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RE: The Transgender Thread - 11/20/2011 5:44:05 AM

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Cherylmazana, you have hit a very intriguing question with regard to the way some Drag Queens dress and wear make up.

I say drag Queens, because I have rarely seen MtF transgender people dress so appallingly.

There are the exceptions, like being those who are first starting putting their feet in the water. However from my experience someone is always kind enough to pull a transgender person under their wing and give them tips of what to clothing and make up to wear and what not to wear.

Now, I offer my opinion coming from the Media Production side of my life.

Exaggerated make up and clothing is a good thing in a TV studio or on a stage. The extra make up and flamboyant clothing is great for the lighting, the camera or for a concert hall with lots of seating.

But an “Actress/Actor” who applies their own make up, may not understand that concept and be inclined to do the same application for their outings.

If you have a met a transgender person who wears such exaggerated make and clothing, I wonder if they learned their techniques from someone in media production.

< Message edited by PolyDommesgirl -- 11/20/2011 5:53:58 AM >

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RE: The Transgender Thread - 11/20/2011 6:04:40 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cherylmazana

Hi hausboy, I never realised that f/m go through a period of puberty, it might explain some of the things that really irritate people when they meet though. Men who act like stupid teenagers really irritate most women, if you see an adult man on a skateboard you’re going to think idiot and possibly midlife crisis. That’s enough to make most people stay clear on its own.

The transsexuals I met were m/f their dress sense was appalling, it ranged between night out to porn star and their makeup and hair was always full on evening night out. That was bad enough but the way they acted shouted CAMP!! Not female. Even when they looked very feminine you thought they were just very androgynous drag queens. Everything was exaggerated and I couldn’t ask them why as they were so defensive they would have taken it as an attack.

I have friends who wear medieval dress everywhere, you constantly get people laughing and pointing wherever they go, and you expect that considering their dress. But if you want to be accepted as a woman you have to fit in (sad but true). And people might be doing double takes and laughing at the dress sense not the person.

So anyone willing to explain to me why some men during or after their transition to women want to dress like cheap hookers as that always really puzzled me. It was almost as if they took the worst way women are portrayed in the media and wanted to live that life. It might work for Dolly Parton who wanted to grow up looking like cheap trash and made a fortune doing it, but for most of us it really doesn’t work.

Cheryl

You know, it's probably because naturally born women are born as erm.. girls, and they go through childhood and teen years being raised as girls and are raised to be women. They tend to wear clothing on a daily basis. Throughout much of their childhood it's their parents who buy them clothes and then when they hit their teens they start to experiment and have not just advice and tips from parents and family but also friends, colour magazines, and stuff.

The difference is that M2F transsexuals don't get any of these opportunities because they are raised as.. erm.. boys they aren't encouraged to dress like girls and so it usually starts out in secret.

But then again why pick up on the fact that M2F transsexuals dress badly - why the double standard? You get women who dress like cheap hookers, overweight women who wear clothing a size or two too small, women who struggle with make up, who have problems matching colours, and so on.

Transitioning is just that, it's a journey, a learning process and unless you've got the support (and many don't have that support) you don't have much option but to work it out for yourself. This is why the process can take years because in among all that learning you also have some unlearning to do and while that takes place I guess most of us are a work in progress and not the finished product.

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RE: The Transgender Thread - 11/20/2011 6:11:39 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop
Peon, dearest.. Cheryl didn't insult Dolly!

Just read through these!: http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/d/dolly_parton.html

Ah, OK!

Hell, this one is apposite:

"It's a good thing I was born a girl, otherwise I'd be a drag queen."

Brill!

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RE: The Transgender Thread - 11/20/2011 6:12:19 AM

TheFireWithinMe

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quote:

The transsexuals I met were m/f their dress sense was appalling, it ranged between night out to porn star and their makeup and hair was always full on evening night out. That was bad enough but the way they acted shouted CAMP!! Not female. Even when they looked very feminine you thought they were just very androgynous drag queens. Everything was exaggerated and I couldn’t ask them why as they were so defensive they would have taken it as an attack.

That sounds like drag queens to me. Are you sure they were trans? Regardless it's hardly a trans thing, I've seen quite a few cis women who, when I looked at them, thought "what are they thinking?" including but not limited to older women who think they can pass for teen girls and dress as such.

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RE: The Transgender Thread - 11/20/2011 6:24:13 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheFireWithinMe
That sounds like drag queens to me. Are you sure they were trans? Regardless it's hardly a trans thing, I've seen quite a few cis women who, when I looked at them, thought "what are they thinking?" including but not limited to older women who think they can pass for teen girls and dress as such.

I've often thought that, despite having very little experience of dressing like a female, and none at all of being one, if I were to wake up tomorrow morning having turned into a woman during the night, I'd still make a better job of dressing and applying slap than many of the women I see around me in Bristol town centre.

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RE: The Transgender Thread - 11/20/2011 6:29:11 AM

xssve

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Oh fer chrissakes, I think the whole surgical addiction phenomena begins with narcissistic fashion nazi's.

Gimme camp and kitsch over snarky uberhip any day, it's fucking tedious.

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RE: The Transgender Thread - 11/20/2011 6:33:54 AM

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Stellauk
An awesome different perspective. Well thought through!

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RE: The Transgender Thread - 11/20/2011 6:57:56 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: xssve

Oh fer chrissakes, I think the whole surgical addiction phenomena begins with narcissistic fashion nazi's.

Gimme camp and kitsch over snarky uberhip any day, it's fucking tedious.

then go to some drag shows!!!

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RE: The Transgender Thread - 11/20/2011 7:03:07 AM

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I will admit to dressing a bit over the top sometimes...I mean...after all we ARE kinky people too. In a BDSM club I can ROCK OUT my Bon Jovi groupie outfit...and I've got the legs for it. :P

< Message edited by OttersSwim -- 11/20/2011 7:04:56 AM >

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RE: The Transgender Thread - 11/20/2011 8:06:35 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OttersSwim

I will admit to dressing a bit over the top sometimes...I mean...after all we ARE kinky people too. In a BDSM club I can ROCK OUT my Bon Jovi groupie outfit...and I've got the legs for it. :P

PICS!! WANT PICS!!! *grins*

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RE: The Transgender Thread - 11/20/2011 8:44:36 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: xssve

Oh fer chrissakes, I think the whole surgical addiction phenomena begins with narcissistic fashion nazi's.

Gimme camp and kitsch over snarky uberhip any day, it's fucking tedious.

Hmmm. Aside from the hint of my being an uberhip fashion nazi (I'm still trying to pull my eyebrows down from the ceiling at that!), I have some sympathy for that view.

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RE: The Transgender Thread - 11/20/2011 8:59:04 AM

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wait.. you have eyebrows?

*ducks n runs*

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RE: The Transgender Thread - 11/20/2011 9:04:18 AM

HeatherMcLeather

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Heather's choice for the
Sunny's Quote of the day
goes to
PeonForHer

for this very timely reminder of the realities of realpolitik:

For God's sake, Cheryl - you know most of the readers here are American? And you've just insulted Dolly Parton! You know the Yanks have aircraft carriers that still have real fighter aircraft on them, don't you?

(in reply to PeonForHer)

RE: The Transgender Thread - 11/20/2011 9:05:11 AM

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wow! what?

sheesh

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RE: The Transgender Thread - 11/20/2011 9:42:45 AM

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An interesting interview with female to male transgender persons.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=XDuXe82SElE

_____________________________

Many women love an eloquently worded sentence regarding the beauty of a Tiger Lily. Many men see a flower.

Many men see an award winning, 400 HP, 4L, European styled 911, Many women see a car.

I am blessed with the ability to translate.

(in reply to GreedyTop)

RE: The Transgender Thread - 11/20/2011 10:15:06 AM

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I want to thank everybody, well almost everybody, for this thread. I have a friend Louise who is transgender (MtF) who has come out to myself and a very few other people. She is 17 and struggles with her issue on a daily basis and has already attempted suicide three times, and has been very deeply depressed lately and talking in a way that has all her friends worried she may try again. I sent her the link to this thread. She just called me back in tears thanking me for it, she says that you have all given her hope and a little more courage to carry on just a little longer (particularly hausboy). So, even with the negativity and bigotry displayed by some of the posters, at least one tragedy has been put off for the time being.

As difficult as being transgender is as an adult, it is important to remember that it can be even more so as an adolescent dealing with all the pressures of puberty, dating, high school, and the cruelty of teenagers alone. There are almost no supports for teenaged TG people in place, and I personally think that a good number of the otherwise unexplained teen suicides can be attributed to GID and other transgender issues.

You should also know that Louise will be sharing the link with the few other TG people she knows, so you are reaching, helping, and inspiring people who didn't even know this site existed.

Again, on behalf of myself, Louise, and others, I thank you.

Cherisse G.

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RE: The Transgender Thread - 11/20/2011 11:43:29 AM

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Thanks Cherisse....
and see if you can get her in touch with either a local support group or PFLAG which has been very supportive of TG groups.
Also...tell her to watch that whole youtube thing called : "It gets better" The "it gets better" project is a video project to help LGBT teens cope. www.itgetsbetter.org
I encourage everyone to go to this site and just watch some of the videos.

As for the fashion issue:
bad fashion is an epidemic that affects everyone.
the problem is that on a TG woman, it's just that much more apparent. I went to a formal Christmas ball sponsored by TGEA, a TG education alliance in Northern Virginia. You saw everything from women in full length ball gowns to little sexy black dresses to business pant suits..... to.....slutty teeny bopper look. I sat a table with a friend who (self-ID'd as a crossdresser at the time, I heard she since transitioned) I kid you not, sat with my wife and the two of them must have critiqued every woman in that place!

Some of the women had never learned how to properly put on makeup--it inspired one local woman to invite a TG friendly Avon lady who gave in-services (and discounts) at a local MTF support group. My ex-wife owned a dress shop, and when the occasional MTF came in, she would personally work with them to ensure that the clothing fit properly and was flattering. On the guys side, we often have to teach new guys how to shave, mens' hygiene issues, how to tie a tie....things that we may not have learned growing up. We also do a bit of "fashion" advice--mostly, explaining the differences between mens and women's clothing, how to get fitted for a suit (most FTMs learn the "hard way" what it means when the tailor asks if you wear right or left, lol)....guys in early transition or who are cross-living without hormones, sometimes need help on how to wear their clothing and hair so that it looks more male to help them pass.
For FTMs, once they are on hormones awhile, it doesn't matter anymore. they can wear a pink tutu and they'll look like a man in a tutu...whatever makes him happy!
Similarly, having the same conversation at a national FTM conference--a group of guys were planning an intervention to help men with bad fashion choices.

(in reply to SweetCheri)

RE: The Transgender Thread - 11/20/2011 11:55:26 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PolyDommesgirl

An interesting interview with female to male transgender persons.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=XDuXe82SElE

Thanks for sharing this PDsGirl...
Patrick was one of my closest friends when I lived in SF, he was one of the first people to help me safely explore by 'boy" side, he took me to Loren Cameron's TG photo exhibit for my 23rd birthday....love him dearly. His former partner, Matthew Rice, was the first FTM I had ever met...without him, I would have had a much longer, rocky road.

Patrick, by the way, is one of the most prolific (and hot) BDSM porn writers. He's written a lot of totally hot BDSM fiction, and has also written a number of books ranging from BDSM safety, sex politics, transgenderism and leather community issues. His SM books are a must have for any and every kinky library.

< Message edited by hausboy -- 11/20/2011 11:56:28 AM >

(in reply to PolyDommesgirl)

RE: The Transgender Thread - 11/20/2011 11:58:17 AM

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Thanks for sharing that...

If ever there was a song that captures the essence of the experience and the thinking then it would be Christina Aguilera - Beautiful

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RE: The Transgender Thread - 11/20/2011 12:04:38 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: stellauk

Thanks for sharing that...

If ever there was a song that captures the essence of the experience and the thinking then it would be Christina Aguilera - Beautiful

But....but...THIS is my song!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Bs6QT82Tu4

Joan Jett has a leather pride sticker on the back of one of her guitars...FYI....
gawd I lust after her! WWJJD

(in reply to stellauk)

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