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RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders - 10/18/2011 5:14:53 PM   
TheFireWithinMe


Posts: 1672
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From: The Depths of Hell
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quote:

ORIGINAL: windchymes


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheFireWithinMe

Oh I see, so you're wrong but not a word about that huh.




Oh gosh, mea maxima culpa, when scanning I mistook a slash mark for an ampersand. Is that what you wanted?


Just looking at my profile would have cleared it up.


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RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders - 10/18/2011 5:17:14 PM   
windchymes


Posts: 9410
Joined: 4/18/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheFireWithinMe


quote:

ORIGINAL: windchymes


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheFireWithinMe

Oh I see, so you're wrong but not a word about that huh.




Oh gosh, mea maxima culpa, when scanning I mistook a slash mark for an ampersand. Is that what you wanted?


Just looking at my profile would have cleared it up.



There was nothing to clear up. I explained it.

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RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders - 10/18/2011 5:21:33 PM   
HeatherMcLeather


Posts: 2559
Joined: 5/21/2011
From: The dog house
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quote:

why not start another thread to argue this out
As you wish.

http://www.collarchat.com/m_3888297/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm#3888297

(in reply to barelynangel)
Profile   Post #: 303
RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders - 10/18/2011 5:22:59 PM   
NocturnalStalker


Posts: 3858
Joined: 12/4/2010
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quote:

and even once that we are really all NS


No doubt one of the best compliments you have all received.


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RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders - 10/18/2011 5:27:31 PM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		Thank you Heather.

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Profile   Post #: 305
RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders - 10/18/2011 6:07:17 PM   
ChatteParfaitt


Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline 		Excuse the very fuck out of me, that they are in public not private school is an issue. Students should have the same constitutional rights as adults when it comes to freedom of speech.

Their freedom of speech was abridged by the public school, in my opinion. Nothing else really matters, you can talk dogma all you want. The freedom of speech of the cheerleaders was curtailed by a school system that in my opinion does not have that authority.

You can argue this point with me all you wish, unless you have some additional legal arguments, we shall have to agree to disagree.


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RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders - 10/18/2011 6:15:29 PM   
xxblushesxx


Posts: 9318
Joined: 11/3/2005
From: Kentucky
Status: offline 		They do legally have the authority to make a dress code. What makes you think they don't?

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RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders - 10/18/2011 6:22:39 PM   
nancygirl34652


Posts: 291
Joined: 3/10/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather

quote:

Nothing I say/said is/was going to make a difference regardless.
Why would it, as I have said nothing said by those on your side amounts to more than "because I said so!", it takes more than that to make me reconsider a position.



This is what i sometimes don't understand here.....can't people just state their opinion like you do? no one is trying to make anyone reconsider or change their mind.....i thought discussion was just that....discussing personal opinions....not debating a point to try to make you think differently or make me feel differently?

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RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders - 10/18/2011 6:24:41 PM   
ChatteParfaitt


Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline 		Try Googling that. You will find tons of case law where the schools rights to prohibit dress has been curtailed. Tinker vs Des Moines is a landmark decision. That parents rarely follow up on their children's constitutional rights doesn't mean it should not be done.

It means community pressure keeps many people from doing what they know is right.

Big surprise there.


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RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders - 10/18/2011 6:25:40 PM   
xxblushesxx


Posts: 9318
Joined: 11/3/2005
From: Kentucky
Status: offline 		Are there also several in which the schools rights to maintain a certain dress code was upheld?

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Profile   Post #: 310
RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders - 10/18/2011 6:39:30 PM   
xxblushesxx


Posts: 9318
Joined: 11/3/2005
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: nancygirl34652


quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather

quote:

Nothing I say/said is/was going to make a difference regardless.
Why would it, as I have said nothing said by those on your side amounts to more than "because I said so!", it takes more than that to make me reconsider a position.



This is what i sometimes don't understand here.....can't people just state their opinion like you do? no one is trying to make anyone reconsider or change their mind.....i thought discussion was just that....discussing personal opinions....not debating a point to try to make you think differently or make me feel differently?


I wouldn't have a problem with people just stating their opinions. Greedy and I often disagree on things but I still lubs her. It's when people start calling other people names or claiming because they're too old, too young or whatever they wouldn't understand...

Name calling and stuff like that is not just having a discussion. Hell, I went from MILF to old biddy in this very thread. Now if you'll excuse me, I must go soak my dentures.

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RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders - 10/18/2011 7:02:23 PM   
shallowdeep


Posts: 343
Joined: 9/1/2006
From: California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

Their freedom of speech was abridged by the public school, in my opinion. Nothing else really matters, you can talk dogma all you want. The freedom of speech of the cheerleaders was curtailed by a school system that in my opinion does not have that authority.

You can argue this point with me all you wish, unless you have some additional legal arguments, we shall have to agree to disagree.

This particular incident might well fall into a gray area, but while you may believe that students in a school setting should have the same rights as adults, that doesn't have much bearing on the fact that, for better or worse, they legally do not in the United States. The Supreme Court has repeatedly held that schools have the authority to curtail the speech of students under certain circumstances, writing, "the constitutional rights of students in public school are not automatically coextensive with the rights of adults in other settings." Here's a quick Wikipedia overview. In particular, there's established precedent for barring speech containing sexual innuendo that might reasonably be deemed offensive or disruptive in a high school setting (Bethel Sch. Dist. v. Fraser, 478 U.S. 675).

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RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders - 10/18/2011 7:09:40 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

Excuse the very fuck out of me, that they are in public not private school is an issue. Students should have the same constitutional rights as adults when it comes to freedom of speech.

Their freedom of speech was abridged by the public school, in my opinion. Nothing else really matters, you can talk dogma all you want. The freedom of speech of the cheerleaders was curtailed by a school system that in my opinion does not have that authority.

You can argue this point with me all you wish, unless you have some additional legal arguments, we shall have to agree to disagree.



So by your theory, the students have the right to say, fuck, shit, cunt, tit, asshole and every other dirty word walking down the halls because that otherwise it violates their freedom of speech.

Please. At least have a grasp of understand the law before you start spouting off what laws are violated or not.

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Profile   Post #: 313
RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders - 10/18/2011 7:13:49 PM   
NocturnalStalker


Posts: 3858
Joined: 12/4/2010
Status: offline 		Freedom is just a nice way of saying anarchy.  You'll never have freedom.

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RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders - 10/18/2011 7:20:11 PM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		The problem with googling is you come across what you did, Wikipedia and you read the first part but you may want to read what some of the Amendments and the cases involved to that ruling have been.  You may find yourself surprised that the schools have more control than you imply based on Tinker.  And the case was against Des Moines Independent School District, not Des Moines.  Des Moines is a city, this was a very specific entity that was a  party to this case.


And i hate to disappoint you but public schools all over TN have implimented dresscodes for the students, i know other states have also done this.  Many students in TN aren't allow to wear shirts with sayings on them, they have to wear certain colors, and have to wear a certain type of pants and shirts. 

angel

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What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
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Profile   Post #: 315
RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders - 10/18/2011 7:23:04 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

The problem with googling is you come across what you did, Wikipedia and you read the first part but you may want to read what some of the Amendments and the cases involved to that ruling have been.  You may find yourself surprised that the schools have more control than you imply based on Tinker.  And the case was against Des Moines Independent School District, not Des Moines.  Des Moines is a city, this was a very specific entity that was a  party to this case.


And i hate to disappoint you but public schools all over TN have implimented dresscodes for the students, i know other states have also done this.  Many students in TN aren't allow to wear shirts with sayings on them, they have to wear certain colors, and have to wear a certain type of pants and shirts. 

angel


That would require an actual understanding of the law, angel. You and I both know the armchair legal authorities like her, google one thing, read only the line that supports them, neglect the rest of the case as a whole, and never read the actual results.

Better to let them live with their delusions. More entertaining when they go to court and spout, "but your Honor, in case such and such," and have the judge tell them it is irrelevant.

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RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders - 10/18/2011 7:27:21 PM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		LOL, you know i almost posted an explanation about discretionary costs.  But decided "civic lessons" aren't the only lessons out there.

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 10/18/2011 7:28:19 PM >

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RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders - 10/18/2011 7:42:53 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

LOL, you know i almost posted an explanation about discretionary costs.  But decided "civic lessons" aren't the only lessons out there.


The students learned a big civic lesson. Before you spend booster money on something, get the school's approval. I've no doubt that little diddy is written down somewhere.

< Message edited by LafayetteLady -- 10/18/2011 7:43:06 PM >

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RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders - 10/18/2011 8:03:52 PM   
AneNoz


Posts: 263
Joined: 4/26/2011
Status: offline
quote:

Hell, I went from MILF to old biddy in this very thread.
This was by your choice and thus is not valid as a complaint. You have so named yourself. He who places the crown on his own brow can no more complain of its weight.

Further now to leave the foolishness to the fools and address the question in the thread. There is no questioning that the school of course is capable of making this ruling and has it within its rights. But in equal measure it is also beyond question that the decision as made was incorrect. It is for the puritanical nature of public America that this decision has been made. It comes to me as no surprise that the ones here who support this decision are to a one American, and that for the most those opposed are not. The culture of America is one of public repression and of a facade of moral uprightness. This can be seen in the primitive laws regarding prostitution.

Thus as the morality is a facade it is a lie, and from this reason, the decision that springs therefrom is as well a facade and it is a lie and thus it was incorrect and contrary to the intent and spirit of the nation.

Be at peace
Aneka

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Profile   Post #: 319
RE: Breast Cancer T-Shirts for Cheerleaders - 10/18/2011 8:04:29 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		my daughter's school had a dress code. She either followed it or could be suspended.

My work had a dress code. We had meetings on it every single week because someone wasn't wearing the correct attire which made the boss yell at us all and threaten us with being written up.

We could either follow the dress code or be fired.

I don't see how either of these have anything at all to do with freedom of speech. It's simply about there is a time and a place for everything and within private property...the school and my work....they can set up whatever rules they like. You either accept them or you don't and accept the consequences. Simple.




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