter) if the act wasn't begun from a 0 or positive status, as we view negative numbers as states of compromised mental capacity.

Great question.

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ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep

self-harming was about self-loathing and escapism, while BDSM is sexy, and fun, and a different way for people to have fun or to show they love each other.

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ORIGINAL: Palliata

I'm not sure I agree with the idea that kink masochists necessarily use pain to go from 0 to 10 instead of -10 to 0. I've met plenty for whom it's a release of their emotional tensions the same way self-harm is for that crowd. I've also met self-harm 'enthusiasts' (if you will) that do it for the high, the 0-10 as oppoesd to -10-0. Is either healthy? Maybe, maybe not. To each their own. But I'm not sure the distinction holds up.

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ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

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ORIGINAL: Palliata

I'm not sure I agree with the idea that kink masochists necessarily use pain to go from 0 to 10 instead of -10 to 0. I've met plenty for whom it's a release of their emotional tensions the same way self-harm is for that crowd. I've also met self-harm 'enthusiasts' (if you will) that do it for the high, the 0-10 as oppoesd to -10-0. Is either healthy? Maybe, maybe not. To each their own. But I'm not sure the distinction holds up.

Fair point. I think that what I describe is the typical perception, though...which goes back to my point of them effectively being the same (again, save for instances where it's an involuntary action later regretted).