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Prenups - 9/23/2011 9:26:03 AM

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This came up in another thread. What are people's feelings on this? Personally, I wouldn't dream of getting married without one.

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RE: Prenups - 9/23/2011 9:33:48 AM

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I have never signed one in the two marriages I had. I would think a prenup is used to protect personal assets. So if you have assets you do not wish to share, then the prenup might be important. As with my marriages, we were young and had little in the way of assets so there was no reason to have one.

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RE: Prenups - 9/23/2011 9:34:20 AM

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if I had anything worth being concerned about, I'd probably get one. Maybe I should... for the cats.. stating that since I was their human before any involvement I may have inadvertently gotten into with a human partner, THEY GET ME should that involvement end!!

(and I am only being about 75%.. ok, maybe 60% facetious, here...)

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RE: Prenups - 9/23/2011 9:37:12 AM

Arpig

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Seeing as how they are not actually enforceable and can be set aside by the judge....what's the point?

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RE: Prenups - 9/23/2011 9:39:35 AM

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I'll repeat what I said on the other thread:

Regarding pre-nups, I didn't wish for this afterwards but our middle-class income and lack of children from previous marriages didn't warrant anything other than the court-ordered 50:50 split. (We also agreed that we would each assume our own credit card debt, 401k plans, and vehicles.)

OP - You said you are a divorce attorney and many of your clients wish they'd made a pre-nup. Are they higher income? Children from a previous marriage?

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RE: Prenups - 9/23/2011 9:44:01 AM

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I would never want one nor require one.

I wouldn't marry someone I can't trust.

To me a prenup says "I'm jaded from past relationships and I'm now going to carry that over and put all of it on you".

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RE: Prenups - 9/23/2011 9:49:11 AM

tj444

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

This came up in another thread. What are people's feelings on this? Personally, I wouldn't dream of getting married without one.

even if you live with someone you should have the legal equivalent of a prenup, imo.

Whether married or not, if you have one then at least it shows agreement. If they hold up or not depends on where a person lives, changes that have happened since and various other factors (like having independent counsel at the time)...

If one has a prenup (and it was a fair one at the time) and the marriage/relationship ends, and then one party attempts to challenge it, just goes to prove you really needed it in the first place and that person was not as they represented themselves.

JMO

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RE: Prenups - 9/23/2011 9:57:22 AM

tj444

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

if I had anything worth being concerned about, I'd probably get one. Maybe I should... for the cats.. stating that since I was their human before any involvement I may have inadvertently gotten into with a human partner, THEY GET ME should that involvement end!!

(and I am only being about 75%.. ok, maybe 60% facetious, here...)

lol TC was my ex's cat but i took care of him and had become very attached, imo he was mine, mine, MINE!..

but my ex used to threaten me that if we split up that the cat would come with him... Now i didnt know if he was serious or not however i felt i was the better caregiver/servant of the two of us and the fact that it was possible for my ex to take him was a tad disconcerting to me.. Both TC & Squeek died before I did leave tho..

Imo, an agreement on pets is quite warranted (as silly as it might sound to some).. There are couples that fight over pet custody just as hard and nasty as other couples do over kids..

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RE: Prenups - 9/23/2011 10:00:27 AM

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I waited until our dog died before I moved out...

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RE: Prenups - 9/23/2011 10:12:08 AM

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If anything was to happen to cause me to remarry (when hell freezes over) I would absolutely insist on a prenup.

That being said, both times I have married there was no prenup. Neither of us owned a god damned thing. Poor as paupers.

Anyone that owns ANYTHING they wish to protect, or has children from a previous they need to protect......absolutely should have one.

It has nothing at all to do with trust. It has nothing at all to do with bad juju or setting a relationship up to fail. It is ALL ABOUT being RESPONSIBLE. Anyone that says any romantic "oh my god, I would never agree to a pre-nup because it's sooooooo........(whatever......" is a bitch that I would fucking run from. That right there tells me they WANT to set a person up in a relationship they will take advantage of every chance they get.

Edited to add........The odds of a person owning, being worth more, than I.....is really pretty huge. It hasn't anything to do with lack of trust, greed, anything petty or material. In a marriage, I want an equality of 'being in that marriage'.

I would never want anyone to be with me, because the fear of ending it and what that might do to them, is bigger. I want a person to be with me, because they want to. Not because they have more to lose materially by leaving.

A pre-nup frees up the parties to focus on wanting to be in the relationship. It eliminates a lot of that whole mindset of "Now I've got them!" Especially if you do not have children together. You don't get as lazy about the relationship and keeping it flourishing.

Those that get so emotionally freaked at the idea of one strike me as insecure and wanting to feel like they've caught them and now have them locked in their trap. They seem to want to get lazy about the relationship.

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 9/23/2011 10:24:22 AM >

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RE: Prenups - 9/23/2011 10:22:28 AM

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I'd get one.

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RE: Prenups - 9/23/2011 10:25:31 AM

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I guess I could see not getting one if you are in your 20s, no assets, really nothing to worry about. But for second marriages where there are kids from a previous marriage, or once you have assets and substantial income, or even for young people where one of the parties has family money, I can't imagine not having one. Otherwise the State gets to choose how your property etc., is divided in the event a marriage fails. Who wants some idiot family law judge determining your financial and personal future? Not me, for sure. Plus, it costs about a grand to get a prenup done. A nice, juicy divorce with lots of fighting, on the other hand, will send a good lawyer's kids to college. Think about it.

I find it kind of ironic that more than once I have read on these threads about some man bitching because "he lost everything in the divorce." I also have friends who have been stay at home moms who are now sweating bullets because they don't know how they will support themselves after their divorce. All I can think is, shoulda had a prenup! But then, they probably didn't want to "set their marriages up for failure." LOL.

I actually had a client call me this week THANKING me for INSISTING he get a post nup (they had already gotten married when I twisted his arm). I will admit that for 20 year marriage I did not have one, although since both of us had pretty good incomes and it was an extremely amicable divorce, it worked out anyway. Still, I am planning on marrying again some day, and I will absolutely insist on a prenup. If my fiance doesn't like it, well, I guess that is what you call an irreconcilable difference. Part of my reasoning is that having a prenup makes children from previous marriages much more accepting of the new spouse.

< Message edited by Iamsemisweet -- 9/23/2011 10:26:32 AM >

_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

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RE: Prenups - 9/23/2011 10:40:12 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

I wouldn't marry someone I can't trust.

To me a prenup says "I'm jaded from past relationships and I'm now going to carry that over and put all of it on you".

Pretty much sums it up for me. If you have trust issues with the person, why get married in the first place? To me, if you don't feel you can completely trust the other person will all you have or own, then you shouldn't be considering a marriage.

Personally, I would feel insulted if a girl asked for one. That would show me she didn't really know me and definitely didn't trust me. I think at that point I would seriously have to take stock of the relationship.

Mentality is paramount in everything in our lives. The right outlook and state of mind can do wonders. If you start something with a skewered outlook you're results are going to be skewered. As I said in the other thread.

I think starting with those kinds of trust issues sets it up for failure. Someone wrote in the last thread that it is insurance. Much like health insurance. Just because you get health insurance doesn't mean you will get sick. That's true. You get health insurance in case you get sick. Same for a prenup. You get it in case you get a divorce, which tells me you have divorce on your mind before you've even been married.

No wonder so many marriages end in divorce today. And to all of you who have been taken to the cleaners or taken advantage of, I am truly sorry. I know people, especially once fooled, have a tendency to be suspicious and guarded.

My whole point is if you feel that way about someone, why consider a marriage? I certainly don't want to feel I have to guard myself or protect myself from the one person in the world I'm supposed to be closest to.

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RE: Prenups - 9/23/2011 10:42:46 AM

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just out of curiosity.. when was teh first, attorney drawn pre-nup done?

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RE: Prenups - 9/23/2011 10:45:31 AM

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I just think that if I trust him completely with my life...I mean really...I have zero hesitations with him. If he told me to jump off a bridge I would because I would know that there was a very good reason for it or there's something below to cushion my fall. I can't imagine that if I trust him that deeply with my life, why would I not trust him with my finances and children? It just wouldn't make any sense to me.

< Message edited by littlewonder -- 9/23/2011 10:46:29 AM >

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RE: Prenups - 9/23/2011 10:46:48 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet
All I can think is, shoulda had a prenup! But then, they probably didn't want to "set their marriages up for failure." LOL.

I actually had a client call me this week THANKING me for INSISTING he get a post nup (they had already gotten married when I twisted his arm).

I understand the point you are trying to make, but still, your entire post treats marriage as something that is eventually doomed to fail and that's the point of a prenup. Kind of a grim outlook.

I just mentioned skewered mentality too...

I wonder why your client is thanking you? Obviously his prenup is doing nothing for him right now. Does he plan on getting a divorce soon?

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RE: Prenups - 9/23/2011 10:51:00 AM

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I think you misunderstand, or I wasn't clear. His post nup is helping him, since his relatively short marriage is ending, and his primary assets are protected.

I had the world's most amicable divorce, so my feelings do not stem from being burned personally. I do freely admit, however, that being a lawyer has made me a cynic.

_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

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RE: Prenups - 9/23/2011 10:53:16 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet
Part of my reasoning is that having a prenup makes children from previous marriages much more accepting of the new spouse.

I actually didn't see this the first time I read it. All I can say is... what? So, a bitter 8 year old who is getting a new mommy is going to be more accepting of her because daddy's assets are protected? Do those thoughts enter an 8 year old's mind?

Maybe I have read this wrong. I am hoping I read it wrong.

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RE: Prenups - 9/23/2011 10:54:20 AM

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~FR~

if my SO orders me to jump off a bridge, all I can say is he had better be either hunted by Fed agencies.. or, the country is being overtaken by terrorists and thats the only way we can get away....

otherwise.. I'd tell him to bite my ass, then haul my own ass off the other way...

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RE: Prenups - 9/23/2011 10:59:26 AM

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Part of our disconnect here is the difference in our ages. I am 52. I am not referring to bitter 8 year olds, I am referring to bitter and suspicious 25 year olds, who think new step dad or mom is simply swooping in to steal daddy's (or mommy's) retirement. Seen it happen.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Amygdalin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet
Part of my reasoning is that having a prenup makes children from previous marriages much more accepting of the new spouse.

I actually didn't see this the first time I read it. All I can say is... what? So, a bitter 8 year old who is getting a new mommy is going to be more accepting of her because daddy's assets are protected? Do those thoughts enter an 8 year old's mind?

Maybe I have read this wrong. I am hoping I read it wrong.

_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

(in reply to Amygdalin)

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