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A Dom who feels guilty about being one? - 11/5/2011 4:18:26 AM

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I was recently asked a question.

A woman keeps running across men who are uncomfortable with their Dom side. As in, "I'm a good man, but I have a bad side, or underbelly."

She's wondering if it's a safety issue as she explores her masochistic side. I feel that this could actually be a positive as a sadist who feels conflicted will likely not go too far.

The other aspect is that outside of play, a conflicted Dom IMO may not be assertive enough for a sub. Then again, we can't all be as unconflicted as Kana, for example.

Any thoughts? Are you aware of any book, or site, that addresses the conflicted Dom?

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RE: A Dom who feels guilty about being one? - 11/5/2011 4:38:10 AM

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I think this conflict probably isn't all the rare, however just not talked about. Honestly, it might not even be the fact that he is Dominant that causes the issue it could be the fact that he is doing perverted things that bothers him.

Anything that is NOT accepted as a whole by society can cause conflict within.

I've known a few Dominant men in my time who have had this issue. In most cases they took some time away, came back with a greater understanding of themselves or simply decided that the lifestyle was not for them and gave it up.

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RE: A Dom who feels guilty about being one? - 11/5/2011 5:17:05 AM

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I need my partner to own his kink. If he says he has a dark side as a way to break the ice, that's one thing, but if he truly feels bad/ashamed, that's not healthy emotionally and I want no part of it.

In additional to emotional conflicts, this might also indicate that he lacks knowledge and time in the local scene, which would also be negatives.

I took a guy's BDSM cherry once and he had a major guilt attack afterwards, which was quite unpleasant. I've seen this pattern before: lust, lust, lust > orgasm > shame.

It's not pretty. I'm left thinking WTF, who ARE you? What happened to that other guy I was just fucking?

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RE: A Dom who feels guilty about being one? - 11/5/2011 5:20:55 AM

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Probably one of my most prevalent conversations I have regarding D/s is with women who are married and attempting to persuade their partners to be more Dom / Sadistic towards them.

The primary issues appear to be either that the men aren’t strong enough mentally to stand up to them and dominate, on deeper exploration this does often appear to be related to social pressurise to not appear to be sexist in their approaches.

I think the sadistic side is also very often scuppered by social pressure. The act of hurting a woman can be a considerable hurdle to get over. Especially when it is someone that you inherently care for. There is sometimes a very strong barrier of 'but I can't hurt you because I love you'

I have personally experienced some of that taboo pressure. A while ago I played with a girl and explored physical aspects of abuse (obviously consensual). With the intention to push the feelings of it being physically abusive violence rather than just D/s S&M. I found the switch in intention a difficult thing to do, I found it a fascinating experience because of the taboos it was breaking, and because of how difficult it was simply punch a woman!

From that I can very much understand how some men would struggle to begin the steps into this world.

< Message edited by DomThoughts -- 11/5/2011 5:26:27 AM >

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RE: A Dom who feels guilty about being one? - 11/5/2011 5:26:36 AM

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quote:

Are you aware of any book, or site, that addresses the conflicted Dom?

Probably any S&M 101 book would help. It's been a while, but what about "The Loving Dominant" or "The Topping Book?" Anything that stresses consensual sadism /= abuse.

(in reply to DarkSteven)

RE: A Dom who feels guilty about being one? - 11/5/2011 7:14:32 AM

lizi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

I was recently asked a question.

A woman keeps running across men who are uncomfortable with their Dom side. As in, "I'm a good man, but I have a bad side, or underbelly."

She's wondering if it's a safety issue as she explores her masochistic side. I feel that this could actually be a positive as a sadist who feels conflicted will likely not go too far.

The other aspect is that outside of play, a conflicted Dom IMO may not be assertive enough for a sub. Then again, we can't all be as unconflicted as Kana, for example.

Any thoughts? Are you aware of any book, or site, that addresses the conflicted Dom?

I know this is slightly off your topic question DS and to answer that question first, no, I don't know of any reference materials for the conflicted Dom, but your snapshot of this type of person bothered me, so I went about my daily business till I figured out why.

A couple of random things... I wouldn't be compatible with such a person since I embrace myself pretty much as I am. I can see the conflict within such a person where the prevalent rules of society would dictate someone not doing harm to another. I don't think someone like you either would want a woman to be your submissive, and also conflicted about her role. There's just that extra angst to deal with and I am notoriously anti-drama. Plus I don't think it's a healthy self-image, and I'd stay away from people that didn't accept themselves warts and all.

You say that you think it might be a positive thing for a masochist to be with a conflicted type Dom, I'm not sure. I can see why you're saying that, but in general if he's putting this part of himself into a box and locking it away, if this isn't really him as he thinks himself to be....well then I can almost see the Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde thing going on to allow himself release. When you give over to the other person living inside of you sometimes I think that person can do more harm because it's not really you.

Maybe that's an extreme case, however, think of the person who blames his or her reprehensible actions of the night before on the bottle instead of themselves. Sometimes when you disassociate something from yourself, you give it more power to do the things that secretly you want to do and then it's easier to say gosh, that wasn't really me. It becomes a suit of clothing that you put on and take off at will and not an integrated and accepted part of yourself that you live with everyday and are comfortable with. That part is what was bugging me till I reasoned out why.

A conflicted Dom may not be assertive enough for a sub in day to day actions, and then when he lets the Dom out to play it might unleash something. I'd be more afraid of this scenario and frustrated...because I'd not be getting the D/s structure as a regular thing, but when I got it, then it might be overload. I just think the on again/off again thing would be extremely frustrating to be a part of and cause a lot of relationship issues.

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RE: A Dom who feels guilty about being one? - 11/5/2011 7:28:22 AM

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from my own experience of dating men who call themselves "doms" the majority of those I met from off of kink sites were conflicted, uncomfortable with that side of themselves. It came from growing up and being told it was bad to hit a woman or he grew up in a family of women where they were they dominant species.

Those doms rarely ever went beyond the first cup of coffee. I'm not about to teach someone to be dominant.

I had better luck with men who simply are a dominant personality, I didn't meet from a kink site and were comfortable in their own skin.

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RE: A Dom who feels guilty about being one? - 11/5/2011 7:32:06 AM

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A lot of men (most, if not all, at least here in the US) have grown up hearing "you don't hit girls, no matter what they do." Some of them also want to still seem like they're "progressive" and "modern" while still finding a healthy way to express the site of them that wants to dominate and control.

It's not really uncommon. I've met some people on FL who were like this, if I made a post talking about how I like punching and rough body play. I get messages saying "I don't know if I could ever do that" from guys who, for whatever reason, found the post intriguing.

Even in my last relationship, I kind of "encouraged" him to punch me somewhere on my body, by balling his hand up and tapping myself with it. Talking about it and making him aware that it was something I liked, and I wouldn't think badly of him for doing it. =p And he did own his kink and had a VERY strong Dominant personality; in fact it was his fault that I got into it. =p But sometimes, some men still need encouragement; just like I might need encouragement before doing something humiliating. I don't really see it as a lack of dominance or a lack of assertiveness -- everyone has grey areas that they are conflicted on.

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RE: A Dom who feels guilty about being one? - 11/5/2011 7:34:34 AM

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I'm actually a little surprised by the negative responses to the fact that someone has been conflicted over what they want. To my mind it is far preferable for someone starting down this road to be conflicted about what turns them on, than not to be (wouldn't that be psychopathic?)

Can any of us reading this honestly say they have never had a moments conflict about wanting to do the things we do? Many here have always known they've wanted something 'different' in arriving where we are now, there have been self-questions.

I have certainly taken great pleasure on occasion from exploiting the lust > orgasm > shame (guilt) process in a submissive. That doesn't mean they aren't submissive, it just means they at a stage where they are still developing that aspect of their sexuality.

Maybe I've read it wrong, but it seems hugely disrespectful towards someone who is newly approaching this and unsure of their footing. Surely a little guidance and 'hey, it's fine to be conflicted, its natural, you'll figure it out, and find YOUR path in time'

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RE: A Dom who feels guilty about being one? - 11/5/2011 7:38:56 AM

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exactly; i agree with you, DomThoughts -- many sub women come in feeling conflicted (especially growing up under the umbrella of feminism) and no one says such negative things to them. it's okay for women to be "complex," but a chink in the armor for a man spells certain doom. =p

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RE: A Dom who feels guilty about being one? - 11/5/2011 8:40:35 AM

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quote:

think of the person who blames his or her reprehensible actions of the night before on the bottle instead of themselves.

Or blames their partner. No thanks to guilt/shame projected on me.

(in reply to lizi)

RE: A Dom who feels guilty about being one? - 11/5/2011 8:42:19 AM

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quote:

it's okay for women to be "complex," but a chink in the armor for a man spells certain doom. =p

I'm happy to mentor a person of any gender who is conflicted, but it would exclude them as a partner.

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RE: A Dom who feels guilty about being one? - 11/5/2011 8:53:09 AM

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I was conflicted for a moment the first time my Dommely feelings arose; fortunately for me and for all my subsequent partners, it only lasted a moment until he knelt ;-)

On the flip side, we see a lot of sub males who are conflicted about being sub.
And same, I'm not interested in a D/s relationship with someone who is conflicted; I don't want anyone flipping out or feeling guilty or twitchy-switchy.

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RE: A Dom who feels guilty about being one? - 11/5/2011 9:35:45 AM

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Master says he was conflicted when he first started. He felt like he had found where he belonged, but it went against all of his environmental red tapes. He finally came to terms with the fact that he could be a dominant sadist and still be a good person. (I went through much the same thing to determine that accepting the submissive role in a relationship didn't lessen my worth)

Enter....well...me. In his own words he will tell you that he knew very quickly that I was his lobster. (We had been friends for 3 years prior) We played and had blast, but once we got married the play stopped. He finally told me that he felt so protective towards me that he was having a hard time hurting me. We worked through it together, we just kept focusing on the fact that "hurting" me wasn't the same as harming me.

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RE: A Dom who feels guilty about being one? - 11/7/2011 6:20:57 AM

Kana

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I just wanna point out that it took years of conflict for this boy to become so unconflicted.

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RE: A Dom who feels guilty about being one? - 11/7/2011 6:41:11 AM

lizi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

I just wanna point out that it took years of conflict for this boy to become so unconflicted.

So how did you do it then?

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RE: A Dom who feels guilty about being one? - 11/7/2011 7:23:20 AM

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I would very much enjoy a lengthy description of your journey.

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RE: A Dom who feels guilty about being one? - 11/7/2011 9:01:44 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

I just wanna point out that it took years of conflict for this boy to become so unconflicted.

Kana,

I figured that would be your response, pretty much mine too. It wasnt until i had been seeing someone amazing from CM that i finally found the acceptance and understanding of that side of myself. It was finding tbe yin to my yang was what allowed me to see it all in another light.

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RE: A Dom who feels guilty about being one? - 11/7/2011 9:44:08 AM

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If a guy with little or no experience isn't conflicted about this I'd advise her to not get involved. That screams sociopath to me.

Boys are taught from toddlers on up that the worst thing they can do is hit a girl. Of course it takes a while to overcome that conditioning. To add to it the exception: unless she wants him to. Because talking about consent requires a lot more maturity than just setting up strict rules for kids to abide by.

How you get from here to there involves having a partner who owns his or her own desires and encourages him by responding enthusiastically to any small attempts and being patient until he's gone as far as he wants to go. It is however difficult to be encouraging without also giving orders. You can teach without being in charge, but at least one of the two needs to know how to accomplish this. And usually that's the problem. That the bottom tries to turn him into her perfect dominant rather than encouraging him or her to grow into his own desires.

Pronouns are for male dom, female subs because it got too unwieldy to write it gender neutral.

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RE: A Dom who feels guilty about being one? - 11/7/2011 10:56:22 AM

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~fast reply~

To me "bad side" doesn't read as "dominant", it reads as BAD. My dark side is plenty dark, it lives on its own, and isn't related to being dominant, it's related to being capable of Really Bad Things. Those things are not going to happen.

As a woman, I never had that "bad to hit boys", conditioning, because LADIES NEVER HIT. It took me awhile to accept the term SADIST for myself, that the "icky", loaded label was really for me, and did not mean that I tortured baby animals or assaulted people on the street for kicks. Still, I did many consensual sadistic things before I took the title.

I am who I am, and I accept that it's not a mainstream thing. I dig kink. I wouldn't feel authentic engaging with other kinky people, let alone attempting to dominate, if I didn't feel that way.

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