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RE: Male vs. Female Dominance (My 1st thread) - 5/28/2011 2:49:26 PM

mssaharaheve

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

quote:

ORIGINAL: mummyman321

That's why the captain of the football team has a harem of girls wanting to date him. The geeky scientist, head of the chess club, does not have that harem of girls. I am greatly generalizing but you get the point.

Thank heavens for that, I always found the jocks full of themselves, in general (with few exceptions) really really boring because all they want is to be admired and think women are their "due", the geeky guys tend to be the ones who you can have great conversations with, a fun time and they do their best to please a girl, because they don't think girls are their dues... I always preferred brains over brans...

Agreed. My girlfriends and I always considered geeks far more impressive than jocks. Geeks embody a sexy and powerful combination of elements: humbleness and intelligence. We felt the silly chest-thumping jocks were boring and highly over-rated.

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RE: Male vs. Female Dominance (My 1st thread) - 5/28/2011 2:55:38 PM

HeatherMcLeather

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quote:

I'm wondering if you are seeing things this way because many men don't articulate feelings, but can easily articulate actions.

That's a real possibility, maybe even a probability. And it points again, I think, to social conditioning.

Again using these boards as an imperfect example, those men who do freely discuss their feelings and emotions tend to be non-conformists in all aspects of their lives (or at least what we see of it from here). ResidentSadist, RedMagic1, FukinTroll and Arpig come quickly to mind.as examples of what I mean (sorry if I've left anybody out who thinks they should have been included). They seem to be free thinkers and have unconventional takes on most topics. So I'm thinking it may well be a socialization thing.

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RE: Male vs. Female Dominance (My 1st thread) - 5/28/2011 2:58:02 PM

RedMagic1

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I agree with you 100% LadyC. I prefer in some ways to corrupt the vanilla, as they have fewer preconceptions about being sub or dom. A factor I have not seen mentioned yet is how the Bdsm scene and community socialize people to expect sexuality to fit into neat packages. Despite all the lip service paid to "everyone is unique" I think only the truly new and truly experienced understand that. Everyone in the middle has strong preconceptions when someone states "i am dominant" or "i am a sub."

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RE: Male vs. Female Dominance (My 1st thread) - 5/28/2011 3:03:46 PM

LadyConstanze

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I dunno, I don't think I'm new and I don't think I'm "truly experienced" but yes, it's basically not different from every other group, you have to fit into boxes and labels. Always amazes me how fringe groups can be actually be even more intolerant within themselves than possibly the outside world can be, who tends to label us all as pervs or that there must be something wrong with us.

Maybe I'm a bit nuts, but as long as it's consensual and both parties have the mental capacity and understanding to truly consent, I'm so not bothered, even if it's not my cup of tea, I might not like it, in some cases I might prefer to not even hear or think about it (after all I do have a delicate tummy) but essentially it's up to them, none of my freaking business and why should I get upset about it?

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RE: Male vs. Female Dominance (My 1st thread) - 5/28/2011 3:05:14 PM

ChatteParfaitt

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

Can you successfully switch with the same person? Many women cannot. They have a person in their life who is a dom, and another who is a sub. I have certainly met women who are "just kinky, let's do it all," but they seem to be very much in the minority.

I have never successfully switched with the same person. I think I could do that with the dominant person I am with now, he's just not interested. He also, BTW, has the typical male dominant's aversion to anything other than a finger or a tongue up his ass. (I'm sure he will appreciate that I am letting the entire universe know this).

Again, I think you must harken back to core motivation. Despite the fact that the male g-spot is up his ass, most male dominants feel being fucked in the ass is a submissive act and find it abhorrent. It's the physical act itself that is repulsive to him, despite what pleasure he may receive.

And although quite naturally there is a mental element to how most male doms dominant, femdoms do IMO have a deeper understanding of the mental and emotional foundation that needs to be laid prior to expecting someone's full submission. Not expecting obedience, mind you, submission.

Is this true of all fem dommes? Of course not, we are all of us a combination of dominant and submissive, of male and female. It's been my experience that the older I get, the more I can embrace all sides of myself.

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RE: Male vs. Female Dominance (My 1st thread) - 5/28/2011 3:15:38 PM

LordOdhinn

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

(I'm sure he will appreciate that I am letting the entire universe know this).

Um...thanks for sharing that detail with everyone...now,where did I put that damned crop??????????

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RE: Male vs. Female Dominance (My 1st thread) - 5/28/2011 3:17:16 PM

LadyConstanze

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LordOdhinn

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

(I'm sure he will appreciate that I am letting the entire universe know this).

Um...thanks for sharing that detail with everyone...now,where did I put that damned crop??????????

Ha ha ha, at least she didn't out you, you did that yourself... And yes, I am keeping fingers and strapon to myself

Maybe a fist? I have very small hands....

Edited for spelling as I was laughing so much

< Message edited by LadyConstanze -- 5/28/2011 3:19:02 PM >

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RE: Male vs. Female Dominance (My 1st thread) - 5/28/2011 3:21:24 PM

LordOdhinn

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

quote:

ORIGINAL: LordOdhinn

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

(I'm sure he will appreciate that I am letting the entire universe know this).

Um...thanks for sharing that detail with everyone...now,where did I put that damned crop??????????

Ha ha ha, at least she didn't out you, you did that yourself... And yes, I am keeping fingers and strapon to myself

Maybe a fist? I have very small hands....

Edited for spelling as I was laughing so much

ROTFL

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RE: Male vs. Female Dominance (My 1st thread) - 5/28/2011 3:25:05 PM

DesFIP

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I'm not sure it's as cut and dried as the op thinks. But perhaps there's a difference between the way lesbians relate to each other and the way straight women relate to a male dominant?

Intellectually I know that there shouldn't be any difference except motivation. Emotionally I don't feel that way. Hell lots of us don't. We've had the discussion of whether you could top your dominant at his command and several of us said we can't, and we couldn't even view them as dominant if we knew they had ever bottomed.

Now bottoming has nothing intrinsic to do with submission or dominance, it's just a desire for strong sensation. I do know that, intellectually. Emotionally I would be squicked if he suddenly revealed he was once a pain slut. I think I'm safe though, by now we've discussed every damn topic that could come up in relation to our sex/kink desires.

Truthfully, I don't even enjoy being on top during sex. The few times I've had to, he's usually restrained me and picked me up and placed me there because without that forceplay, I won't be able to relax and enjoy it, forget about being able to orgasm.

The main difference I see is that I can see there's a divide that shouldn't be there, but knowing doesn't eliminate it.

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RE: Male vs. Female Dominance (My 1st thread) - 5/28/2011 3:41:22 PM

LadyConstanze

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

I'm not sure it's as cut and dried as the op thinks. But perhaps there's a difference between the way lesbians relate to each other and the way straight women relate to a male dominant?

Intellectually I know that there shouldn't be any difference except motivation. Emotionally I don't feel that way. Hell lots of us don't. We've had the discussion of whether you could top your dominant at his command and several of us said we can't, and we couldn't even view them as dominant if we knew they had ever bottomed.

Now bottoming has nothing intrinsic to do with submission or dominance, it's just a desire for strong sensation. I do know that, intellectually. Emotionally I would be squicked if he suddenly revealed he was once a pain slut. I think I'm safe though, by now we've discussed every damn topic that could come up in relation to our sex/kink desires.

Truthfully, I don't even enjoy being on top during sex. The few times I've had to, he's usually restrained me and picked me up and placed me there because without that forceplay, I won't be able to relax and enjoy it, forget about being able to orgasm.

The main difference I see is that I can see there's a divide that shouldn't be there, but knowing doesn't eliminate it.

I understand that feelings are not rational and you feel as you do, but consider something else, for example I try most things out on myself, I find it only responsible to know what I inflict, does that make me less dominant or would you be less worried and would find it easier to let go because you know somebody makes sure that you might be uncomfy, possibly even in pain but not at risk...

Now I'm an adrenalin junkie, I like fast sports and I crave the sensation of sore muscles, it feels good to have sore muscles after a work out, just like after good sex you do feel like well, you've run a marathon or had quite a workout at the gym, I don't mind the odd bruise or scratch, though I won't ever permit anybody to hit me. Seriously, if the rest of my sex-life would be treated like a raw egg or a fragile doll, I might as well give up having sex and become a nun, it would bore me to death.

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RE: Male vs. Female Dominance (My 1st thread) - 5/28/2011 3:44:24 PM

BitaTruble

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather

Now, based on the posts on these boards, the majority of the proponents of the “Action” style seem to be men. My question is why do you think this is?

If I had to guess (and that's all I can do here ..)

I think that women enjoy their stillness and are less likely to interupt it with actions. Looking at the area of hobbies; 75% of all fishers are men. Fishing is, supposedly, relaxing as a hobby yet your stillness is going to be interrupted by a strike and men much more often than women pre-choose the interuption ... the call to action is to either let the fish win or haul that sucker in. Men hate letting the fish win so even when they relax, they are busy competiting for the win.

Women, on the other hand; 70% of the population who practice yoga are female. In yoga, your stillness does not get interrupted nor do you want it to be. Woman want their stillness to actually be still and they don't care as much if the fish wins because, well, it's just a silly fish.

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RE: Male vs. Female Dominance (My 1st thread) - 5/28/2011 4:07:35 PM

MasterSlaveLA

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather

The answers suggested so far have basically been as follows:

1. They are HNGs. This sounds like some one-true-way talk to me. You don’t agree with them so they must be HNGs?

Respectfully, you've taken the "HNG" comment out of context. It was in response to your premise that, "...male dominance is physically based and female dominance is mentally based" -- not with regard to if certain acts are inherently dominant or submissive.

Now, as to the question of if certain acts would be considered dominant or submissive, the answer is the as it always is... it depends on the individuals. People have their preferences and leanings... so it's just as much "one true way" thinking to view no acts as dominant or submissive, as it is to view certain acts as dominant or submissive.

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RE: Male vs. Female Dominance (My 1st thread) - 5/28/2011 4:15:52 PM

FelineFae

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Back in the times of the ancient Greeks, then Romans, there were well known social protocol as to what was a sexual act of domination, and those of submission.
Perhaps traces of those old codes still linger in the shadows ?

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RE: Male vs. Female Dominance (My 1st thread) - 5/28/2011 4:29:44 PM

LadyConstanze

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather

Now, based on the posts on these boards, the majority of the proponents of the “Action” style seem to be men. My question is why do you think this is?

If I had to guess (and that's all I can do here ..)

I think that women enjoy their stillness and are less likely to interupt it with actions. Looking at the area of hobbies; 75% of all fishers are men. Fishing is, supposedly, relaxing as a hobby yet your stillness is going to be interrupted by a strike and men much more often than women pre-choose the interuption ... the call to action is to either let the fish win or haul that sucker in. Men hate letting the fish win so even when they relax, they are busy competiting for the win.

Women, on the other hand; 70% of the population who practice yoga are female. In yoga, your stillness does not get interrupted nor do you want it to be. Woman want their stillness to actually be still and they don't care as much if the fish wins because, well, it's just a silly fish.

Yoga shapes my body, helps my health, my overall well-being and improves my muscle tone, makes me more flexible, to think yoga is just stillness and not exhausting at all, it suggests to me that you might never have tried yoga, it's not about being still, it's about mastering your own body versus catching a fish...

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RE: Male vs. Female Dominance (My 1st thread) - 5/28/2011 5:05:36 PM

SylvereApLeanan

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather

I'm not sure I see how social conditioning would affect it, I hope you elaborate on that idea.

I’m going to modify my response slightly. I think there is a biological component to the differences between male and female dominance, but I don’t think it has anything to do with men being more visual. I read an article awhile back that examined some interesting neurological differences in men and women that probably play a role in why a significant number of men view certain sexual acts as submissive while women are more concerned with motivation. I also think social conditioning plays a significant role by reinforcing these biological differences.

I do not claim to be an expert in neuroscience, by any means, and I am well aware that there are greater differences between individuals within a group than between groups. As a result, my POV is a work in progress and subject to change as I receive and process further information. Movin’ on…

Regardless of age, females routinely perform better than males on tests that require recognition of emotion and relationships between people. This difference appears in infancy and increases with age. MRI scans of male and female brains show that an area of the frontal cortex called the straight gyrus is proportionally larger in adult females than in adult males. This area plays a significant role in social cognition and individuals who have a larger SG demonstrate higher social awareness.

In addition, little girls are socialized to play cooperatively, which emphasizes social relationships, while boys are socialized to compete and establish a hierarchy. So females are already biologically inclined to perceive and react to other people's motivations and further socialization reinforces this. On the other hand, males are less inclined to notice or react to motivation and their social conditioning reinforces the delineation between those who are dominant or submissive within the social hierarchy. When both enter the world of kink, they bring their biology and socialization with them.

In the world of kink, acts of service are often perceived as submissive and sexual service is no exception. For the sake of this discussion, I'll define sexual service as providing pleasure for another without simultaneous reciprocation (e.g. performing oral sex outside of a 69 position). For a number of men, sexual service = submission; full stop. On the other hand, women are more inclined to recognize the motivation driving an act and use that to interpret who is in the dominant or submissive position.

I suppose this leads to questioning why service = submission and what cultural contexts have established and perpetuate this attitude. However, those issues are best left for another thread.

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RE: Male vs. Female Dominance (My 1st thread) - 5/28/2011 5:24:01 PM

BitaTruble

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

Yoga shapes my body, helps my health, my overall well-being and improves my muscle tone, makes me more flexible, to think yoga is just stillness and not exhausting at all, it suggests to me that you might never have tried yoga, it's not about being still, it's about mastering your own body versus catching a fish...

I did not use the word just and there is more than one way to practice yoga. I have found stillness in yoga. You have found something else. We are both richer for it, yes? As I said in my post, it was just a guess to answer the question as best I could.

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RE: Male vs. Female Dominance (My 1st thread) - 5/28/2011 5:45:18 PM

PeonForHer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SylvereApLeananRegardless of age, females routinely perform better than males on tests that require recognition of emotion and relationships between people.

My little addition: some bit of research that showed a marked preference amongst baby boys for hanging mobiles over (static) pictures of faces; while it was the reverse for baby girls. (Funny what bits of evidence stick in the head.)

But, like you, I'm extremely unlikely ever to drop entirely on the side of either nature or nurture on this.)

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RE: Male vs. Female Dominance (My 1st thread) - 5/28/2011 5:54:04 PM

littlewonder

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather

quote:

I admit for me certain acts and positions are submissive. Others are dominant. Being taken doggie style is submissive. Him on top is dominant. It may seem stupid to some but for me that's just how it is.
littlewonder I'm so glad you replied. It's nice to get a perspective that goes utterly counter to my basic ideas. I had it in mind that submissives, and especially female submissives would be of a very different mind set.

Please, if you don't mind, since you're the only one so far to advocate the "Action" style, would you elaborate a little as to why you find certain positions and such to be dominant or submissive.

Probably has something to do with the culture in which I was raised and what we see in nature. I was raised in a way where man is head of the household, a woman is submissive to her husband and within that culuture a woman and a man does and acts in a certain ways to denote their position.

In nature it's usually the male who is the dominant of the species. The male ruts from the back pin down the female, the male is usually the larger of the sexes, more prominent in most ways.

Sure you'll have others who will argue that in nature the male is not always the dominant and doesn't always initiate sexually, etc...but in the majority of nature the male is the dominant sex.

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RE: Male vs. Female Dominance (My 1st thread) - 5/28/2011 6:10:53 PM

DesFIP

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze
I understand that feelings are not rational and you feel as you do, but consider something else, for example I try most things out on myself, I find it only responsible to know what I inflict, does that make me less dominant or would you be less worried and would find it easier to let go because you know somebody makes sure that you might be uncomfy, possibly even in pain but not at risk...

Now I'm an adrenalin junkie, I like fast sports and I crave the sensation of sore muscles, it feels good to have sore muscles after a work out, just like after good sex you do feel like well, you've run a marathon or had quite a workout at the gym, I don't mind the odd bruise or scratch, though I won't ever permit anybody to hit me. Seriously, if the rest of my sex-life would be treated like a raw egg or a fragile doll, I might as well give up having sex and become a nun, it would bore me to death.

No problem with either of those. Although I'm not really sure what trying something out on yourself does. The Man has a higher pain tolerance than I do, so as long as it isn't something that might break skin, all he knows is that it's stingy or thuddy, but knowing that it doesn't hurt him that much doesn't give him any info on my reaction.

And yes, if you can't unleash your energy during sex, digging hands and nails in, why bother to have it.

I did say that I know I shouldn't feel this way, but I still do.

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RE: Male vs. Female Dominance (My 1st thread) - 5/28/2011 6:57:44 PM

HeatherMcLeather

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quote:

Back in the times of the ancient Greeks, then Romans, there were well known social protocol as to what was a sexual act of domination, and those of submission.
Perhaps traces of those old codes still linger in the shadows ?

Now that is an interesting idea! I'll have to do some research into that, its a very real possibility that those concepts have been carried over to modern times. Thanks for the suggestion.

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