RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males?

RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? (Full Version)

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DarkSteven -> RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? (4/26/2011 4:43:22 PM)
Depends on what you mean by submissive. If you mean someone who's passive, then yes, I feel a man should not wait for life. (It's not a gender thing - I don't like helplessness.) If you mean someone who tries to meet the world and enjoy it, then I have no qualms about him being sub. There is a local submissive man who takes deep pride in his submission, and affects an old-worldly air, mixed with a little Goth, that I find really cool.

Lockit -> RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? (4/26/2011 4:47:47 PM)
I actually know bluesbeech through his domina, whom I know personally. From what I have seen, heard and know of, there have been times when submissive men... as well as dominant women were treated as if they were less than the dominant men, by some dominant men around these parts. Of course they were shown to be real idiots, but still it happened. It is one of the reasons I do not like public anythings because I have been there, seen that and don't care to fight a cause every time I wish to join in. While things have changed... they haven't always been as they are with some change, but that change has a long way to go because in public events it is still happening in some places. Blue has my admiration, respect and envy! Let me tell you! Because I can only dream of having a submissive partner like she has found in her beech! New to posting on the forums, there were a few threads that were rather disrespectful of submissive males. They were disgusting. I wasn't too happy about them either.. but I wasn't a newbie forum reader and poster that was a part of the group that was being attacked. I might have blown a few circuits myself had I been. lol I hope my friends won't be upset that I spoke up here or try to use it as a means to whack me hard with one of those fancy lil tools Blue owns! You can come sit in my chair if you forgive me! [;)]

peppermint -> RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? (4/26/2011 5:57:16 PM)
Some of our best friends are male submissives. We actually like them.

BKSir -> RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? (4/26/2011 5:59:42 PM)
Nah, I love them. I'd be pretty messed up if I didn't though. I mean, how would I have a sub if I had contempt for them. That would be pretty self defeating, no?

BlueHnS -> RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? (4/26/2011 6:00:46 PM)
Aww Lockit! I'm not mad, and no you don't have to offer me the use of your (fabulously wonderful) chair. I know I'm long overdue for a visit. As for my fancy lil tools well those are for the wonderboy .. but you were right in your first thread ... I will go buy some pre~used toys ... and mayhap even find a rusty railroad spike or two for anyone who would look on my male as less than he truly is! as to the OP ... I can not tell you what male dominants think but I can say this .. I've yet to meet anyone that openly views male submissives as lesser. I've also never met anyone that had the balls to act that way in my presence even if it was a quieter level of disgust. ~ Blue ~

ChatteParfaitt -> RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? (4/26/2011 6:46:23 PM)
A first class s-type of any gender is a wonder to behold and a joy to own. In my 30 plus years in the lifestyle, I have seen female dommes disrespected, male s-types treated with insolence and contempt, and fetishists and the transgendered openly snubbed. Switches were told they did not exist, they were merely "confused." I am glad to say I see less and less of this (unless you count those online groups who appear to have more of a fantasy foundation to their kink). Any of the above behavior tells me the person is not terribly open minded and is therefore not compatible with my thinking.

NocturnalStalker -> RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? (4/26/2011 7:31:12 PM)
Hah...I never thought about it until now but I usually do slouch over when speaking to one so I'm down at their level.

Awareness -> RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? (4/26/2011 9:30:37 PM)
Yes, pretty much. I see submissive men in terms of pathology. Testosterone gives men natural advantages. It's our birthright and almost without exception uniquely distinguishes us from women. Submissive men have effectively given up that birthright. They've turned their back on the challenge of being a man and have given in to their fear and weakness. Gender polarisation is somewhat unfashionable in societies which would like to erase the differences between men and women, but it's this very polarisation which drives sexual attraction. Many fail to understand that.

NiceGuyNihilist -> RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? (4/26/2011 10:00:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Awareness Yes, pretty much. I see submissive men in terms of pathology. Testosterone gives men natural advantages. It's our birthright and almost without exception uniquely distinguishes us from women. Submissive men have effectively given up that birthright. They've turned their back on the challenge of being a man and have given in to their fear and weakness. Gender polarisation is somewhat unfashionable in societies which would like to erase the differences between men and women, but it's this very polarisation which drives sexual attraction. Many fail to understand that. Thank you, and selectivelight; you've given just the sort of considered responses I was hoping for. About birthright: Do you believe it impossible, then, that some men are genetically endowed with a submissive streak? If we were, wouldn't the submissive drive be our birthright in exactly the same sense that testosterone is? It's possible that I fantasized about having my face sat on by my kindergarten teacher, and chased girls around the playground in the vain hope that they'd punish me in retaliation, because of environmental factors. But I can't remember a single thing I was exposed to that might have inspired such intense desires--and believe me, I've tried to remember. Thanks again for having the balls to speak up.

AneNoz -> RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? (4/26/2011 10:06:31 PM)
I realize that this was posted in the Ask a Master forum, and addressed to male dominants, but as it seems that the practice here is for anyone to reply to any thread, I will reply. There are three points in your post, which I wish to address. quote: Logically, if women are the inferior sex, and if it's a disgraceful thing for a man to be fucked, then it's more disgraceful for a man to be fucked by a woman than by a man because it implies willing surrender to a natural inferior. First: There is no such thing as a superior or inferior sex. They are by nature complimentary equals. Second: There is no disgrace in any act from which consenting adults derive pleasure. If a man was not meant to derive pleasure from being penetrated, then his rectum would be devoid of the nerve endings which render such penetration pleasureable. If you enjoy such penetration it is simply because you have freed your self of the chains of social convention which teach that there is shame inherent in any act between lovers, and allow your body to give you all the joys of which it is capable. quote: do you have contempt for submissive males, and if so, why? Third: A person who has contempt for another based merely on the forms by which that other takes the pleasure which is promised us all in life does so because they are threatened by the one they feel contempt for. It is a defensive strategy to enable the first to feel stronger and superior to that which they fear. Be at peace Aneka

NiceGuyNihilist -> RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? (4/26/2011 10:48:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AneNoz I realize that this was posted in the Ask a Master forum, and addressed to male dominants, but as it seems that the practice here is for anyone to reply to any thread, I will reply. There are three points in your post, which I wish to address. quote: Logically, if women are the inferior sex, and if it's a disgraceful thing for a man to be fucked, then it's more disgraceful for a man to be fucked by a woman than by a man because it implies willing surrender to a natural inferior. First: There is no such thing as a superior or inferior sex. They are by nature complimentary equals. Second: There is no disgrace in any act from which consenting adults derive pleasure. If a man was not meant to derive pleasure from being penetrated, then his rectum would be devoid of the nerve endings which render such penetration pleasureable. If you enjoy such penetration it is simply because you have freed your self of the chains of social convention which teach that there is shame inherent in any act between lovers, and allow your body to give you all the joys of which it is capable. quote: do you have contempt for submissive males, and if so, why? Third: A person who has contempt for another based merely on the forms by which that other takes the pleasure which is promised us all in life does so because they are threatened by the one they feel contempt for. It is a defensive strategy to enable the first to feel stronger and superior to that which they fear. Be at peace Aneka I appreciate your post because you obviously wrote it in a spirit of kindness and assurance, but I'm afraid you've partially misunderstood me. When I wrote this: Logically, if women are the inferior sex, and if it's a disgraceful thing for a man to be fucked, then it's more disgraceful for a man to be fucked by a woman than by a man because it implies willing surrender to a natural inferior. I was not describing my own view, but making my best attempt to fully adopt the perspective of the guy who had contempt for men who submit to women, so that I could understand him. Believe me, I am secure about the validity of my pleasure. :) Also, it doesn't logically follow that because anal penetration can be pleasurable, asses were designed to be penetrated. Trees weren't made for the sake of the bears that scratch their backs on them. But the point hardly matters here; I find no more shame in my pleasure than a bear does in his. And that's exactly why I have the confidence, as a guy with a mile-wide submissive streak, to open a civil discussion with dominant men who have certain opinions of submissive men. I do appreciate the compassion which obviously pervades your philosophy, even if I find it less than logically convincing. And by the way, you're fucking hot.

Kana -> RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? (4/26/2011 10:59:02 PM)
Grins I give you a friends hard core perspective: "Slaves are neither male nor female. They are just slaves."

AneNoz -> RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? (4/26/2011 11:51:40 PM)
I did assume that you, as a man who does enjoy this activity, did not believe these things, and I did not mean to imply that I attributed them to you. A misunderstanding perhaps? quote: Also, it doesn't logically follow that because anal penetration can be pleasurable, asses were designed to be penetrated. Trees weren't made for the sake of the bears that scratch their backs on them. There are no accidents of design in this world, the tree's bark is rough for many reasons. I thank you for the compliment. Be at peace Aneka

AneNoz -> RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? (4/26/2011 11:56:23 PM)
quote: Gender polarisation is somewhat unfashionable in societies which would like to erase the differences between men and women, but it's this very polarisation which drives sexual attraction. Many fail to understand that. How, then, do you explain the sexual attraction that is felt by same sex couples? I ask this not to be argumentative, but because I am genuinely interested. Be at peace Aneka

Awareness -> RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? (4/27/2011 1:07:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NiceGuyNihilist About birthright: Do you believe it impossible, then, that some men are genetically endowed with a submissive streak? If we were, wouldn't the submissive drive be our birthright in exactly the same sense that testosterone is? No. The influence of genetics upon personality is not sharply defined, but I've seen very little to indicate it's responsible for ostensibly natural inclinations in high cognitive function. Dominance is partially informed by locus of control which is a facility built by experience. quote: It's possible that I fantasized about having my face sat on by my kindergarten teacher, and chased girls around the playground in the vain hope that they'd punish me in retaliation, because of environmental factors. But I can't remember a single thing I was exposed to that might have inspired such intense desires--and believe me, I've tried to remember. Whilst single events can sometimes be responsible for the acquisition of a fetish, it usually requires some kind of followup which reinforces the connection to pleasure. In all probability though, it's not a single event. It's a series of decisions made over years which reinforce a constant view of the world. It's like those guys who've grown up with an overbearing mother. Even in their 20's, 30's and sometimes 40's, their mother retains the power to influence or even wreck their relationships. I want to smack some sense into these milksops and point out they've left the nest and should be thinking for themselves. It's no wonder their women give up on them. quote: Thanks again for having the balls to speak up. It's a response to a direct question. I raise an eyebrow at some of the antics of submissive men but it's not a crusade, merely a way of looking at some aspects of the people in this arena. Consequently I don't go out of my way to engage in debate with them, simply because we have completely different world-views. I'm kind of amused that so many alleged Dominants in here haven't the stones to come forward. Frankly, I find my attitudes common amongst Dominant men and submissive women, so it's not like I'm an outlier here.

Awareness -> RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? (4/27/2011 1:12:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AneNoz How, then, do you explain the sexual attraction that is felt by same sex couples? I ask this not to be argumentative, but because I am genuinely interested. I can't and I probably should've qualified my statements by indicating I was referring to heterosexual interactions only. Having said that though, I guess I could theorise that many same-sex couples end up with sexual polarity due to the participants each assuming a masculine and feminine role, even if that only takes place behind closed doors. In circumstances in which they don't - say for example, two femmes - then it's possible that lack of sexual polarity may be a contributor to lesbian bed-death. However that's pure speculation on my part, not a strongly held view.

AneNoz -> RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? (4/27/2011 1:46:15 AM)
Yes, stereotypically lesbians do assume butch and femme roles, though I find this to be more imagined than real. I also see less of the polarity of roles in gay male couples. Most that I know are either two very male types or two effeminate types, but I concede I do not have a large number of gay male friends on which to base a firm opinion. I had to Google "lesbian bed-death" and it means what I thought it would. I have been involved with one of my slaves for 8 years and we have not experienced this. Perhaps that is not long enough, or perhaps the M/s aspect substitutes for the normal heterosexual polarity you spoke of. I have a thought, though, regarding your original post. Would not a Dominant woman and a submissive man indeed have this polarity in their relationship, having merely switched the players of the traditional roles? An idea worth considering, no? Be at peace Aneka

VaguelyCurious -> RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? (4/27/2011 1:54:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Awareness Frankly, I find my attitudes common amongst Dominant men and submissive women, so it's not like I'm an outlier here. And frankly my real-life experience says otherwise, which would suggest that both our impressions of the general consensus are coloured by the company we choose.

Awareness -> RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? (4/27/2011 2:33:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AneNoz Yes, stereotypically lesbians do assume butch and femme roles, though I find this to be more imagined than real. Butch and femme are extremes. Masculine and feminine polarity can be as subtle as the distinction between protector and nurturer roles. If you believe in that sort of thing, which I gather many don't. quote: I also see less of the polarity of roles in gay male couples. Most that I know are either two very male types or two effeminate types, but I concede I do not have a large number of gay male friends on which to base a firm opinion. Me neither. The butch john/screaming queen combination is stereotypical and it'd probably require some hard-core research to discern the statistics. quote: I had to Google "lesbian bed-death" and it means what I thought it would. I have been involved with one of my slaves for 8 years and we have not experienced this. Perhaps that is not long enough, or perhaps the M/s aspect substitutes for the normal heterosexual polarity you spoke of. Depends on your definition of 'involved' and you mention 'slaves' which implies the possibility you're poly. Both are potentially relevant, however the M/s dynamic strikes me as an essentially masculine/feminine one anyway, so yes I think you might be onto something there. quote: I have a thought, though, regarding your original post. Would not a Dominant woman and a submissive man indeed have this polarity in their relationship, having merely switched the players of the traditional roles? An idea worth considering, no? The difficulty there is that you've got the gender of the roles fighting against the gender of the participants. When a woman assumes an aggressive, commanding role she doesn't enhance her femininity. When a man drops to his knees and does as he's told, he doesn't enhance his masculinity. Both compromise their basic gender and head toward each other on the gender scale rather than away. Consequently the polarity is reduced rather than enhanced. If you're presuming hetero participants, I can't see that working too well. Indeed, one of the constants I've noted in this forum is the marked lack of attachment Dommes have to their male subs. They are almost always 'things' - never partners.

sunshinemiss -> RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? (4/27/2011 2:46:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NiceGuyNihilist Thank you, and selectivelight; you've given just the sort of considered responses I was hoping for. I find it disturbing that you are grateful for the posts of the 2 people who said yes, in fact that is their viewpoint. This is something akin to a blind spot. I understand that you want a MALE DOM perspective in particular. I can dig that. There are differences in the way men and women differ biological, socially, etc. HOWEVER, that you dismiss the other MALE DOMS who do NOT meet with your own personal agenda tells a lot about what is beneath your question. The following Dominant men did NOT find themselves in the group that looks down upon male submissives: Ron (mnottertail) Rapier Fugue Jeff (leadership527) Dark Steven crazy ML Simply Michael BK (BKSir) Why is their opinion as MEN, as DOMINANTS not worth paying attention to? Because they don't fit with your preconceived notion? Or do you think they are just liars? best, sunshine ETA: or maybe you are just looking for some men to talk down to you.

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