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Where have all the miracles gone ? - 4/30/2011 3:06:53 AM   
Aneirin


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From: Tamaris
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God turned the water in Egypt to Blood, he swarmed the nation with frogs,flies and locust and every first born male died at the hand of god. He threw down fire to burn an animal sacrifice that was offered to him, turned a stick into a snake and destroyed the walls of Jericho. He obliterated sodom and Gomorrah and split the red sea in two. Jesus walked on water and replicated food, healed the sick and raised others from the dead.

All miracles from the past if one observes the religious books, but why the past and not now, why is all this from a time that could not be empiracly examined, did they actually occur, or were they reported on at a later date ?

Some authorities say god works in different ways now, he tends towards the subtle as opposed to the magnificent, in that case why, has he learned to do otherwise and why again did he choose to attempt to influence in a different way, what has changed ?

Now as humanity has progressed to the point where one person or a small group of like minded persons can initiate the destruction of all life on earth, why is God not making his presence felt more forcibly, for surely destruction of all life on earth is his concern or is it true God gave the planet to the humans to do with as they wish ?

But going back to those biblical times when the population of the planet was far less than it is now and education was not as widespread perhaps people could be swayed by the magnificent miracles, but why choose to perform for a minority of the ignorant rather than the majority of the educated, what is the problem, what is he afraid of ?

Why such an interest in the people of planet Earth in the ancient past, but seemingly not so now and I say that because of what we know of the natural occurances that wipe out millions of people indiscriminantly saint and sinner in one go, the tsunamis and earth quakes of recent times, events which in the ancient past undoubtedly would have been attributed to the hand of god and those killed be labelled as some sort of evil God wished to destroy or make an example of ?

Where have all the miracles gone ?

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Where have all the miracles gone ? - 4/30/2011 3:15:36 AM   
tazzygirl


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Another thread to slam religion.



_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Aneirin)
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RE: Where have all the miracles gone ? - 4/30/2011 4:39:17 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Another thread to slam religion.



For someone who has repeatedly claimed to be spiritual and not religious you sure seem to get awfully upset when anyone questions
anything religious.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
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RE: Where have all the miracles gone ? - 4/30/2011 5:23:45 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Another thread to slam religion.



For someone who has repeatedly claimed to be spiritual and not religious you sure seem to get awfully upset when anyone questions
anything religious.



I am not black, but I get really angry when I see racists slamming them. Does this mean I should stop and just ignore them?


_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert


This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


(in reply to rulemylife)
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RE: Where have all the miracles gone ? - 4/30/2011 5:26:26 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Another thread to slam religion.



For someone who has repeatedly claimed to be spiritual and not religious you sure seem to get awfully upset when anyone questions
anything religious.



I am not black, but I get really angry when I see racists slamming them. Does this mean I should stop and just ignore them?



It's not an appropriate comparison.

Being black is not a choice.  Choosing to follow a religion is.

(in reply to thishereboi)
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RE: Where have all the miracles gone ? - 4/30/2011 5:33:26 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Another thread to slam religion.



For someone who has repeatedly claimed to be spiritual and not religious you sure seem to get awfully upset when anyone questions
anything religious.



I am not black, but I get really angry when I see racists slamming them. Does this mean I should stop and just ignore them?



It's not an appropriate comparison.

Being black is not a choice.  Choosing to follow a religion is.



So sorry. Ok then, I don't wear a burka on my head, but I get really angry when I see bigots doing it. Does this mean I should ignore them when they shout insults at the women who do?


_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert


This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Where have all the miracles gone ? - 4/30/2011 5:50:23 AM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Another thread to slam religion.




Why is it ?

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Where have all the miracles gone ? - 4/30/2011 5:51:13 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Another thread to slam religion.




Why is it ?


Well you started the thread. Why don't you explain why?


_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert


This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


(in reply to Aneirin)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Where have all the miracles gone ? - 4/30/2011 5:54:21 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
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From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin
Where have all the miracles gone ?

There never were any miracles.

(in reply to Aneirin)
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RE: Where have all the miracles gone ? - 4/30/2011 5:54:42 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Another thread to slam religion.



For someone who has repeatedly claimed to be spiritual and not religious you sure seem to get awfully upset when anyone questions
anything religious.



Ah so now you know whem im upset... lol... good to know you are that all-knowing.

And why shouldnt we get put out if someone is belittled or rediculed for what they believe? Would you like it if you were treated that way because you believe ______... fill in the blank as you go along.

I dont have to like what someone believes, but as long as it doesnt have the potential to affect me or mine, I will support your right to believe as you wish.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Where have all the miracles gone ? - 4/30/2011 5:57:32 AM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline
It was meant to be a valid question inviting intellectual conversation on the subject, not a religion slamming thread as Tazzy puts it. But if that is what some see, my wish to slam religion, then those people are entitled to your their own thoughts, but I assure you, to slam religion was not the intention.

If it offends, then please exercise your right to ignore, pass on by and leave the discussion to those who are genuinely interested.

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to thishereboi)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Where have all the miracles gone ? - 4/30/2011 6:10:44 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Another thread to slam religion.



For someone who has repeatedly claimed to be spiritual and not religious you sure seem to get awfully upset when anyone questions
anything religious.



Ah so now you know whem im upset... lol... good to know you are that all-knowing.

And why shouldnt we get put out if someone is belittled or rediculed for what they believe? Would you like it if you were treated that way because you believe ______... fill in the blank as you go along.

I dont have to like what someone believes, but as long as it doesnt have the potential to affect me or mine, I will support your right to believe as you wish.


Except that you don't.

You tirelessly attack any agnostic or atheist viewpoints, then try to claim neutrality.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Where have all the miracles gone ? - 4/30/2011 6:10:58 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
So its your contention that I am to just ignore another thread with the aim to belittle others yet again? I would not more ignore this thread than I would a thread started to question the belief that a woman is raped because of what she wears.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Aneirin)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Where have all the miracles gone ? - 4/30/2011 6:13:31 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Except that you don't.

You tirelessly attack any agnostic or atheist viewpoints, then try to claim neutrality.


And yet there is a thread here asking for an atheist point of view on atheist chaplains. I happen to agree with the need for such, and, as a result, have not posted one word against the issue.

But that "tirelessly attacking" can also be seen as constantly questioning the belief of others when those who question have admitted their utter contempt for that belief.

I wasnt aware you supported bigotry.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Where have all the miracles gone ? - 4/30/2011 6:15:10 AM   
areallivehuman


Posts: 277
Joined: 1/16/2010
Status: offline
Perhaps God washed his hands of the human race after the crucifixion, and left us to our own devices. Waiting for a miracle? Be your own miracle.

(in reply to Aneirin)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Where have all the miracles gone ? - 4/30/2011 6:19:53 AM   
noreleaseever


Posts: 14
Joined: 2/28/2010
Status: offline
But some women ARE raped because of what they wear.

This does not mean that the rapists are justified in what they do or that I condone rape in any shape or form, but facts are facts. Some sickos will rape someone if they are dressed in a way that hits their buttons.

As for religion, all the miracles mentioned by the OP are pretty horrible things, and so consistent with a so-called god who had his son die for our sins, when he could have, for instance made a rainbow for our sins. If god is so powerful he did not need to do this. If he were a man he would have been put in jail for what he did to Jesus.

Finally for this rant, if Jesus died for our sins, are we not under an obligation to sin as much as possible in order that he did not die in vain...


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

So its your contention that I am to just ignore another thread with the aim to belittle others yet again? I would not more ignore this thread than I would a thread started to question the belief that a woman is raped because of what she wears.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Where have all the miracles gone ? - 4/30/2011 6:26:47 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

But some women ARE raped because of what they wear.


Bullshit. Rape is an act of violence and anger, not sex. I heard it once said that a woman should be able to walk through a crown of men, naked, and emerge untouched. The idea that a miniskirt causes a rape is preposterous. What you are advocating is that women should wear a burka because men cannot control their sexual urges. Are men that weak? I dont believe that.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to noreleaseever)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Where have all the miracles gone ? - 4/30/2011 6:28:27 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
Now, back to the OP.

quote:

God turned the water in Egypt to Blood, he swarmed the nation with frogs,flies and locust and every first born male died at the hand of god. He threw down fire to burn an animal sacrifice that was offered to him, turned a stick into a snake and destroyed the walls of Jericho. He obliterated sodom and Gomorrah and split the red sea in two. Jesus walked on water and replicated food, healed the sick and raised others from the dead.


Water to blood... logical potential explanations...

(plague 1—water turned into blood, fish died)
The redness in the Nile could have actually been pollution caused by volcanic activity, specifically that of Santorini, which erupted around 1500 B.C. and whose ash is found in the Nile region. The silt could make the Nile turn blood red, and would also render it undrinkable. Heavy rains in the red-soiled area of Lake Victoria could have caused reddened water to wash downstream.
Alternatively, a red toxic algal bloom (red tide) could have produced large quantities of toxins that would kill fish.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plagues_of_Egypt

Tell me, who at that time would have known about algea, pollution, the effects of a volcano? Yet, when people were demanding answers, someone had to come up with some.

The rest are written, along with potential scientific explanations, of the plagues in the above link. I dont consider any of those "miracles"

Want a miracle? The discovery of pennicillin.

The discovery of penicillin is attributed to Scottish scientist and Nobel laureate Alexander Fleming in 1928.[15] He showed that, if Penicillium notatum were grown in the appropriate substrate, it would exude a substance with antibiotic properties, which he dubbed penicillin. This serendipitous observation began the modern era of antibiotic discovery. The development of penicillin for use as a medicine is attributed to the Australian Nobel laureate Howard Walter Florey together with the German Nobel laureate Ernst Chain and the English biochemist Norman Heatley.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penicillin#Discovery

But using the "miracles" in such a way as to extol the virtues of science while backslapping the belief of religion... everything begins as just a belief. Science just takes it further to explore and explain that belief. Sometimes with a good ending, sometimes not.

An unexpected observation... something that had been in use since the Middle Ages without knowing the mechanics behind its use.

quote:

But going back to those biblical times when the population of the planet was far less than it is now and education was not as widespread perhaps people could be swayed by the magnificent miracles, but why choose to perform for a minority of the ignorant rather than the majority of the educated, what is the problem, what is he afraid of ?


What is who afraid of? Is it fear? Or is it a lack of understanding that the whole society had? How would you go back in time and explain to a biblical era person the ability to replace an organ? eyes? revive a drowning vitctim for that matter? They would consider those things miracles. We would consider them everyday occurances.

quote:

Now as humanity has progressed to the point where one person or a small group of like minded persons can initiate the destruction of all life on earth, why is God not making his presence felt more forcibly, for surely destruction of all life on earth is his concern or is it true God gave the planet to the humans to do with as they wish ?


quote:

Why such an interest in the people of planet Earth in the ancient past, but seemingly not so now and I say that because of what we know of the natural occurances that wipe out millions of people indiscriminantly saint and sinner in one go, the tsunamis and earth quakes of recent times, events which in the ancient past undoubtedly would have been attributed to the hand of god and those killed be labelled as some sort of evil God wished to destroy or make an example of ?


I will repeat, the Bible is a beautifully written story. Some people take it literally. The majority do not. Even nonreligious people believe some of the Bible is accurate... and it is, to a point. Science has explained much... and I believe it will eventually explain everything. As for miracles, they are now worked through science, at least that is my belief.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Aneirin)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Where have all the miracles gone ? - 4/30/2011 6:29:25 AM   
noreleaseever


Posts: 14
Joined: 2/28/2010
Status: offline
I'm not advocating anything, and I agree with you 100%. All I am saying is that some sickos will rape based on a woman's appearance/dress. If being dressed as a nun hits the right spot with him, he will rape a nun, but no-one can say a nun is dressed provocatively.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

But some women ARE raped because of what they wear.


Bullshit. Rape is an act of violence and anger, not sex. I heard it once said that a woman should be able to walk through a crown of men, naked, and emerge untouched. The idea that a miniskirt causes a rape is preposterous. What you are advocating is that women should wear a burka because men cannot control their sexual urges. Are men that weak? I dont believe that.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Where have all the miracles gone ? - 4/30/2011 6:30:13 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

So sorry. Ok then, I don't wear a burka on my head, but I get really angry when I see bigots doing it. Does this mean I should ignore them when they shout insults at the women who do?



You get really angry when you see bigots wearing burkas?

By the way, you do know that a burka is a full body covering?  Not just for the head.

(in reply to thishereboi)
Profile   Post #: 20
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