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sunshinemiss -> RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? (4/27/2011 2:42:43 PM)
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Hello NiceGuyNihilist
quote:
sunshinemiss,
You are not wrong to point out that I have selectively responded to the posters who've admitted to holding a certain view, but you are ludicrously wrong in your assessment of my motive.
Perhaps I am wrong, even ludicrously so, about your motive. But I asked about your motive. I did not make an assessment. I noticed your behavior and asked about it. Your words don't ring completely true to me. There is more to what one says - it is just as important what one doesn't say.
quote:
The avowed purpose of this thread, as stated in my OP, is to seek out those Doms who for whatever reason dislike male submission to females, and engage them in a civil dialogue.
In fact here is what you asked:
quote:
When you see a man allowing a woman to rule him, do you find yourself involuntarily shuddering in revulsion? Does the very concept of a submissive male fly against your ideals?
... do you have contempt for submissive males, and if so, why? I won't argue with you, however much I may disagree; for the purposes of this thread, I only want to see your point of view.
Since you did in fact ask a number of closed (yes/no) questions, it follows that you were wanting ALL comers of the dominant male variety to respond, regardless of their stance. That this was not accurate based on your further posts, was what prompted my own response.
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At least consciously, I harbor no presupposition that such a sentiment is widespread--and indeed, my face-to-face interactions with the Doms in my vicinity largely suggests just the opposite. But that's irrelevant. What's relevant is that there are some Doms who are repulsed by male submission, and I want to know what makes them tick.
It's fair to say that there are a whole lot of other people that have that same pov. The part in red is the salient point to me. I deleted the word "subconciously" from my earlier post. Interesting that you are on a similar page.
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Nowhere have I implied that I intend to draw even tentative conclusions about the pervasiveness of such viewpoints in the community at large.
Perhaps. You just happen to only want to hear the viewpoints of those that fit within a tiny niche from a small group of people. Nothing wrong with that. As I pointed out to ML, the question itself has merit. That you want only to hear from dominant men also is certainly understandable. It is the (what I view as) manipulative manner (mind you, I don't think it necessarily shows malicious intent), couched in an intellectual framework that gave me pause. You didn't in fact want to know what you stated you wanted to know.
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As for your suggestion that I am trying to get my rocks off by seeking derogatory comments from male Doms--well, I'd shrug and tell myself not to sweat it because anyone with 14,000 posts on collarchat is bound to have a bit of a jaundiced eye, except that I don't believe anyone who's paid full attention to my words could reasonably draw that conclusion.
You're new here, so you don't know me from borscht. (I'm sweet as 3.14, didn't you know?) Or perhaps you've been in the rafters seeing people interact and you know my words well. Regardless, my number of posts are less the point here than my many years of studying human interactions. We often lie to ourselves - I've written about this on occasion. You stated in your OP that you would not argue. And yet you have. Did you think that I did not notice that when I suggested you were possibly looking to be humiliated? Hmm? When I realized there was more here than you merely seeking a "fruitfal dialogue"? Again, I noticed.
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Did you read my post in response to 'awareness'? If you did, you should have noticed that I immediately offered a thoughtful challenge to his argument. That in itself does not prove that I am seeking a fruitful dialogue rather than a fruitful wank session, but I think it should have at least persuaded you to refrain from accusing me of being disingenuous until the thread had progressed a bit further.
It did nothing of the kind. One could view it as.... poking a stick at a bear who will then take another swipe at you. And you enjoy the thrill of the swipe. Do I think that is what you are doing? I don't know. You see, our motives are often hidden even to ourselves.
What I do know is that you have asked a number of questions - albeit interesting ones - and then proceeded to ignore the viewpoints of those who disagree with your narrow, unstated PRE-supposition. You have also done the thing you said you wouldn't - you have argued. While you may or may not be looking for wank fodder, not a negative in and of itself, there is to my eye clearly an underlying motivation that you've not in fact acknowledged. Do I believe I know what that is? No.
What I do care about, what I find intriguing, is the fact that there is an underlying motivation and that you are doing your darnedest to ignore it. That, the iceberg under the water, is what trips my personal trigger.
best,
sunshine
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