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RE: finding a real sub/slave? - 4/17/2011 5:55:41 PM

HannahLynHeather

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quote:

Master used to be a title conferred after an apprenticeship served under other Masters. Until one was a master, one could not own new slaves, but only train with experienced slaves.

and who appointed these arbiters of masterliness? who did the first master serve his apprenticeship under? at some point somebody declared themselves a master, and others believed him...and thus this foolishness of a community and apprenticeships and earning titles and training slaves per the dictates of another. what sort of master follows another man's lead?

hannah lynn

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RE: finding a real sub/slave? - 4/17/2011 6:10:14 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Im like sunshine... I want the best, no matter what field or endeavor. What may be best for me, may not be best for sunshine.... what sunshine may look for in a man, I possibly wont.

Not picking on you sunshine.

No worries.

Happy to provide a counterpoint.

best,
sunshine

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RE: finding a real sub/slave? - 4/17/2011 6:28:36 PM

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quote:

Hmm. You consider being a Master to be someone capable of arousing you. I consider it someone versed in a certain activity - bondage, whips, etc.

Also, note that your example of a Master is defined by the reaction he produces in YOU. In other words, you consider him to be one.

I threw in my requirement for recognition to weed out those who consider themselves to be a Master... and nobody else does.

True DS. I have met lifestyle men who produced no reaction within me at all. I have met vanilla men who could make me twitch.. and couldnt "Master" a dog.

Being "Master" is all subjective to those within that relationship.

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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
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RE: finding a real sub/slave? - 4/17/2011 7:26:25 PM

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On the other hand, someone who declares he is capable of mastering a woman and then in the same breath announces he doesn't know how to and wants someone to teach him, isn't inspiring a lot of confidence.

OP, Oklahoma City has groups and it isn't that far a drive. I'd suggest you join those munches and take workshops there. Because even if someone declares you the most masterly man she's ever met, she's likely to change her mind the first time you try doing something to her without knowing what you're doing. Especially is she knows what's safe and what isn't. And even if she doesn't, once you have to get her to the ER to fix your errors, she will change her mind about you.

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RE: finding a real sub/slave? - 4/17/2011 8:04:08 PM

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~FR~
One, I've always heard you have to master yourself before you can Master someone else. I can believe a 20something can be a Dom/me, but a Master? Eh, not so much.

Two, OP, I know it's another site, but try www.fetlife.com and then search for Tulsa, OK. There are some groups listed on Fet for that area. There's not a lot, but there's a little bit.

~Hisprettybaby~

(in reply to DaddysInkedSlut)

RE: finding a real sub/slave? - 4/18/2011 12:35:02 PM

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This thread seems to have gone completely FUBAR, but I'll jump in anyway.

To the OP: Don't send anybody money. Period! Do as some have suggested and find the local kinky folks. They may be hard to find in your area, but they're there. You may even have to drive a few hours to get to them, but it will be worth the effort.

I like the fact that you're seeking to be mentored. It's not necessary, but it's a very good way to learn (IMO).

To the rest of you who are arguing over "mastery": I think you're using the term "master" in reference to different things, and that's where the problem is coming from.

In my opinion, one can master a skill. That is what some of you are referring to. Frankly, I don't think one can consider their self to be a master of a skill until they have put in time and effort practicing that particular skill in order to master it. There are many aspects of BDSM that I wouldn't even consider participating in with someone who hadn't put in the proper amount of training. For example, decorative bondage is something that you don't just grab a rope and claim to be a master at. It's hard and takes lots of practice. Similarly, suspension can be dangerous, and I wouldn't want to be suspended by someone who hadn't learned how prior to playing with me. Different types of impact play (whips, floggers, etc.) also fall into this category. Knife play, fire play, breath play, etc. are also areas that can be dangerous, and I wouldn't want someone with no clue of what they're doing to bring a knife near my throat or testicles. Skill is measurable. It can be tested. It's easy to determine whether someone is a master at a skill.

Others are referring to a completely different type of "mastery". They're talking about being able to master THEM. That's a completely different thing. While it is a valid thing to look for in a partner, it is not nearly so easy to measure as skills are. For example, have you ever been with a man or woman who was very experienced sexually, and past partners bragged about how good they were. But when you slept with him/her, it was pretty blah? That's because personal response to another individual is just that; personal.

For some of you, if Matthew McConaughey (sp?) walked in the room, the mere sight of him would make you wet. He would have "mastered" you by simply walking into the room. Others might not react to him at all.

Personal attraction is completely biochemical. It's about as individualized as it gets. So the person who you claim is so "masterful" because he mastered you, might not have the same effect on his next partner. Does that make his mastery over you any less real? No, but it also implies that his mastery is not universal.

Remember that one move that you used to do on your former girlfriend/boyfriend that used to send him/her into convulsive orgasms? Yet, when you tried it on the next girlfriend/boyfriend, it didn't work. Does that mean that you lost your mastery? Or does it mean that you were never a master in the first place?

IMO, using the term "master" in a context of interpersonal relationships is a false premise. Being able to generate a biochemical response in YOU does not necessarily mean that he/she can do it in anyone other than you. Therefore, the term "master" is being falsely applied.

That doesn't negate the fact that he f*cked you/aroused you/spanked you/licked your pussy better than anyone else ever has. But what he/she did to you was completely biochemical. It was a personal response which cannot be quantified. So how then do we test him/her to determine their "mastery"? Moreover, when their next partner thinks they're lame, does that make your response to that person any less valid? I think not.

(in reply to agtmiller)

RE: finding a real sub/slave? - 4/18/2011 12:39:16 PM

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Excellent post!!!!

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Rochsub2009)

RE: finding a real sub/slave? - 4/18/2011 1:08:18 PM

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Carrying on with your point about personal perspective, not only are some people referring to "mastering rope bondage" and others "mastering me"... but in addition what "mastering me" refers to is similarly vague. If what we're talking about is taking ownership of a human, lock stock & barrel that's an entirely different kettle of fish from "making me squishy in a dominant sort of way". The first of those necessitates a raft of life skills and the second sexual skills (well, ignoring for a moment the vagaries of "chemistry").

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I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
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(in reply to Rochsub2009)

RE: finding a real sub/slave? - 4/18/2011 3:38:11 PM

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agreed, Rouchsub, excellent post

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RE: finding a real sub/slave? - 4/18/2011 3:47:20 PM

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Mastery of other people is a skill.

Also, Hannah Lynn, almost every man of power in the world reports to a supervisor. Good leaders tend to be good followers as well. Men who refuse to follow other men are more likely to be anarchists than dominants in the vanilla world.

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Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to salemartist)

RE: finding a real sub/slave? - 4/18/2011 3:55:23 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: agtmiller

I am new to being a Master and I am looking for a sub/slave to help me become a better master.

this is where the OP went wrong, it opened him up to be critisized.

He admits to being new, but proclaims himself a Master. He then goes on to ask advise on how to be a Master.
This is the kind of thing that happens far too often, some kid surfing porn stumbles upon CM and decides to use as many of the catch phrases as he can, decides he likes the sounds of demanding sex acts from a woman and thinks "I must be one of dem dere Doms"
Then he funbles around the site and sees some profiles or posts using the term "Master" and thinks "well that there is even betterden bein a Dom, I think imma Mastah"
Shortly after that he sends out about 400 private maeesages to any and all women listed as sub or slave within a 250 mile radius. After getting a few responses he demands they come to him and give him a blowjob immediately, all of which are declined so he decides its time to shift gears and use the message board to find himself a "real sub" aka "some bitch to come over and blow me"

By now he has come back to see if he got any bites and saw that hes stirred the pot and has no clue what to do now.

(in reply to agtmiller)

RE: finding a real sub/slave? - 4/18/2011 3:58:43 PM

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RochSub -
i understand your perspective, and I think in many ways we are in agreement. Certainly we are in agreement that we are talking about different situations. However, there are a couple of points to which I'd like to respond.

Mastering one person. There is certainly chemistry where attraction is concerned. However, attraction is not mastery. You can meet someone and become so enamored that you can't think... HEAVY attraction. But it can disappear pretty quickly. Sometimes as soon as they open their mouth and begin speaking. That's where chemistry fails us. There has to be more than just chemistry. Also, the submissive person *responding* to the chemistry is a piece of this. If they choose not to respond or are resistant, that's where SKILL comes in. Again... it's not just *poof* you have it. If that were the case, then con artists and public speakers would not have to hone their people skills.

Matthew McConauhey. I would disagree that if he walked in the door he has already mastered people just by walking into the room. That's not accurate. If he walked into the room, he has already worked on himself, perfected his craft, perfected his body and charm (part of working on his craft). He's just some guy unless you've seen his work. It's not that he's a hot, sexy guy. It's that he's a hot, sexy, FAMOUS, RICH guy who has done a lot of work to increase his skill that people are familiar with.

Chemistry only goes so far. Really, even in mastering another person, it is skill based ime.

best,
sunshine

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Yes, I am a wonton hussy... and still sweet as 3.14

(in reply to Rochsub2009)

RE: finding a real sub/slave? - 4/18/2011 4:26:33 PM

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Salemartist, your opinions seem to be very competitive with other men. So and so group of people can't possibly be real, that kind of thing. I don't see the long term benefit in defining myself in relation to the weakness of others.

Or short term benefit. For example, you said self-named masters don't deserve the title. And yet, Master Fire named herself a master, and anyone who wants to argue with her is a fool. I could go on, but I won't, as I am sure you mean well. I think, though, that BDSM is broader than your current philosophy.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to sunshinemiss)

RE: finding a real sub/slave? - 4/18/2011 4:37:24 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

Chemistry only goes so far. Really, even in mastering another person, it is skill based ime.

I can agree with that. As with any interpersonal skill, one's ability to read and controlling another person can improve with experience. But there are two problems that I have with this.

Firstly, I don't believe that this is what the people who brought this up were talking about. Someone specifically said "he makes me squishy", and another said that her "master" was able to master her immediately even though he had no prior experience. To me, these sound more like the biochemical reaction that I mentioned earlier. While it is possible that someone "mastered" someone immediately without having any prior experience, how can this person be labeled a "master", when they probably don't even know how they did what they did. Moreover, they're unlikely to achieve the same result with another random sub. Heck, I can probably hit a good note on a trumpet every now and then, but that doesn't make me Winton Marsalis.

The second problem I have with it is that human behavior is hard to quantify. That's why psychology is a pseudo-science. The results often can't be duplicated. Moreover, the same stimulus will likely have different results on different people. So even the person who is "skilled" at mastering others (as you called it) will have varying degrees of success based on his/her subject. That doesn't qualify as true mastery to me.

For me to recognize someone as a master of controlling others, they'd have to have Jedi mind control powers.

But of course, I'm an engineer by training. So I believe in data and the scientific method. If the results can't be repeated consistently, then I'm not convinced. That's why I struggle with psychology. I don't deal well with soft science. And "mastering other people" is about 9 rungs lower than astrology as far as being scientific.

< Message edited by Rochsub2009 -- 4/18/2011 4:43:40 PM >

(in reply to sunshinemiss)

RE: finding a real sub/slave? - 4/18/2011 4:43:05 PM

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quote:

the OP) is neither master or dom, no more than a guy in a music store thinking about buying a guitar is a guitarist.

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RE: finding a real sub/slave? - 4/18/2011 4:49:10 PM

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Sunny
Quote of the Day
goes to
Rochsub2009

for
For me to recognize someone as a master of controlling others,
they'd have to have Jedi mind control powers.

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RE: finding a real sub/slave? - 4/18/2011 5:41:01 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

Salemartist, your opinions seem to be very competitive with other men. So and so group of people can't possibly be real, that kind of thing. I don't see the long term benefit in defining myself in relation to the weakness of others.

Or short term benefit. For example, you said self-named masters don't deserve the title. And yet, Master Fire named herself a master, and anyone who wants to argue with her is a fool. I could go on, but I won't, as I am sure you mean well. I think, though, that BDSM is broader than your current philosophy.

You'd also be foolish because you would be wrong. She didn't name herself a Master. She received her cap in the leather community a number of years ago, so the title of Master is absolutely recognized by others.

For those of you who want to give Me grief about leather traditions, she also happens to hold a MS in Physics.

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RE: finding a real sub/slave? - 4/18/2011 6:47:40 PM

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I agree with LadyPact.. To me, a master title has to be earned.

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RE: finding a real sub/slave? - 4/18/2011 7:29:58 PM

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From: Salem
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

Salemartist, your opinions seem to be very competitive with other men. So and so group of people can't possibly be real, that kind of thing. I don't see the long term benefit in defining myself in relation to the weakness of others.

Or short term benefit. For example, you said self-named masters don't deserve the title.

I said that? I must have been stoned...
let me clarify...
if this guy is a Master (op) then would prefer NOT to be refered to as such.

I will requote myself, seems Kali got it...

"Claiming you are a Master doesn't make you one, any more then standing in a music store looking at guitars, makes you a guitarist."

"Going to chucrh doesnt make you a christian"

"standing in a garage doesn't make you a car"

when I was in high school we called people "poser" im pretty confident a guy with no experience, nobody devoted to him, and looking for oyhers to hold his hand and show him the way, is a Poser Dom.

(in reply to RedMagic1)

RE: finding a real sub/slave? - 4/18/2011 10:33:29 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
1. You are NOT a Master. A master is someone with considerable experience and recognition by others. You are a new Dom.

So sayeth the Grandmaster of the Masters' Licensure Board

. The day you decide you need recognition by the so-called community in order to call yourself a master, you're well and truly fucked. While everyone who terms themselves a master certainly isn't, the body politic certainly need not be involved in any way.

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I speak not of The Way, but only My Way. Think it not an indictment of Your Way.

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