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RE: finding a real sub/slave? - 4/18/2011 10:55:08 PM

HannahLynHeather

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quote:

Men who refuse to follow other men are more likely to be anarchists than dominants in the vanilla world.

and my kind of man; a man of intelligence, insight, wisdom, and political astuteness!

hannah lynn

_____________________________

clique? i don't need no stinking clique!

fuck a duck ~w. disney

My Twitter: http://twitter.com/HannahFuck

i hope you enjoyed the post, and as always my friends....have a nice day

(in reply to RedMagic1)

RE: finding a real sub/slave? - 4/20/2011 10:58:19 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

Salemartist, your opinions seem to be very competitive with other men. So and so group of people can't possibly be real, that kind of thing. I don't see the long term benefit in defining myself in relation to the weakness of others.

Or short term benefit. For example, you said self-named masters don't deserve the title. And yet, Master Fire named herself a master, and anyone who wants to argue with her is a fool. I could go on, but I won't, as I am sure you mean well. I think, though, that BDSM is broader than your current philosophy.

You'd also be foolish because you would be wrong. She didn't name herself a Master. She received her cap in the leather community a number of years ago, so the title of Master is absolutely recognized by others.

For those of you who want to give Me grief about leather traditions, she also happens to hold a MS in Physics.

LP, she has stated here she chose the title for herself as part of her spiritual path. I'm not going to dig up the link.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to LadyPact)

RE: finding a real sub/slave? - 4/20/2011 5:23:55 PM

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Both are correct then, Red.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to RedMagic1)

RE: finding a real sub/slave? - 4/20/2011 7:31:53 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Palliata
The day you decide you need recognition by the so-called community in order to call yourself a master, you're well and truly fucked. While everyone who terms themselves a master certainly isn't, the body politic certainly need not be involved in any way.

I agree. Someone who knows who and what they are will just laugh when somebody else tries to define what they can or cannot be, based on something as superficial at their age. Sometimes slaves do this as well, at least to the types who insist they cannot possibly exist.

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My profile is not turned off. It is broken and I am too lazy to make a new one.

(in reply to Palliata)

RE: finding a real sub/slave? - 5/1/2011 5:13:36 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
You are NOT a Master. A master is someone with considerable experience and recognition by others. You are a new Dom.

Master does have more than one definition.

I believe the OP meant "Master" by the definition of "a man who has people working for him, esp. servants or slaves" (as in the Dom in a TPE relationship), and you mean "a skilled practitioner of a particular art or activity." I think he is correct in the term "Master" if he intends to have a slave and not just a sub. Not to say that the two definitions are mutually exclusive, since you can be skilled in bondage and have a slave. I think you jumped to conclusions without first asking the OP by what definition he was using the word. Oh, and by using all caps, even for just one word, I think you were trying to be rude and condescending.

(in reply to DarkSteven)

RE: finding a real sub/slave? - 5/1/2011 5:35:22 PM

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From: Salem
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quote:

ORIGINAL: StTheo

]I believe the OP meant "Master" by the definition of "a man who has people working for him, esp. servants or slaves" (as in the Dom in a TPE relationship

the OP does NOT have a servent or a slave, he is just a guy with a wish.
by the defintition you quote, a MAster is someone who IS being served, not a newbie DOm thats never had a D/s releationship let alone a full time TPE as you state in your definition.

I want to fly in rockets in outer space.... does that make me an Astronaut?

< Message edited by salemartist -- 5/1/2011 5:58:21 PM >

(in reply to StTheo)

RE: finding a real sub/slave? - 5/1/2011 6:11:44 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: salemartist

the OP does NOT have a servent or a slave, he is just a guy with a wish.
by the defintition you quote, a MAster is someone who IS being served, not a newbie DOm thats never had a D/s releationship let alone a full time TPE as you state in your definition.

It was my understanding that the labels in BDSM refer to a spectrum of dominance/submissiveness (Master -> Dom -> Switch -> Sub -> Slave), where a "Master," in terms of BDSM, was not a recreational Dom, but someone who was only interested in total dominance of another individual. You seem to be thinking of the term "Master" as something someone earns, as opposed to a way of life.

(in reply to salemartist)

RE: finding a real sub/slave? - 5/1/2011 6:22:41 PM

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From: Salem
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oh sure, I agree. in BDSM terms the M/s refers to Master/slave as a lifestyle. but my point is this particular fellow is not yet in that lifestyle maybe we could coin a term like "Master-curious" or something like that. It is a lifestyle choice, but you dont actually become a vegan until you quit eating meat, right?

I requote myself:
"Claiming you are a Master doesn't make you one, any more then standing in a music store looking at guitars, makes you a guitarist."
(you have to actually own the guitar and have some inclination to play it)

(in reply to StTheo)

RE: finding a real sub/slave? - 5/1/2011 10:43:17 PM

OwnedFemaleFlesh

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
1. You are NOT a Master. A master is someone with considerable experience and recognition by others. You are a new Dom.

I agree that he is not a Master, not because he lacks experience, but because Master is a relational word like sister or brother, you can't be a Master if you don't have someone or something to be the Master of, imho. I also find it strange when people refer to themselves as slaves when they're unowned. The whole concept of slavery is ownership, if you aren't owned, how can you be a slave?

*fans the flames and runs away*

owned xxx

(in reply to DarkSteven)

RE: finding a real sub/slave? - 5/1/2011 10:45:46 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OwnedFemaleFlesh

I agree that he is not a Master, not because he lacks experience, but because Master is a relational word like sister or brother, you can't be a Master if you don't have someone or something to be the Master of, imho. I also find it strange when people refer to themselves as slaves when they're unowned. The whole concept of slavery is ownership, if you aren't owned, how can you be a slave?

*fans the flames and runs away*

owned xxx

I agree with you on that actually. But there's no terminology (that I know of) for people who want those positions but are currently single. Advertising as a Dom or a sub wouldn't exactly be accurate either, in many cases.

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Packmate of Max

Fukin Trollop, whipping boi, and unapologetic uberslut

I can't shake this feeling in my head
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(in reply to OwnedFemaleFlesh)

RE: finding a real sub/slave? - 5/2/2011 12:09:32 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LazyKitten

quote:

ORIGINAL: HannahLynHeather

being a master is a state of mind, it has nothing to do with experience, training, or references.

I agree with you 100% about this. I have tried with Doms that were supposedly experienced and WELL known in the community. It took me about a week before I was able to top from the bottom.

This was a particularly apropos counter stroke to the idea "Master" is summed up neatly as a title awarded through peer validation and technical prowess—an institutional fetish more than a few embrace that's as useful as the official BDSM flag. Put too much trust in gimmicks, technical diddle and the stale wisdom of empty mantras, and that pretty little submissive thing you think you "own" is going to eat your lunch.

As HannahLynHeather rather succinctly put it, being a Master is a matter of actualization and psychological depth. I'd trust roughly hewn natural proclivity over dubious "years of experience" any day in the long run.

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Omnes una manet nox

Founder, Humbled Females

(in reply to LazyKitten)

RE: finding a real sub/slave? - 5/2/2011 4:13:17 AM

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At the top of every email you open there is a message...it says

DO NOT SEND MONEY TO OTHER USERS FOR ANY REASON!

there is a reason for this. Can you figure out what that reason is?

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This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi

(in reply to agtmiller)

RE: finding a real sub/slave? - 5/2/2011 5:15:54 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: StTheo

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
You are NOT a Master. A master is someone with considerable experience and recognition by others. You are a new Dom.

Master does have more than one definition.

I believe the OP meant "Master" by the definition of "a man who has people working for him, esp. servants or slaves" (as in the Dom in a TPE relationship), and you mean "a skilled practitioner of a particular art or activity." I think he is correct in the term "Master" if he intends to have a slave and not just a sub. Not to say that the two definitions are mutually exclusive, since you can be skilled in bondage and have a slave. I think you jumped to conclusions without first asking the OP by what definition he was using the word. Oh, and by using all caps, even for just one word, I think you were trying to be rude and condescending.

Welcome to collarme, StTheo.

While Master, does have many different meanings in the vanilla world, I think it's safe to assume that OP meant it in the lifestyle meaning.

Your idea that a Master is someone who owns a slave as opposed to a sub, leads to circular reasoning. Is a slave someone owned by a Master, then?

You claim in your profile that you are preparing to be a Master. I assume that you then have some idea of the point at which you will have achieved that. Could you share how you will know you're there? THAT is your definition of being a Master.

And I capitalize single words for emphasis. I don't consider it shouting. Or rude.

Welcome again.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to StTheo)

RE: finding a real sub/slave? - 5/4/2011 3:56:22 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OwnedFemaleFlesh
I also find it strange when people refer to themselves as slaves when they're unowned. The whole concept of slavery is ownership, if you aren't owned, how can you be a slave?

The short answer to this is that the condition of "ownership" in this time and place is very difficult to ascertain despite the presence of a second "masterly" body that the alleged "slave" is shacking up with or claims to have a "contract" with. While anybody can claim to technically be a slave due to the presence of that second body, it has been my experience that the majority of such individuals are not describing anything close to what I'd call slavery. A master-slave relationship is largely mental and due to that, invisible to outside eyes. I have a strong suspicion, though, that most actual slaves (based, of course, on the rigid standards by which I define that term) are not out in the bdsm community declaring their slavehood, except perhaps for a brief period of time in order to complete a specific goal of their master's. I suspect most genuinely owned slaves are voiceless and hidden from the world.

Collarme encourages people to refer to themselves as slaves when they are unowned by providing individuals looking for a dominant partner (and thus, one would assume, unowned) with the option to label themselves as a submissive or a slave when creating a personal ad. I understand the purpose for that: it's to advertise that you want to be a slave. Since a great many of the submissive people you encounter online have been through CM's personal-ad grist mill, unfortunately things have gotten conflated: the idea that any person desiring to be a slave actually is a slave has become unconsciously and almost universally accepted, despite its absurdity.

If I knew someone who'd never wanted anything in her life except slavery and identified/agreed/complied completely with what I feel are the most basic and hardcore tenets of slavery, I would personally call that individual a slave, even if he or she chose to call themselves by the more technically correct "potential slave."

What I'm trying to say is that when you are quite experienced with slavery, you can recognize a slave, no matter what it calls itself. A temporarily unowned slave doesn't magically or instantly become a free, self-determining individual if their past slavery was real and particularly if they're making every effort possible since they became unowned to find someone else capable of completely mastering and owning them.

Since I know the condition of slavery in this day and age has to be largely mentally enforced, it makes perfect sense to me that were I to judge whether someone is a slave or not, a great deal would depend on their inner condition, attitude, motivation (not to mention the attitude of the master, if there is one in the picture).

_____________________________

"Isn't it odd how we misunderstand the hidden unity of kindness and cruelty?"

My profile is not turned off. It is broken and I am too lazy to make a new one.

(in reply to OwnedFemaleFlesh)

RE: finding a real sub/slave? - 5/4/2011 4:09:50 PM

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Send them a dollar. Tell them to use that to get as far as it will take them, and to walk the rest of the way. If they don't then they're not serious about being a slave.

(in reply to agtmiller)

RE: finding a real sub/slave? - 5/5/2011 9:34:00 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: aromanholiday
it has been my experience that the majority of such individuals are not describing anything close to what I'd call slavery

Fair enough. Of course in my experience the majority of the people who are, in fact, doing something that they call "M/s" and investing quite a bit of actual, serious, commitment and dedication to it STILL don't look much like what I'd call "slavery". I strongly suspect that this is the norm for everyone.

The whole business of can one be a slave when one is unowned is, in my not at all humble opinion, just another bit of community snarkiness. There's nothing the BDSM community likes better than putting each other down. Honestly, I'd think any adult english speaker over the age of about 10 would understand how a therterm "slave" might imply "a type well suited to slavery" or "a currently owned individual". Failure to do the obvious means the motives are .... not obvious.

Out of curiosity, would anyone here be confused by the sentence, "Bob's a programmer who lost his job in the last round of layoffs" ?? I'm guessing not.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to aromanholiday)

RE: finding a real sub/slave? - 5/5/2011 11:35:39 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527
Fair enough. Of course in my experience the majority of the people who are, in fact, doing something that they call "M/s" and investing quite a bit of actual, serious, commitment and dedication to it STILL don't look much like what I'd call "slavery". I strongly suspect that this is the norm for everyone.

Ha! If you ever think we're all going to come to a common definition for M/s, it's going to be a very long wait.

quote:

The whole business of can one be a slave when one is unowned is, in my not at all humble opinion, just another bit of community snarkiness. There's nothing the BDSM community likes better than putting each other down. Honestly, I'd think any adult english speaker over the age of about 10 would understand how a therterm "slave" might imply "a type well suited to slavery" or "a currently owned individual". Failure to do the obvious means the motives are .... not obvious.

I don't think it's snarkiness. If we took a different lifestyle subject, such as poly for example, we can say the same thing and people don't get offended. I tell people on a fairly regular basis that, until you've included poly into your life, you really don't know how you will react to living it. A person saying they want a thing *so much* that they feel like that is what they are inside is not the same thing as putting the theory into practice. Just like people who swear they are poly until they try it and find it doesn't work for them, the same can be said for Masters, slaves, and any other thing that people *want* to be but haven't accomplished yet.

quote:

Out of curiosity, would anyone here be confused by the sentence, "Bob's a programmer who lost his job in the last round of layoffs" ?? I'm guessing not.

This argument comes up every single time these threads come up. How do you equate "never been" to "prior experience"?

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to leadership527)

RE: finding a real sub/slave? - 5/5/2011 1:40:50 PM

OwnedFemaleFlesh

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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527
Out of curiosity, would anyone here be confused by the sentence, "Bob's a programmer who lost his job in the last round of layoffs" ?? I'm guessing not.

Having a skill is something that doesn't change regardless of whether it is in use. Progamming would be such a skill. My brother is a computer programmer. He was a programmer before he was employed, he programmes when he is on holiday and he'll still be a programmer once he has retired (he loves programming!)

But if a person said they were self employed, but then it turned out they'd never run their own business, or if someone described themselves as a loving husband, when they were divorced, I'd find this odd, and slightly strange. It would suggest to me that they were clinging to a former or hoped for status and it comes across as slightly needy and desperate. Getting others to call them Master / slave just enables their sexual fantasy world, and in all honesty, that makes me feel a bit icky.

Obviously, I am not accusing the OP of any such ickiness, he seems like a sweet newbie who posted in all innocence, and good luck to him. But the point remains, once he has a submissive, she will be the one to call him Master, not me or anyone else, and certainly not just because he has decided to bestow that title upon himself. My Owner is Sir, everyone else is just Mr or Missus, to me anyway!

owned xxx

(in reply to leadership527)

RE: finding a real sub/slave? - 5/5/2011 2:19:53 PM

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quote:

It is a lifestyle choice, but you dont actually become a vegan until you quit eating meat, right?

Oh, philosophically, I am TOTALLY a vegan! In practice, not so much.

(in reply to salemartist)

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